+ 81 Causes and Solutions to PIP problems
I figured i'd share this information that helped me get through the extreme pip i had with some over concentrated gear. I constantly see posts and questions about dealing with this, so heres the information that helped me.
What causes (non infection related) injection pain?
first the shorter the ester, the higher the melting point
secind, the concentration of the gear.
third, the solvents used.
fourth, injecting too quickly
fifth, virgin muscle.
Pain is caused when the oil/solvents are absorbed by the body and crystals are left behind.
Short esters (propionate or acetate) are harder, more painful crystals with melting points in the 100c range.
A hormone with a longer esters (excluding cypionate - cyp is long but also high melting point) can have a melting point in the 20c-40c range. not far off from human body temp.
Pain is also caused by concentration of your gear.
Building off of point 1: Let's say it takes the body 24 hours to absorb 1mL of a certain oil/solvent blend, and 24 hours to absorb 50mg of Testosterone Propionate. If 50mg (or less) of testosterone propionate is in 1mL of that oil, this injection should be painless. On the other hand, if 100mg of testosterone propionate is in that same 1mL of solution, then after 24 hours the body will have absorbed 50mg and 1mL, leaving 50mg behind in the injection area, crystalized and painful.
Its better to shoot 3mL of 50mg/mL Testosterone Propionate than 1mL of 150mg/mL Testosterone Propionate.
This is also why water based suspensions (Testosterone base/no ester, Winstrol ) hurt the most, water is very easily absorbed in the body
The solvents used can cause pain in 2 ways. Benzyl alcohol (BA) is used at 1%-2% as a preservative and antiseptic. If the alcohol content is too high the gear will burn. Pain in the first 24 hours is usually caused by heavy solvents, pain in the next few hours is usually cause by crystalization. Another way is a bad recipe. if someone used 2% BA, and the rest of the solution oil, the mg/mL would have to be low due to oil's weak ability to hold crystals. On the other hand, a recipe like 2% BA, 5% Guaiacol (super solvent), 10% Benzyl Salicylate (liquid asprin) with the filler split 50:50 between Ethyl Oleate (oil/solvent hybrid) and normal oil should be far less painful.
If you inject too quickly it can tear tissue.
If your muscle is new to the hormone, it will absorb the hormone very slowly, but absorb the oil/solvent very quickly. This will cause more crystalization and pain. As your muscles recognize the hormones, they will be absorbed more quickly, thus less pain. The deeper you inject into the center of a muscle group, the better.
How do I prevent pain before I inject?
Cut your shots 50:50 with sterile filtered oil. If you want to use 50mg of Testosterone Propionate, and you have 100mg/mL Testosterone Propionate- pull 0.5mL of your test prop, and 0.5mL of sterile filtered oil to shoot 1mL of 50mg/mL Testosterone Propionate. This is the #1 best way.
Dont bother with b-12, its water based- absorbed so quickly it will have little to no impact.
Before you shoot, it can help to warm your gear some (especially suspensions). You could put the vial in the bathroom sink and let hot water run over the vial for 2 minutes, and shake well. This will lower the oils viscosity also making it easier it pull into the syringe.
Inject slowly, take 30 seconds per mL. Use a 25g pin to inject so it forces you to move slowly.
If none of these work you could have dirty gear. Its possible there could be particles (although bacteriostatic) in the gear that are not causing infection, but still cause in site infection that made it through a filter.
How do I deal with pain once I have it?
The worst thing you can do is ice it. Cold will help the crystals fall out of solution/suspension.
Its okay to take some ibuprofin to decrease the swelling, and help with pain.
Also being in a hot tub, or jacuzzi, or warm bubble bath will help melt the crystals down. Using a heating pad can help also.
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I know this is 9 months old, but someone probably still has the question. If you are traveling in a cold area, your gear probably got too cold at some point. Heat it up in warm/hot water (not boiling) and shake it. If you get test from a pharmacy, the paperwork actually recommends doing this if you think it might have ever gotten cold. I do it each time I inject to thin the oil. Just put a little water in a pan. Heat it some. Test it with your finger. If it's hot but not burning you it's good. Make sure to turn off the heat. Soak your vial in it. Don't let the water get on the top. I use like 1/3 inch of water only. After a minute it should be warm. Shake it. The higher the concentration, the more important it is to do this. Too hot might oxidize it do be careful.
OMG you're right. I had convinced myself it was the pneumonia I got, but completely ignored how I GOT pneumonia: Riding a motorcycle cross country to NY in freezing weather.
Bingo! That's my answer!
Hi, so I have run Test C previously. Now trying Test P with Tbol. Was aiming to do 100mg P EOD> and 40-50 Tbol Daily.
I pinned first 100mg P 9 days ago. Had massive swelling to left glute, for three days. Read reaction can be bad at first. So fine, I'll push through.
Pinned the right glute two days later, but 50mg in two spots, and went to steam room after for heat. Painful again, swelling, but nowehere near as bad.
2 days later, so 4 days from first left glute pin, swelling reduced and thought pinning 50mg in two separate spots was way forward, so pinned left glute again. WHAM, terrible reaction with swelling at least as bad as first time. My left ass is waaaay bigger than the right. Huge. WTF? And extremely painful. Red, hot, swollen, but not showing the infection sign described elsewhere of skin feeling pudgey, and I don't feel unwell. I was also very careful with swabbing alcohol to ensure all clean. And the swelling had really gone after 4 days since first pin. So was happy wasn't infected. My left glute just doesn't like it?
Am ready to pin the right (good) glute again today. But no way am I doing the left again for a while. Am really concerned. I cannot train with this much swelling and pain. Have to switch things up.
I have Test C. Which has a 12 day half life. And I know Test P has a 4.5 day half life. Should I pin Test C and Test P at same time, and then pin Test P again in two days, then just left Test C do it's magic for the remainder 6 weeks?
Thanks all.
Ive learned it is strictly the brand of product you use. Grapeseed oil was always the better of the oils for me but when I turned onto pharma grad test, ALL pip went away. I've used plenty of ugl products and 99.9% of them gave me pip, some on an incredibly painful level to which I had to stop. Heating pads, massages, hot showers, warming up the gear, nothing helped. For me, it was paying the extra $$$ for pharma grade. Now that's all I'll ever use. Plus, I can inject ANYWHERE! Before it was the glute only due to severe pip everywhere else. I'm injecting in the chest, quads, traps, delts and triceps now. That's my two cents
Thank you man, will consider this
unreal89Very good read thanks OP.
Thank you for this information!
So I'm running 100 mg of high test prop 200 , 100 mgs of high tren ace 151 ( ace blend with mtren ect. It's literally looks like maple syrup) and 100 mgs of high mast prop 200 and that's everyday. Let me tell you I have been crippled. Cant even get in my truck and gettint out is even worse. I have ran this same cycle numerous times. It has never been this bad. I decided to cut my shots into 2 injections and dilute with Gso. I run the syringe under watet for 2 min ( hot) and massage site when im done. It worked wonders. Another tip pick up arnica gel. I get it at my health food store it's all natural odorless and not greasy. Best muscle relief / inflammation/redness gell I have EVER USED. I felt like a huge hippie buying the stuff. It's made of plants. But let me tell you rub that shit on after you inject and you won't even feel a thing the next day. Hope this helps boys. PIP FREEEEEEE
So just to clarify for my first cycle test e 500 (500mg/1ml) isn't a good idea @.5ml twice a week?
Very helpful. My very first cycle of only Test E from a UG supplier left me with the most awful PIPS. When I did research and switched to Test C there was absolutely no PIPS. The advice of cutting your injection with sterile oil helped me really well. I used safflower oil and it ended the pain.
soreasscheeksI've also had blends pip me but we know whole deal on blends.. But that was informative, I learned a few things.
300 Savage“I don’t want to die without a few scars.”
BendTheBarbellVery helpful post. My first cycle before I knew about sterile abscess and what caused them almost every shot caused massive swelling. Sense then I just pin right before a warm shower and massage and I switch to a 25g to force me to inject slow. Thanks for breaking this down way to provide to the community!
Any one else get late onset PIP? I hit my right quad Wednesday (admittedly used a little more oil than I usually do, 2cc vs 1cc.) and just started feeling it yesterday pretty bad. Pissed me off lol thought I was good to go. Not worried about infection or anything I know it's just PIP. No redness or swelling. Just induration of the muscle.
Just noticed that there are a couple tips I picked up in my career that I never see on the topic of injections. One is to dart the needle in quickly and smoothly. I've seen many videos of people pushing the needle in slowly. In my experience, patients report much less pain when it is done very fast and smooth. I have never water bathed a substance but with more viscos injections such as tetanus it helps a lot to roll the vial between your hands quickly for a couple minutes to warm it up before wiping the top with an alcho swab. I also instruct them to relax the muscle to be injected as much as they can. I usually get very got reports with these methods (on my patients). Hope it helps someone.
One you hit a nerve going into your quad, you will never dart a needle there again.
Funny you should mention that.
It took me a very, very, very, long time before I did start hitting the quads after doing so!
Huge muscle twitch and the pain almost caused me to take a sh!t while standing upright with a needle in my leg.
As of late (past few months) I've been very careful (as per usual even before the NERVEhit) and I keep the injections around 1-1.5cc's at most per site.
I save 2cc injections (if needed for that particular phase) for glutes.
Using a different brand of needle as well (feels much sharper and goes in very smooth compared to my old BD options) seems to help out allot and as usual slow injection process.
Yeah, I have not every felt that kind of pain during a "failed" injection anywhere else but the quad.
Train for purpose and stay healthy!
Good point, I guess most people probably don't make sure they have a good understanding of anat and phys before using AAS. That's a shame though. A basic understanding of human anatomy would go a long way to rectify this. All the talk about researching cycles pct etc and little to none about understanding the anatomy of injection sights. That being said I've found that injecting myself is WAY more difficult than injecting others. Especially the glutes.
True, injecting glutes is a pain in the ass, not literally though.
I find glute injections cause me the least amount of PIP, it's just difficult to inject correctly there.
No doubt, that's like the worst feeling ever, also, worst case scenario (probably won't happen with the quad, but very possible if you hit a larger nerve going in the glute) the needle could be broken off inside you from a nerve twitch....that would suck, and require surgery most likely
I usually pop it in to break the skin, then slowly push the needle the rest of the way. But it does hurt sometimes, kinda expected when giving yourself shots though right? lol
Good tips, thank you. I like the idea with warming up the ampule before injecting. Ive never done this before but it makes sense.
Greay post, thanks for sharing the tips.
I've always found if I slightly heat the oil (water bath) and keep my injection sights rotated it keep my pip to a minimum, luckily I'm not allergic to oils using ethyl which are always completely pain free and a dream to inject
GREAT post
Iam fairly new still to the community so I don't tend to open my mouth and speak quite as much as sit back and listen to the great advice some of members here dispense. That being said this is a subject I feel I have some experience with. Iam sure my advice will not apply to some of If not most of you but for those that it does its a game changer. I was noticing that I was suffering from some pretty serious pip so I changed my pre pin routine to as follows.
1 hour prepin- do the dishes
1/2 hour prepin- take out trash
10 mins prepin- prep everything concentrating on making sure everything is as sterile as possible
Few mins prepin- heat oils using warm water
30 secs prepin- hand pin to significant other tell her she's beautiful and no she's nothing like her mother
Since this change in my prepin routine I've noticed a significant decrease in pip. Hope this helps.
Hey what's up y'all I was wondering if it good to pin a blend of test e 200 test c 200 n prop. 100 n running deca 300 well bout 500 week n drol 50 tab the first week I've already put on 6 lbs best cyc I've ever done what's yell think ???
Thanks for your post !
Wow, thanks for this brother, shed alot of light on some issues I've had...
Here's a tip that COMPLETELY took away the PIP from test prop: add a drop of triethanolamine (TEA) to the vial.
Ok, just to make sure I am understanding this properly; if I use the same exact gear from the same source, but sometimes it causes PIP and sometimes it doesn't, that just means the crystals didn't dissolve properly when it was being created? Or...?
Injection methods play a factor
Just what a brother needed. I was pinning test susp. Water based(duh) lol in my quad and it got clogged before i could even start, i was kinda frustrated and a little confused so i kept applying what i thought was gradual pressure, till the entire ml shot in like the blink of an eye and it like i just injected a marble into my thigh, when i pulled pin a lil more blood than usual came out (i did aspirate) so i know not a vein. And 2 hours later i feel like i have a porcupine living in my thigh
Great Post man , we need to have more of those with straight up facts. Thx alot
I do almost 1 minute per 1ML especially in my larger shots, 3-4cc+ When I heat the gear prior really helps the oil dissipate a little faster.. Using a proper gauge and a steady hand and avoiding scar tissue spots has really left me PiP free the last 5 years ( Other than Primo sometimes that shit hurts)
crackerWhat does it mean if you used high mg gear and had pain for about 4 days but YOU DID USE ICE and IT DID HELP ?? Does that mean quality is bad? Im only asking because you said thats the worst to do and I just got over the pain on day 3 after injection with ice. I was hurting bad . I couldnt even go to the gym except for very minimal excercise
Thanks for such an informative post. I tried the 30 seconds per milliliter and it helped a great deal. Great post.
Heating pads works for me
Use that damn heating pad! It friggin' works....well at least for me. Dealt with pip from three days in a row, in three different spots, until I found this forum. Thank god!
Does anyone know how to tell if the BA in a compound is causing the pip?
It's very difficult to control the inyection's speed because you NEED to workout right now..
Be patient with that.
Thanks for this important information.
So I'm pinning about 2 1/2 cc . This is my first run with deca. I have never have a problem with pip ever. I use the same lab an never change. I've never had an issue with them ever. But I'm using a 25g 1 inch syringe. Now I'm wondering if my need needs to be longer an I need to switch back to 1inch 1/2 or could be cause by the amount an scare tissue from pinning in my glutes. I do all the steps mentioned here. Just curious. I'm assuming it's the 1 inch that's causing my ass to have a nice size lump an pain for about 4 days. Thank you for your time.
Probably so just because all of that oil is closer to the surface. My general rule of thumb is 25 g 1" for upper body sites and 23g 1.5" for lower body. Not saying that is a protocol for all to follow though, it will depend on your body composition. I have very lean delts so a 1" pin works. I've also got very meaty (lean, but very thick and dense) quads and glutes so I like a 1.5" 23g pin. Gets the oil in nice and deep and the larger gauge slides through that dense muscle tissue like a hot knife through butter. Btw, are you doing 2.5 cc twice a week, once a week or is that the combined volume of two 1.25 shots? If your doing it once a week I would recommend splitting into two 1.25 shots 3-4 days a part. Deca is such a long ester that you can slide with weekly shots and still keep your blood levels pretty stable but in my opinion the more stable the levels and the less oil you have to pin at once the better
Also I have found running your gear under hot water before you stick, works wonders..goes in so much easier.
Powpowpowi make my syringe up and put it near a heater..dont put your bottle gear under hot water as u gota keep it in a dry cool place and under hot water is not either
I make mine up too, who don't?? Warming your gear before sticking is just fine, it is always in a cool place, not new to this.
PowpowpowSorry dude sounded like you warm up all you gear like put the bottle under hot/warm water...just didn't want noobs doing that that's all...I bought some gear once worst pip ever so I got filters and redid my gear wow!! Smooth sailing
Yur post is a excellent read my friend!
Lol.... this really cracked me up
Great thread thanks
Do you have to use an inch an half in your glutes if your doing 2 cc or more. Or would an inch work? Reason I ask is my box I bought is inch not inch an half