hollywoodham's picture
hollywoodham
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+ 81 Causes and Solutions to PIP problems

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I figured i'd share this information that helped me get through the extreme pip i had with some over concentrated gear. I constantly see posts and questions about dealing with this, so heres the information that helped me.

What causes (non infection related) injection pain?

first the shorter the ester, the higher the melting point
secind, the concentration of the gear.
third, the solvents used.
fourth, injecting too quickly
fifth, virgin muscle.

Pain is caused when the oil/solvents are absorbed by the body and crystals are left behind.
Short esters (propionate or acetate) are harder, more painful crystals with melting points in the 100c range.
A hormone with a longer esters (excluding cypionate - cyp is long but also high melting point) can have a melting point in the 20c-40c range. not far off from human body temp.

Pain is also caused by concentration of your gear.
Building off of point 1: Let's say it takes the body 24 hours to absorb 1mL of a certain oil/solvent blend, and 24 hours to absorb 50mg of Testosterone Propionate. If 50mg (or less) of testosterone propionate is in 1mL of that oil, this injection should be painless. On the other hand, if 100mg of testosterone propionate is in that same 1mL of solution, then after 24 hours the body will have absorbed 50mg and 1mL, leaving 50mg behind in the injection area, crystalized and painful.
Its better to shoot 3mL of 50mg/mL Testosterone Propionate than 1mL of 150mg/mL Testosterone Propionate.
This is also why water based suspensions (Testosterone base/no ester, Winstrol ) hurt the most, water is very easily absorbed in the body

The solvents used can cause pain in 2 ways. Benzyl alcohol (BA) is used at 1%-2% as a preservative and antiseptic. If the alcohol content is too high the gear will burn. Pain in the first 24 hours is usually caused by heavy solvents, pain in the next few hours is usually cause by crystalization. Another way is a bad recipe. if someone used 2% BA, and the rest of the solution oil, the mg/mL would have to be low due to oil's weak ability to hold crystals. On the other hand, a recipe like 2% BA, 5% Guaiacol (super solvent), 10% Benzyl Salicylate (liquid asprin) with the filler split 50:50 between Ethyl Oleate (oil/solvent hybrid) and normal oil should be far less painful.

If you inject too quickly it can tear tissue.

If your muscle is new to the hormone, it will absorb the hormone very slowly, but absorb the oil/solvent very quickly. This will cause more crystalization and pain. As your muscles recognize the hormones, they will be absorbed more quickly, thus less pain. The deeper you inject into the center of a muscle group, the better.

How do I prevent pain before I inject?

Cut your shots 50:50 with sterile filtered oil. If you want to use 50mg of Testosterone Propionate, and you have 100mg/mL Testosterone Propionate- pull 0.5mL of your test prop, and 0.5mL of sterile filtered oil to shoot 1mL of 50mg/mL Testosterone Propionate. This is the #1 best way.
Dont bother with b-12, its water based- absorbed so quickly it will have little to no impact.

Before you shoot, it can help to warm your gear some (especially suspensions). You could put the vial in the bathroom sink and let hot water run over the vial for 2 minutes, and shake well. This will lower the oils viscosity also making it easier it pull into the syringe.

Inject slowly, take 30 seconds per mL. Use a 25g pin to inject so it forces you to move slowly.

If none of these work you could have dirty gear. Its possible there could be particles (although bacteriostatic) in the gear that are not causing infection, but still cause in site infection that made it through a filter.

How do I deal with pain once I have it?

The worst thing you can do is ice it. Cold will help the crystals fall out of solution/suspension.
Its okay to take some ibuprofin to decrease the swelling, and help with pain.
Also being in a hot tub, or jacuzzi, or warm bubble bath will help melt the crystals down. Using a heating pad can help also.

barbellGORILLA's picture

I've recently experienced HORRIBLE PIP, this is my fourth cycle and I always get pip and test flu in the beginning of each cycle. I blasted prop250 & 1test in quad, and later that same night I could not bend my leg at all! It was completely locked out, I was in pain without moving it or touching it! I awoke in an amazing amount of pain took a bath and somehow went back to sleep when I woke the next morning the pain was defiantly still there but nothing like before. My knee and calf hurt, there was also a small amount of fluid pocketed under my knee. It was not red or swollen like in most my cases, witch caused many on the forum to conclude that I hit a nerve. In any case it was a horrible experience that lasted almost five days. My suggestion to avoid/treat. Pip is heat vial and muscle before injecting. Use heating pad on site after injection for twenty or more minutes. And if you do have pip take hot baths, use heating pad, and take ibuprofen.

justaguy's picture

Every now & then when I pin my upper quads, I hit a nerve as I go in with the pin. It will make the muscle twitch! I'll either push on through or pull back & hit it at a bit of a different angle. There has been a time when later I had some serious pip, but not every time.

justaguy's picture

Yeah, it feels weird to make the muscle twitch, but I'm not going to "pull out" & restart the process, just make an adjustment. No on a few occasions when I just go with it, I have aggravated that nerve or something & it reminds me later. I seem to be more prone on my r\left quad than right though. I run a 23g 1.5" and almost always run 2cc have run up to 3 before, but when I'm running more than that I'll go with 2 pins, 1 each quad.
Good luck.

dallasxbrown's picture

Injected 500mg of Test E in my glute Saturday afternoon and after 48 hours I'm still in pain. Keep in mind, this was my first injection so I'm contributing it to virgin muscle and shaky hands. Ibuprofen twice a day and a heat pad have been relieving pain by A LOT.

Thegymrat's picture

good post im going to try slowing down the shot cuz heating it dosent help me much. if im stickin on an off day i usually do som type of excersie after my shot like pushups and for som reason tht helps

don1's picture

What about pinning into scar tissue ? This can cause a lump as the oils take longer to disperse , this is another reason site rotation is important

Makwa's picture

Awesome info. Still a virgin and haven't pinned. this info will help

reMARKable's picture

Good info. Just found out my body doesn't go well with EO products.

kirayama's picture

Good stuff, explains a lot Smile

VIKING EVOLUTION's picture

***YEAH THIS IS PRETTY GOOD STUFF AND SHOULD BE A GO TO FOR ALL NOOBS WHO ARE SUFFERING WITH A LITTLE PIP!... ALL I HAVE TO ADD HERE IS IF YOU WANT TO PLAY WITH ROIDS YOU HAVE TO MAN THE FUCK UP!..NO PAIN NO FKN GAIN!... RESEARCH SOURCES AND OILS AND DONT CHEAT ON YOURSELF BY BUYING BUDGET GEAR... QUESTION!.. WHY DO WE NEVER HAVE POSTS FROM MANY VETS COMPLAINING ABOUT PIP!.. ANSWER!... THEY STICK TO BRANDS THEY KNOW AND TRUST THROUGH YEARS OF EXPERIENCE... FIND THE SOLVENTS AND CARRIERS THAT WORK FOR "YOU" AND STICK TOO IT . ***

LoveGear411's picture

Hey Viking, sent a FR. I got a Q 4 u. Thank you.

wildaussie's picture

VIKING your the man!!!!!!
No pain no gain brother.
I just started pinning some nice Winstrol (Nice and milky shit)
Fuck the pip was insane man.
Suck it up, go to the gym and I assure you after 20 mins that pip will be gone and you will be training like a mother fu**er!!!!!
Injectable roids are for the men. Take the pain but within the next few weeks you will see the gain.
Fark, drawing with an 18g and injecting with a 25g you don't feel shit.
Stop being super cock cocks and just go for it.
Super respect for "Viking" on this one.
Listen to him he knows his shit 120%

spartacus91's picture

Great post.

27300man's picture

So that explains it! Great post! Thanks!

Bassnectar's picture

Shit, I'm pretty glad I do not suffer from the PIP from Prop.

Good informative post bro!

Neo-istheone's picture

great post... good read.. I could never figure out why some days I have no PIP and other days I have bad PIP... I can say after this post I have been going to fast with some injections... thanks for the post!!!!!

EMAC's picture

Good post

Ronny13's picture

Good Post +1