+ 81 Causes and Solutions to PIP problems
I figured i'd share this information that helped me get through the extreme pip i had with some over concentrated gear. I constantly see posts and questions about dealing with this, so heres the information that helped me.
What causes (non infection related) injection pain?
first the shorter the ester, the higher the melting point
secind, the concentration of the gear.
third, the solvents used.
fourth, injecting too quickly
fifth, virgin muscle.
Pain is caused when the oil/solvents are absorbed by the body and crystals are left behind.
Short esters (propionate or acetate) are harder, more painful crystals with melting points in the 100c range.
A hormone with a longer esters (excluding cypionate - cyp is long but also high melting point) can have a melting point in the 20c-40c range. not far off from human body temp.
Pain is also caused by concentration of your gear.
Building off of point 1: Let's say it takes the body 24 hours to absorb 1mL of a certain oil/solvent blend, and 24 hours to absorb 50mg of Testosterone Propionate. If 50mg (or less) of testosterone propionate is in 1mL of that oil, this injection should be painless. On the other hand, if 100mg of testosterone propionate is in that same 1mL of solution, then after 24 hours the body will have absorbed 50mg and 1mL, leaving 50mg behind in the injection area, crystalized and painful.
Its better to shoot 3mL of 50mg/mL Testosterone Propionate than 1mL of 150mg/mL Testosterone Propionate.
This is also why water based suspensions (Testosterone base/no ester, Winstrol ) hurt the most, water is very easily absorbed in the body
The solvents used can cause pain in 2 ways. Benzyl alcohol (BA) is used at 1%-2% as a preservative and antiseptic. If the alcohol content is too high the gear will burn. Pain in the first 24 hours is usually caused by heavy solvents, pain in the next few hours is usually cause by crystalization. Another way is a bad recipe. if someone used 2% BA, and the rest of the solution oil, the mg/mL would have to be low due to oil's weak ability to hold crystals. On the other hand, a recipe like 2% BA, 5% Guaiacol (super solvent), 10% Benzyl Salicylate (liquid asprin) with the filler split 50:50 between Ethyl Oleate (oil/solvent hybrid) and normal oil should be far less painful.
If you inject too quickly it can tear tissue.
If your muscle is new to the hormone, it will absorb the hormone very slowly, but absorb the oil/solvent very quickly. This will cause more crystalization and pain. As your muscles recognize the hormones, they will be absorbed more quickly, thus less pain. The deeper you inject into the center of a muscle group, the better.
How do I prevent pain before I inject?
Cut your shots 50:50 with sterile filtered oil. If you want to use 50mg of Testosterone Propionate, and you have 100mg/mL Testosterone Propionate- pull 0.5mL of your test prop, and 0.5mL of sterile filtered oil to shoot 1mL of 50mg/mL Testosterone Propionate. This is the #1 best way.
Dont bother with b-12, its water based- absorbed so quickly it will have little to no impact.
Before you shoot, it can help to warm your gear some (especially suspensions). You could put the vial in the bathroom sink and let hot water run over the vial for 2 minutes, and shake well. This will lower the oils viscosity also making it easier it pull into the syringe.
Inject slowly, take 30 seconds per mL. Use a 25g pin to inject so it forces you to move slowly.
If none of these work you could have dirty gear. Its possible there could be particles (although bacteriostatic) in the gear that are not causing infection, but still cause in site infection that made it through a filter.
How do I deal with pain once I have it?
The worst thing you can do is ice it. Cold will help the crystals fall out of solution/suspension.
Its okay to take some ibuprofin to decrease the swelling, and help with pain.
Also being in a hot tub, or jacuzzi, or warm bubble bath will help melt the crystals down. Using a heating pad can help also.
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Yes Sterile GSO is the ticket to PIP relief w high concentrate oils. I was grinning and bearing it for a while before I used GSO and man what a relief. First pin w it in the mix and PIP gone!
I heat the liquid under the sink ,use a heat pad and massage the muscle for a solid 2-5 minutes. It makes a huge difference for me. I notice it big time when I'm lazy and don't bother
Don't massage. It just makes things worse. Everything else you're doing is good, just don't massage the injection spot.
Nice post bro...Im sitting here with a severly sore quad from a 3cc injection the day before yesterday. 1cc of Sust350, 1cc of Eq 300, and 1 cc of test susp100. Ive pinned the sust and eq together before with minimal PIP so I know it's this good old pharm grade suspension i got from my crooked HRT doc ;) What do u suggest for minimizing pain in regards to suspension? I pin 100mg 3x/week and am dreading having to hit my other quad tomorrow!!! LOL....all for the love of the sport!!!
I
Love my test e vs cyp pip wise. Then again it depends on brand.
Good write up man a lot to take away from that and learn from. Thanks
Interesting, the info about melting points would indicate that test cyp would be more painful than test E.
For me, test cyp is generally much smoother than test E; I prefer cyp because test E, for me, is pip city (allergy maybe?).
After you've been stabbing yourself a while you no longer feel it after a few minutes. I used to get sore after test prop for a couple days. Now it's pin and 2 min later its gone. Your body adapts very well.
Good to know...had my first injection yesterday.
Nice write up for beginners and advanced. Some guys don't bother with details. Just pin and forget.
Car seat warmers are very effective for painful glute injections ;)
great post so why do I get rapid heart rate with some gear and some do not even feel like I inject it.
for example I am on HRT and when I take my Test C made by Watson I do not feel a thing but I when I
take Pakistan Organon human grade I get elevated heart rate?
Is the Organon Sust? Sust is a mix of faster acting esters (Prop and Phenyl Prop) and longer esters (Isocaproate and decanoate).
Lets not forget if you use a pin that is too short, you will basically be shooting sub Q and tren A sub q is not fun I can assure you... learned the hard way recently
what do you think is too short? just curious...
cause if you are lean you can get away w/ 1" in quads and delts all day long. I always go 1.5" for the glutes tho..
Why are some people so worried about pinning too deep? You can't feel the needle going in the extra half an inch, so just be safe and go 1.5 inches. The stabbing pain stops after the first half an inch anyway. Delts should use a shorter needle, but the large muscles need 1.5 inches.
Glad I read this! I tried some new gear and its killing me 2 days after I pin and last about 2 days after it starts. Now I know what I need to do to fix it
I'll heat the bottle up in hot water, sterilize, pin usually in my upper leg. Afterwards i'll stretch my leg for about 5 minutes then take a hot bath. I Never get anymore pip.
Surprisingly I have been lucky to not have experienced severe PIP like some of the others here. In the future though to avoid having my first experience I will most definitely be taking the advice of this article into consideration.
MexoOMFG! I'm using bi-blend which consist of 175mg Test P & 125 Tren A.. I feel fever and a PAINNN 3 times worst than a super kick in the balls. The pain only let me sleep like 3 hrs per night...Thank god I found this beautiful soul who write all this for us!
Pinned my delt with test e 400 an eq 200, with about 3ml in my delt, I was and idiot and injected at an angle towards my bicep. The next day I I couldn't lift my shoulder without help, the third day still pain, but better, but my whole bicep was red and puffy, smh took a week to go away. I blame it on the way I injected also the amount of gear I took. In on 5;9 200 pds lol
Pinned my delt with test e 400 an eq 200, with about 3ml in my delt, I was and idiot and injected at an angle towards my bicep. The next day I I couldn't lift my shoulder without help, the third day still pain, but better, but my whole bicep was red and puffy, smh took a week to go away. I blame it on the way I injected also the amount of gear I took. In on 5;9 200 pds lol
I pinned my left ventroglute today for the first time. Hit my right one Monday. It was sore but no big deal. Today I feel like Chuck Norris kicked me in the hip! Pinned 2.5ml test e, eq, deca. I guess I missed the sweet spot on this one?
Ouch!!!
I had it bad. Asked around everywhere. Read everything. Heated, used a Brenda new 18g plunger even everytime, tried all sites, tried several labs. What did it for me... CSO. Many smart asses on here speak of gso, and eo and others as being superior. That's not accurate. Cottonseed will save ur ass. Literally. Try and thank me later guys
I have a question I have used most all test esters no pip . I did two injections with deca and feel like someone shot both my ads cheeks with a 22or.what ratios do you cut the gear with ?Thanks sorry for typos doing this on my phone
18g??????? fuckin god damn, ouch!!!!
Guys read carefully. 18G PLUNGER...
To pull from bottle to syringe. Then u pop on a 25g to inject. Lol c'mon fellas
Read carefully? Try actually explaining what you meant to explain. You said nothing about switching to a 25g in your original post. And WTF is a 18g plunger anyway? The plunger is the part at the top of the syringe, and isn't measured by gauge like needles are.
The plungers are all the same size Brosef ( if they are the interchangeable ones) But I get it. It would have been a nightmare if it were 18g Needle!
18g Might as well be a shank ! Jesus.
gso , cso , eo, uh.... none of that matters .
18g equals pip.... lol
shirlsguyI was wondering the same thing,,, I get scared of the 21g! I haven't found anything that won't go through a 23g just fine. PIP???? More like purple heart for being wounded in action.
Right?! I really hope he meant he was drawing with a new 18g each time....If not I feel so bad for the guy. I sent him an FR. To no avail yet. I pinned with a 21g once by total accident. But an 18g, I couldn't even imagine
I pinned 50mg of aquatest{test suspended in water from balkan} and it turns out the batch wasnt exactly good and wasnt micronized enough at the lab. My quad is swollen and red and I pinned that stuff friday. Cyrstallized to the max :{
LiebowI find simple things relieve PIP.
Popping 800mg Ibuprofen, doing a few body-squats, having a hot bath, applying a hotwater bottle when sitting down, and applying Deep Heat whenever going to bed or outside. Works for me...
RomanbrandGreat post, virgin muscle is not a myth! My very first pin was Test E 300mg and Prop this Monday, the first day was not bad at all, but the next TWO days I could not put pressure on my left leg (thigh), my next injections all have crazy PIP too but not nearly as bad as that first shot.
I think I want to find some b12 , sterile oil, or grape oil to mix with. If anyone knows of a good source for any of those, please PM me, my PIP is out of control!!!!
RomanbrandBump*
Great post!
I had massive pip after second 2ml inject of test e 300. So much to the point I thought maybe it was an infection. Large swollen painful lump, warm to the touch, I monitored myself for a fever, which never came. Pain and lump went away in about 4 days. I read some posts on here and tried warming the solution first, let me tell you guys, it helped, still some pain and a lump, but nothing like the first time, I hope this helps someone
I had massive pip after second 2ml inject of test e 300. So much to the point I thought maybe it was an infection. Large swollen painful lump, warm to the touch, I monitored myself for a fever, which never came. Pain and lump went away in about 4 days. I read some posts on here and tried warming the solution first, let me tell you guys, it helped, still some pain and a lump, but nothing like the first time, I hope this helps someone
Ethyl Oleate is garbage to me, suppose to be smoother injections, but I have a test-e 250 and it hurts worse than regular old BBA and oil, why change what the pharmaceutical's use? lol
Im gonna Post above you bro..... SUPERSCHNIT..... Edit out that source bro. I just sent you and fr. pm me when get it and we can talk
anyone have experience with alliance test e 500 I've never shot over 250mg pr ml
damn some good stuff here. As for me I was fine w/ the cycle I was on. Switched over to Test E 300 and now it's a bitch. I don't get the pip.... give it 4 days later and I'm literally in limp mode and have a nice red spot and swollen a bit. What's weird is it only happens on my quads. Delts it's sore but not to the point where I'm putting a heat pad to relieve the swelling. What I noticed today is the less I sit and walk around the better it is OR the more rest I get and actually sleep it goes away. Pain has lasted for 5 days from date of pin.
I'm having a bash at doing my quads tomorrow, I'm praying for no pip.
Going to do a ML in each quad so they both get started off, at least my hobbling about will be even, lol
Going to do squats straight after then sit in steam room and Jacuzzi after that to help any pip.
I think you'll be ok man. (High and outside)
AnonMan, this is a very helpful post. I've been running a test e / var cycle for 9 weeks with no issues until I decided to pin my Quad which I don't do. I pinned my right quad on Monday and it was smooth as silk. I did legs on Tuesday and that night my quad was sore. I'm used to a little soreness but this was excruciating. Needless to I've been icing it for the last couple of days only for the pain and swelling to get worse. I noticed that when I took a hot shower and let the water run over it I would get some relief. So this morning I get up and the leg looks better and what do I do with my wife encouraging me on, Yes. I ice it again and now it's swollen twice the size.
I was gonna start a post and then came across this post. Well. you guessed it brothers. I have a heating pad wrapped around that sucker and popped three Motrin quicker than a mutt on some heated bitch's ass. I give this excellent read 2 thumbs up. On the money baby!!!!
LaTTTimer99Great post
+1
I think it depends on the type of oil used, my first test cycle ever, I always had a hot lump for about 3 days until I shot the next, my next 2 cycles were fine, than my current cycle of test e 400 and eq 250, I experienced nothing, than I ran out of eq and had a extra bottle from another source, I got huge lumps and a little hotness no red, I than got my original batch of eq in, and everything is gtg small bump if anything lasts a day, but i asked my source what he uses in his stuff and told me grape seed oil, so maybe I'm slightly allergic to others, hope this helps
i just think that the uscle become used to the alcohol and oil in the injection
i have had pain in muscle that i have injected into more then once but it does seem that the worst pip i ever had was usually in an area that was new for me to inject
i doubt theres any real info to prove this theory anyway
just my experinces
i see alot of people dont agree with massaging the area because it will cause scar tissue im no sure how true that is, wouldnt people who go for deep tissue massage be full of scsar tissue.i thought that scar tissue is broken up using deep massaging techniques .tleast thats what a friend of mine who had her knee replaced was doing in physical therapy they had this rolloer that was prety hardcore ,stainless steel spur looking rollers on a hamdle that was used to rub the area to break up scar tissue