+ 81 Causes and Solutions to PIP problems
I figured i'd share this information that helped me get through the extreme pip i had with some over concentrated gear. I constantly see posts and questions about dealing with this, so heres the information that helped me.
What causes (non infection related) injection pain?
first the shorter the ester, the higher the melting point
secind, the concentration of the gear.
third, the solvents used.
fourth, injecting too quickly
fifth, virgin muscle.
Pain is caused when the oil/solvents are absorbed by the body and crystals are left behind.
Short esters (propionate or acetate) are harder, more painful crystals with melting points in the 100c range.
A hormone with a longer esters (excluding cypionate - cyp is long but also high melting point) can have a melting point in the 20c-40c range. not far off from human body temp.
Pain is also caused by concentration of your gear.
Building off of point 1: Let's say it takes the body 24 hours to absorb 1mL of a certain oil/solvent blend, and 24 hours to absorb 50mg of Testosterone Propionate. If 50mg (or less) of testosterone propionate is in 1mL of that oil, this injection should be painless. On the other hand, if 100mg of testosterone propionate is in that same 1mL of solution, then after 24 hours the body will have absorbed 50mg and 1mL, leaving 50mg behind in the injection area, crystalized and painful.
Its better to shoot 3mL of 50mg/mL Testosterone Propionate than 1mL of 150mg/mL Testosterone Propionate.
This is also why water based suspensions (Testosterone base/no ester, Winstrol ) hurt the most, water is very easily absorbed in the body
The solvents used can cause pain in 2 ways. Benzyl alcohol (BA) is used at 1%-2% as a preservative and antiseptic. If the alcohol content is too high the gear will burn. Pain in the first 24 hours is usually caused by heavy solvents, pain in the next few hours is usually cause by crystalization. Another way is a bad recipe. if someone used 2% BA, and the rest of the solution oil, the mg/mL would have to be low due to oil's weak ability to hold crystals. On the other hand, a recipe like 2% BA, 5% Guaiacol (super solvent), 10% Benzyl Salicylate (liquid asprin) with the filler split 50:50 between Ethyl Oleate (oil/solvent hybrid) and normal oil should be far less painful.
If you inject too quickly it can tear tissue.
If your muscle is new to the hormone, it will absorb the hormone very slowly, but absorb the oil/solvent very quickly. This will cause more crystalization and pain. As your muscles recognize the hormones, they will be absorbed more quickly, thus less pain. The deeper you inject into the center of a muscle group, the better.
How do I prevent pain before I inject?
Cut your shots 50:50 with sterile filtered oil. If you want to use 50mg of Testosterone Propionate, and you have 100mg/mL Testosterone Propionate- pull 0.5mL of your test prop, and 0.5mL of sterile filtered oil to shoot 1mL of 50mg/mL Testosterone Propionate. This is the #1 best way.
Dont bother with b-12, its water based- absorbed so quickly it will have little to no impact.
Before you shoot, it can help to warm your gear some (especially suspensions). You could put the vial in the bathroom sink and let hot water run over the vial for 2 minutes, and shake well. This will lower the oils viscosity also making it easier it pull into the syringe.
Inject slowly, take 30 seconds per mL. Use a 25g pin to inject so it forces you to move slowly.
If none of these work you could have dirty gear. Its possible there could be particles (although bacteriostatic) in the gear that are not causing infection, but still cause in site infection that made it through a filter.
How do I deal with pain once I have it?
The worst thing you can do is ice it. Cold will help the crystals fall out of solution/suspension.
Its okay to take some ibuprofin to decrease the swelling, and help with pain.
Also being in a hot tub, or jacuzzi, or warm bubble bath will help melt the crystals down. Using a heating pad can help also.
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That really sucks brother, what was the concentration of that DHB?
It was only 100mg/mL. Just normal BA and BB though. I think you need super solvents for a heavy molecule like DHB. I’m still recovering from it. My whole left side had fluid under the skin as it started to drain down. Literally 10 days of puffy pain. Oh well. On to the next. Lol.
oh fuck, hope you didn't buy a big stash, if so maybe one of the experts can chime in and see if you could manually add some BO or something to the vials. DHB is a tempting compound, it looks on paper like if primo and tren fucked and had a child LOL.
I shot 3CC of cold primo from the car i left it in overnight in cold weather oh boy I had a mouse for a week. Took almost 4-5 mins to send it through a 25ga. Sat on it on an 8hr car ride and it turned into a flat line. never again.
Just a couple bottles left. After my competition I’m going to try some guaiacol to see if I can get it in solution. It’s like stalagmites on the bottom.
So, quick question I believe my 400mg/ml test e shot has crystallised in my quad. Large hard lump. Pain for 5-6 days and above average heat to the touch, same result with other leg and heated. I have been jacuzzing and have ordered some new sterile oil but can you tell me your thoughts on whether the crystallised gear is now wasted or if it will still be broken down in my body but a lot slower etc?
I think slower absorption.
nice, Thank you.
I hit a wrong spot 4 days n from my ago. A little too high on the thigh. maybe I hit a nerve. 4inches down from the hip and one inch back. real bad. ive done hundreds of shots, I'm a little embarrassed I fcked up this bad. 4 days and it still hurts. 300mg/ml test e. I hit something that didn't like being poked and injected with oil.
Great info,thank you.
Good info, I'm using high concentrate test I know its clean but the high MG is really noticeable ill try warming it a bit in the sink
YouShouldGetWha...Pip is fuck all for me tbh, if anything the worst it feels is like a hard work out which psychologicaly makes me feel better because I feel like I’m achieving.
Worst pip ever though was tren ace, injected in pec and by god it felt like I’d injected acid. In glutes not so bad but still not great.
JayD718I think it's important to always use a 22 gauge pin when injecting an oily solution I.M., especially in the ass or thigh. If the oily solution doesn't flow into your muscle smoothly, in can cause PIP problems. With water based solutions, I like to use a 23 gauge pin, but it's pretty much to each is own.
DobermannI always change the needle to a fresh one and rarely get PIP
YouShouldGetWha...Green for draw, blue for pin?
I use 22g is this a problem?
other than rapid scar tissue buildup, it isn't a problem.
Definitely hit it on the head. Pip is a bitch but these methods work.
also I have Read that heating up the substance in your hand for a while makes it much smoother going in
PlayaYes but you gotta watch it. I’ve heard you can mess up your gear if you heat it up to much.
You would really have to cook the shit out of it to mess it up, which likely isn't going to happen unless you are putting it directly on a bunsen burner.
Boom^^^^
This is true! But your hand could only heat ut to 98.6 or 1-2 degrees higher if your cycling and turned up a notch:-) .test is sterilszed at 160 for 1 hour. So no need to worry if only using your hand.just the way i see it.
Thanks for sharing! I learn something new everyday here.
I mix high-concentration gear like 400-500mg/ml with low-concentration gear (like 50mg/ml) and it usually takes care of PIP caused by overconcentrated gear. For example 400mg/ml blend of Test E (200mg/ml) and Deca (200mg/ml) mixed with 50mg/ml Deca.
To shoot slowly does help even though my wife being a registered nurse doesn't do exactly that :-) she usually shoots 2 mL in about 5-7 seconds.... no major issues though.....
,
Great post, alot of info here ,thank you.
principlegood post. thanks
Thats an awesome explenation of why you get pip thanks
Awesome!!! Thanks
For the light cycles, I use an insulin needle an shoot subdermal in .20cc increments. No PIP shooting in 3-4 locations EOD. Works fine with Tren, Mast, Test P, Test E.
juiceddafuckoutI run the syringe loaded under warm water ,this helps with pip also stop being pussies might help ..
Alot of good info thanks for the post.
toto34Thank you for this post! Really interesting
SlamhamsGood advice about the melting points.
One question I had has to do with pharmaceutical test cyp - I assume it's much more unlikely to experience PIP with pharmaceutical grade gear than others, but how often do people experience it with this? Also if you do get it with pharm grade is this something you would want to mix/dilute with sterile oil or just heat it, go slow and chalk it up to virgin muscle?
I have never gotten pip from pharmacy grade test cypionate. I'm on TRT and get it from Wal-Mart. Never had an issue with it.
Very good read!! Thanks
good advice here.....
Great read, good info. I never noticed a correlation with injection pain and type of the steroid. I have had different reactions from the same brand between two bottles. This actually recently happened where the first bottle went fine but the second one I ended up with deposits thay took days to come down. Im.actually thinking there was something wrong with that one though. I don't really specifically remember past gear except for one that I'll never forget, it was a Test 500 like 13 years ago and I remember it because the pain was unreal and then the last bottle of it I had stored ended up developing crystals inside of it looking like rock candy. Years ago I always thought that the more painful the stronger it was which finally I learned that's not the case. Then I thought it meant there's alot of alcohol in it.
Most oils can only contain about 300-350 mg per cc. A solution containing 500mg per cc is heavily over concentrated and will cause pain. This is the reason it separated. If you heated it up it should have mixed back together.
Anyone used Pharmacom test phenylpropionate?The pip it s giving me is really painful.Im starting thinking of changing esther-brand too!!!
Your post should read:
redneckfreakThanks for the info mate
Thanks for the info. Have gotten a lot of good tips on here, and at this stage I'm pretty sure that my PIP is down to the concentration of the gear, as there is no skin irritation and warm showers definitely help the swelling, albeit temporarily.
What I am trying to figure out though, is the impact that exercise would have on the crystallisation and rate of absorption? I am only 2 shots into my cycle (Test-E & Deca), but in both cases I didn't get any PIP until after I worked the muscle group (glutes) - between 12-24 hours after injecting. There was no pain in the first 12 hours prior to working out, so I am trying to determine what impact this has had, and how it works?
Some people say that working the muscle group immediately after injecting reduces the potential for PIP by promoting higher muscle temps, melted crystals, and smoother absorption across a larger area. But if this is the case, then why does delayed exercise have the 'opposite' effect of crystallising the solution and causing pain? Could it be the case that without immediate exercise, the solution stays localised and absorbs very slowly with a consistent muscle temp, and that working the muscle at a later time promotes rapid fluctuations in temperature, which in turn affects crystallisation, absorption, and ultimately pain? Could it be that working the muscle immediately establishes a smoother, wider, and more consistent rate of absorption, and thus reduces PIP?
I just want to figure out whether an immediate workout will make things better or worse. The amount of 'official' websites out there which barely mention PIP or how to avoid it is astonishing.
Ps: I can also attest to the efficacy of Arnica Cream or Gel. It's a hippy option to be sure, but it is great for inflammation. Hippies do get some stuff right..
Pip sets in 1or 2 days later after injection. You probably would of had more pip if you didn't work out the muscle. I always find out that working out the muscle I pinned the same day helps with pip, especially quads.
Hi I just started the third cylce of my life. I am 39 years old, my first cycle was when I was 19 my second was an 8 week test cyp cycle that I finished 8 weeks ago.
The last thursday I started a test prop cycle. My first shot was Thursday in my right quad and second was Friday in my left quad. I have not taken any since. Both legs god pip, but my right was far worse. There is no discoloration but they are swollen. Hot baths have helped. At this point I dont know if I should continue or not. I switched to the prop because I read it doesnt retain as much water, but with the cyp there was never any pip at all. At this point im worried the gear isnt good, its geneza and verified. Or does the prop really just cause this much pip. Thank you
Hey man. Just wanted to say thanks for the advice. I am half way through week 2 now, and my issues with PIP are definitely subsiding. I still got some PIP on my 2nd and 3rd Pins, but nowhere near as bad, and the 4th Pin was very smooth - almost no PIP at all.
It definitely seems to be a combination of some key factors: concentration of the gear, injection site & technique, virgin muscle groups, and post-injection exercise. Once you get your technique down, and your muscles have had a few shots, it no longer seems to be an issue. Of course working the muscle immediately afterwards makes a huge difference too; seems to aid in absorption and stop it seizing up from inflammation.
My experience has been that if you choose the right injection site, there should be virtually no pain or bleeding (at least on the glutes). So yeah, for anyone else who is curious - choosing the correct site, taking your time, and working the muscle afterwards makes a big difference. Still though, seems like everybody gets PIP the first few times; especially if it's super strong gear like mine.
6th, incorrect needle gauge.
7th Bad Technique.
8th Bad choice of pin site.
Eample = upper / outer Glute = Correct
Lower / inner Glute = Incorrect
awesome read thanks!!!
I recently started a cycle, Test E and Deca. Was from a source I trust a lot and whose products NEVER give me pip. Everything was going great
Then I got sick. Beginning pnuemonia. Was up northeast on my bike, cold and wet a lot.
Now, still sick but continuing my cycle, I'm getting pip like CRAZY. Not being able to walk normally level. What is going on? Any thoughts?