+ 81 Causes and Solutions to PIP problems
I figured i'd share this information that helped me get through the extreme pip i had with some over concentrated gear. I constantly see posts and questions about dealing with this, so heres the information that helped me.
What causes (non infection related) injection pain?
first the shorter the ester, the higher the melting point
secind, the concentration of the gear.
third, the solvents used.
fourth, injecting too quickly
fifth, virgin muscle.
Pain is caused when the oil/solvents are absorbed by the body and crystals are left behind.
Short esters (propionate or acetate) are harder, more painful crystals with melting points in the 100c range.
A hormone with a longer esters (excluding cypionate - cyp is long but also high melting point) can have a melting point in the 20c-40c range. not far off from human body temp.
Pain is also caused by concentration of your gear.
Building off of point 1: Let's say it takes the body 24 hours to absorb 1mL of a certain oil/solvent blend, and 24 hours to absorb 50mg of Testosterone Propionate. If 50mg (or less) of testosterone propionate is in 1mL of that oil, this injection should be painless. On the other hand, if 100mg of testosterone propionate is in that same 1mL of solution, then after 24 hours the body will have absorbed 50mg and 1mL, leaving 50mg behind in the injection area, crystalized and painful.
Its better to shoot 3mL of 50mg/mL Testosterone Propionate than 1mL of 150mg/mL Testosterone Propionate.
This is also why water based suspensions (Testosterone base/no ester, Winstrol ) hurt the most, water is very easily absorbed in the body
The solvents used can cause pain in 2 ways. Benzyl alcohol (BA) is used at 1%-2% as a preservative and antiseptic. If the alcohol content is too high the gear will burn. Pain in the first 24 hours is usually caused by heavy solvents, pain in the next few hours is usually cause by crystalization. Another way is a bad recipe. if someone used 2% BA, and the rest of the solution oil, the mg/mL would have to be low due to oil's weak ability to hold crystals. On the other hand, a recipe like 2% BA, 5% Guaiacol (super solvent), 10% Benzyl Salicylate (liquid asprin) with the filler split 50:50 between Ethyl Oleate (oil/solvent hybrid) and normal oil should be far less painful.
If you inject too quickly it can tear tissue.
If your muscle is new to the hormone, it will absorb the hormone very slowly, but absorb the oil/solvent very quickly. This will cause more crystalization and pain. As your muscles recognize the hormones, they will be absorbed more quickly, thus less pain. The deeper you inject into the center of a muscle group, the better.
How do I prevent pain before I inject?
Cut your shots 50:50 with sterile filtered oil. If you want to use 50mg of Testosterone Propionate, and you have 100mg/mL Testosterone Propionate- pull 0.5mL of your test prop, and 0.5mL of sterile filtered oil to shoot 1mL of 50mg/mL Testosterone Propionate. This is the #1 best way.
Dont bother with b-12, its water based- absorbed so quickly it will have little to no impact.
Before you shoot, it can help to warm your gear some (especially suspensions). You could put the vial in the bathroom sink and let hot water run over the vial for 2 minutes, and shake well. This will lower the oils viscosity also making it easier it pull into the syringe.
Inject slowly, take 30 seconds per mL. Use a 25g pin to inject so it forces you to move slowly.
If none of these work you could have dirty gear. Its possible there could be particles (although bacteriostatic) in the gear that are not causing infection, but still cause in site infection that made it through a filter.
How do I deal with pain once I have it?
The worst thing you can do is ice it. Cold will help the crystals fall out of solution/suspension.
Its okay to take some ibuprofin to decrease the swelling, and help with pain.
Also being in a hot tub, or jacuzzi, or warm bubble bath will help melt the crystals down. Using a heating pad can help also.
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I use 1" 25g for my glutes and they work just fine and I have shot in over 2.5cc. I usually stay around 10-12% BF so you may need a longer needle if you have higher BF.
Ok sweet that's what I have. Just never had pip like I do. My gear is legit an goood same stuff I've always used. Just every time I shoot my 2.5 cc it hurts for 3 days an disappers. Been using 3 years plus. I've done everything can't figure it out. Except is my first run with nandrolone declonate. But I don't think that's it.
I saw you posted a review about our gear, thank you for taking time to do this !
Did you had any issues regarding PIP with our products ? You should have zero PIP with BP brand at least.
BTW: Pain is sometimes caused by some impurities. For example on TE impurity that cause pain is heptanoic acid that appears when the raw enter decomposition ( going bad). So on for each raw there are impurities that cause pain.
AnonI had very little pip with BP !! Great stuff I just put an order in 2 days ago! Can't wait !
I have recently gotten some serious stuff with intolerable pip. Best advice is to heat gear, and use sterile grape seed oil, then use as much oil with each injection as you withdrawal in T. immediately get to a hot tub or bathtub with hot water, we are talking at least 100F guys and start rubbing and stretching and holding. This will help to move the oil from the injection site and disperse it better among the muscle. Reality is if the gear gives pip…then your gonna have pip but this should help reduce is and keep you walking at least
Also soaking in hot tub with a cup of Epsom salt pulls out swelling and infection, 15 mins on/off 2 to 3 times really helps if your in pain.
100 percent right on the injection speed. For myself I can always tell when I push an oil too fast. It's the difference of snorness for a day or a snorness for 3 to 4. Great post.
definitely concentration of gear caused my PIP. T cyp at 100 mgs/ml - little PIP, 250mgs/ml gave moderate PIP, i have used test C at 350mgs/ml and the pip was high for up to a week.
Man, wish i would have known this before i bought TestE400 LOL. quad pip is BRUTAL. Kicks in within 12 hours and can last for days. Glutes are not as bad. Anyone know where to get sterile oil to cut?
Test prop. 200mg per ml. ( EO, grape seed, 20% bb 2%)
Hurt like hell.
Did the same but with mct oil and hardly any pip
I personally have started my equipment test cycle at 500mg test e and 800 mg eq week and the test e is rough eq no pain at all. I think I'm getting the test flu too. But it happened before on a test blend. The warm water info is fact in my case. I'm going to.try running a 1/2 cc per pin to see if that helps great read
If you can, draw up with either a plastic or 18/19 gauge needle, then inject with 23-25 gauge needle...A 25 may be tough to get the oil through, but a 23 should work fine. Make sure you pinch the skin, and hell, go for those glutes, they always hurt the least and the mobility helps with PIP. Splitting the dosages helps too, I personally like splitting up injections, and it definitely helps with PIP...
Hell yah, nice advice. I started splitting my dosages up instead all in one and that helped me plus running warm water over the injection site.
Thanks great advice
thanks bro this helps me alot good stuff
Double-TimeI have tried all of this along with cutting oil. I have a bad reaction to something inside the mix benzyl benzoate or alcohol/ Oil
When I go sub-q Its all good though 1cc per site 5/8th 25 gauge.
I have suffered deeply mentally and physically while reading this advice over and over thinking I am not doing something right. There are some people out there that have a reaction bad enough that its nearly impossible to move let alone train. No bitch here by the way. I get abcess like reactions and gotten to the point where I said fuck the e.r. (I know. Stupid) and just drained 30cc of fluid. I knew it wasn't contaminated and a "sterile" abcess due to it being my trt phama grade gear. I have been lanced a million times and am fully aware of the fact that you can push the "bacteria" around or into the abcess. I am not going to justify that. Edit pain goes away significantly after draining. It feels like the best shit you have ever taken and the strongest orgasm all combined into one tasty sandwich
I have really increased my man hood sticking myself with 18 gauges and I guess a positive in a negative is that It made me numb to the virgin needle part real quick.
But please read up on dr. crisler's sub q protocol and share it in the situation of someone still complaining after 3 minutes a cc Phama grade. .5 ml in delt/glute/quad warmed the pin etc.
especially the inject slowly part. take atleast 30 seconds. I made the mistake of injecting 1 1/2 ml of test-e 250 in about 10 seconds and I was limping for 5 days. the next time I took between 50-60 seconds and no pip at all
Anongeneral rule of thumb try to take 90 secs per 1mL
It helps greatly, I just apply enough pressure on the plunger to keep it moving as slow as humanly possible
60 secs isn't bad ( 10 is tho LOL ) but the slower the better
Best read on PIP ive seen on the net. Cutting gear 50/50 with GSO works wonders for eliminating PIP. Literally went from severe PIP In pecs to hardly any PIP.
That was good information especially the cuases of pip. Thanks for this thread
Rod1971Hey HOLLYWOODHAM , great job , nice tip . I'm Rod and I live by the Runyon Canyon here in Hollywood as well ... I lost my source and I'm trying to find a website or dealer to get some . Any help? I can send you my cell if you want . Thanks in advance
Rod
I have ran cruise and blast cycles for almost 20 years straight. The only thing that ever killed me really bad was prop. I could walk past a bottle of it and get flu symptoms LOL. Finally used EO for the first time in my prop and it has zero PIP. Im pinning 100mg/ml daily and no pain at all. I know EO may not be a cure for everybody but it sure worked for me. Just my .02 cents
PROZONE-LABWhat can also cause PIP is if the product used to make the gear has left over Carbolic Acid residue or if the gear is not filtered properly when being bottled. Carbolic Acid is created in the manufacturing process of the product and is left over if the the product is not cleaned properly, this is common in with chinese and india derived products.
What helps me from getting PIP is pinning before I workout. I guess being active helps absorb faster into the bloodstream and I usually don't get PIP or it would be minor for a few hours.
I have a question regarding the purity of the oil. I have been experiencing some bad PIP, this is my first cycle thoguh. My right glute has lumped up something terrible. I have tried using both 25GX1" and 22GX1 1/2" and it doesn't matter.
I have been injecting this oil for 3 weeks now. I noticed today that there appear to be something in the oil. I can't really tell if it may just be air bubbles or actual impurities in the oil (foreign objects).
I ordered from a reputable source here, what should I do? I am due to inject today, but I am kind of afraid to do so until I can determine whether the oil is good or not. This is my first cycle
PS on the unused vials I just noticed that particles appear after I shake the oil. Is this normal?
Those particles are likely to just be tiny air bubbles. Like when you shake a bottle of water, you see bubbles floating to the top. Oil is much thicker, so the bubbles move much slower, and look more like particles because they don't flow straight up.
Sounds like it fell out of suspension, try heating it up.
These are some great information.
Couldn't have said it better. Don't rush the pin. You don't want to bolus your gear. Let it slowly get in there.
Also by having some on else pin u helps. As they are able to keep the syringe more level therefore the needle won't open u up as much
Rumor has it that warmi the oil whilst it is in the syringe helps, I just put it in a warm glass of water ebought to go half way up the side of the syringe and leave it there for a few minutes helps, also just standing on the opposing leg for a glute shot can help relax the muscle
I want to throw out an idea I've been tossing around as I've been considering whether to use some bold ace I got by mistake in a recent order. I hear all over the place that the bold ace has horrible pip for many and also causes flu like symptoms. I was wondering if this could be due to EO being used. In many EO will cause severe PIP and flu like symptoms.
anyone willing to share some insight or experience with this would be much appreciated. I personally have no problems whatsoever with EO and if my theory is right then the bold ace should be fine for me.
Wearing compression clothing helps me.
Switching injection sites is important and using needles to draw up, and then switching needles to shoot, also helps...believe it or not, when you initially draw up with the needle, it dulls it quite a bit...also, and this may sound weird, but kinda of slapping the area helps; my wife kinda slaps my ass, maybe she's just a kinky fuck, who knows, ha, but it seems to draw blood to the area, and then she squeezes as if she's about to give me a sub q, and then delivers the IM injection, and that seems to help too...personally too, depending on where I'm getting my injection that day, I like to work that same body part out after the injection to aid in dispersal and much less PIP...then again, I could say quit being pussies and just deal with it...;) j/k, I can be just as much of a pussy at times...
All of that is great stuff. Thanks for that. Just FYI for those who may be using a high concentrate oil. I was given a very effectuve solution to that from an experienced member here and it worked like a charm.
Was pinning 500mg tests e per ml
PIP like hell. Got some sterile GSO and man what a relief. If u ever run across this and need more info let me know. I can help u with source and Info. just FR me and let me know whats going on. Just want to pass down some much needed help that I got!
I know this is an old post, however I'm interested in some GSO. I just sent a FR. Thanks!
Hey Mktpg5, sent a FR, got a Q. Appreciate it.
Hey bro FR sent need to talk to you about some GSO
PIP?
You should ice it within 24 hours and hot compress after 24 hrs
If it get worse and have a fever ,may be bacterioatatic
You should have some antibiotics.
actually icing could make it worse as PIP is often caused by crystallization of the T. Warmth like a hot bath, heating pad, or even a cream like rubA535 will work. Anything that brings blood to the area will often help with PIP. Icing may help if the PIP is caused by other reasons (injecting too fast etc) where bruising may happen. Experiment with both heat or cold and see which works best for you. As this poster says, if you have a concurrent fever and the injection site becomes red with swelling, it's probably infection.
I like to stretch and relax the area, before pinning, as I tend to inject slower especially when doing my glutes
Liquidzid like to ram the shit out of the glutes in your avatar
That's probably the most correct response I've seen today.
I have been using a foam roller once the pip subsides a bit. I feel like it def helps.
i tried to run some bold ace with my current eq cycle for a kicker but the pip from that stuff was evil. i tried to hang in there but i had to stop after 2 weeks. the pip came on the same night after injecting in the morning. then over the next 3 to 4 days the pip got worse. i mean it was horrible. this experience with bold ace has made me never ever want to use bold ace again. im ready to chuck this 55 ml vial in the lake. evil stuff i tell ya
Johnny the Bullme too I having these fucking problems. I am guessing that its the Benzyl Alcohol.
right now I can't walk from a quad injection 100mg 1 half a ml of 200mg prop.
Im right there with you and this my seventh week in , rotating site, I think I jabbed and plunged too fast. its been close to 48 hours and I can barely walk
Im right there with you and this my seventh week in , rotating site, I think I jabbed and plunged too fast. its been close to 48 hours and I can barely walk
I bought sterile grape seed oil. Solved my problem with some 500 mg test. Wish I would have read this post before the first injection. Thanks.