+ 81 Causes and Solutions to PIP problems
I figured i'd share this information that helped me get through the extreme pip i had with some over concentrated gear. I constantly see posts and questions about dealing with this, so heres the information that helped me.
What causes (non infection related) injection pain?
first the shorter the ester, the higher the melting point
secind, the concentration of the gear.
third, the solvents used.
fourth, injecting too quickly
fifth, virgin muscle.
Pain is caused when the oil/solvents are absorbed by the body and crystals are left behind.
Short esters (propionate or acetate) are harder, more painful crystals with melting points in the 100c range.
A hormone with a longer esters (excluding cypionate - cyp is long but also high melting point) can have a melting point in the 20c-40c range. not far off from human body temp.
Pain is also caused by concentration of your gear.
Building off of point 1: Let's say it takes the body 24 hours to absorb 1mL of a certain oil/solvent blend, and 24 hours to absorb 50mg of Testosterone Propionate. If 50mg (or less) of testosterone propionate is in 1mL of that oil, this injection should be painless. On the other hand, if 100mg of testosterone propionate is in that same 1mL of solution, then after 24 hours the body will have absorbed 50mg and 1mL, leaving 50mg behind in the injection area, crystalized and painful.
Its better to shoot 3mL of 50mg/mL Testosterone Propionate than 1mL of 150mg/mL Testosterone Propionate.
This is also why water based suspensions (Testosterone base/no ester, Winstrol ) hurt the most, water is very easily absorbed in the body
The solvents used can cause pain in 2 ways. Benzyl alcohol (BA) is used at 1%-2% as a preservative and antiseptic. If the alcohol content is too high the gear will burn. Pain in the first 24 hours is usually caused by heavy solvents, pain in the next few hours is usually cause by crystalization. Another way is a bad recipe. if someone used 2% BA, and the rest of the solution oil, the mg/mL would have to be low due to oil's weak ability to hold crystals. On the other hand, a recipe like 2% BA, 5% Guaiacol (super solvent), 10% Benzyl Salicylate (liquid asprin) with the filler split 50:50 between Ethyl Oleate (oil/solvent hybrid) and normal oil should be far less painful.
If you inject too quickly it can tear tissue.
If your muscle is new to the hormone, it will absorb the hormone very slowly, but absorb the oil/solvent very quickly. This will cause more crystalization and pain. As your muscles recognize the hormones, they will be absorbed more quickly, thus less pain. The deeper you inject into the center of a muscle group, the better.
How do I prevent pain before I inject?
Cut your shots 50:50 with sterile filtered oil. If you want to use 50mg of Testosterone Propionate, and you have 100mg/mL Testosterone Propionate- pull 0.5mL of your test prop, and 0.5mL of sterile filtered oil to shoot 1mL of 50mg/mL Testosterone Propionate. This is the #1 best way.
Dont bother with b-12, its water based- absorbed so quickly it will have little to no impact.
Before you shoot, it can help to warm your gear some (especially suspensions). You could put the vial in the bathroom sink and let hot water run over the vial for 2 minutes, and shake well. This will lower the oils viscosity also making it easier it pull into the syringe.
Inject slowly, take 30 seconds per mL. Use a 25g pin to inject so it forces you to move slowly.
If none of these work you could have dirty gear. Its possible there could be particles (although bacteriostatic) in the gear that are not causing infection, but still cause in site infection that made it through a filter.
How do I deal with pain once I have it?
The worst thing you can do is ice it. Cold will help the crystals fall out of solution/suspension.
Its okay to take some ibuprofin to decrease the swelling, and help with pain.
Also being in a hot tub, or jacuzzi, or warm bubble bath will help melt the crystals down. Using a heating pad can help also.
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Daily injections and swap sites bro
DeadliftTommyGreat breakdown -- super helpful for anyone dealing with nasty PIP. Cutting with oil, warming the vial, and slow injections are game changers — definitely info worth bookmarking.
Inject every day , seems like a shit show with 100 needles but it kept my injection site reaction down. 7 small shots in adipose fat instead of muscle , its been shown intramuscular and fat injections are no different in serum levels.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9006970/
I use NCBI for references on all my supplements and medication.
Great information, thank you.
I prefer delts but my 400mg/ml says otherwise lol
ANOTHER GREAT READ THANKS FOR THE INSIGHT BROTHA
I have this problem on prop this cycle after about 12 pins only about 4 have been ok the rest leaving a lump for about 5 days sometimes painful, but only pin in top of the butt outside, maybe im going too fast or maybe try another test maybe c or e .any advice
AnonHow many places do you pin, 2? 4?
Also after shooting your gear make sure to rub/massage the area VERY thoroughly to disperse the gear so it does dot get incapsulated into a big ball or cause a hematoma.
TricepatopsAsk Rustyhooker what he thinks about that. He says it tears the muscle and is worse for you.
great article thankyou! i need to slow down when injecting i think
going on day three peg legging virgin muscle in the quad mixed half ml test prop with half ml sust swelling and red ness working its way to my knee looking little better this evening. will this always do this if so im switching to test c
I believe the length of sharp can have a lot to do with it. I'm sure most are smarter than me and know better than to use a short lil thing for intramuscular inj. But I was using 3/4 inch because thats all I could get my hands on but I figured I dont have much fat on me (or muscle) so it should be fine. When I kept lumping up I tried a 1 inch and wow what a difference.
Tonyb121985DHB have yet to find without pip
TricepatopsI know of a few brands that aren't bad at all. I am not sure if I can say over this but I am taking 130mgs per inject with test c or mixed test.
100mg/ml is a lot more tolerable than 200mg/ml.
Tonyb121985Very true! That sounds terrible. I need to find place to buy just oil to dilute. I have 150mg/ml
I can help you with this. Message me and I will walk you through this process.
mine have always been related to high percent solvents and when I used non-estered
Had major pip with some sus 350 even a 1/4 ml would knot up on me.
TricepatopsIf it is by two certain. Labs it isn't Sust it is 50mgs prop 100mgs cyp and 200eth.
Molinin302Pretty sure I'm using the same product right now, and it's very very legit. I was mixing it with Mast E, and keeping it in the glute, fridge I went.quad, not mixed. Still a little sore. No lump, swelling, or redness, just discomfort. Lesson learned, if it's the PP it's very good. Ridiculously good, just have to use it properly. Lesson learned. (Was .05ml not warmed, 25g 1" needle)
what are you using sus350 for? are you using it on a monosicycle?
Ordered it for a guy and he literally gave it back to me told me he couldn’t use it had his whole leg hurt, so I gave it a couple shots to see what the big deal was
I would use it with some masteron P ,if you don't want to get a lot of volume and better look rockier, or with a boldenone if you want volume, that will help remove the pip
Injected in my left deltoid and I got the usually pip from high concentration but the swelling some how moved down my arm to my elbow. Im sure its not infection but from my shoulder becoming rock hard and swollen and me trying to move it and stretch it I believe did it. Anyone have input or know something I don't about what happen? Thanks
It's obvious, you Injected a high concentration into your left deltoid.
Wouldn't surprise my if you pinned through or between deltoids as well.
A heating pad works. I used it yesterday and gave myself a massage. Today I feel a whole lot better
Hey what's up Im JB and I was wondering since it's my first time with the supplements online.My twin brother uses it all the time but I was wondering if you heard of Underwire Bras ? Wondering if the[ir] reputation is ok or is the support not worth it?
https://www.eroids.com/reviews
1) Read the RULES
2) Read the RULES again.
3) Read the RULES again, only slowly this time.
4) Read the RULES again, out loud this time.
5) We do NOT discuss sources in the open forum. Period.
6) Concerns your user name,....... James.
ETA: if your name isn't James ,...... disregard #6.
I made 520mg/ml Test homebrew and the PIP was crippling. It wasn't the solvents but purely based on crystals being left behind when the oil gets absorbed by the muscle.
Just a friendly heads up,....... we do not talk about home brewing in regards to steroids. Home brewing talk about beer is allowed but is probably a different forum.
I had a horrible experience with an UGL. I had gotten a 500mg/ml Test E and 200mg/ml 1-Test Cyp. The PIP was horrendous. I got Test Flu after every single injection. I had to stop after a month. I felt like I had a continuous flu for 4 weeks. I don't believe they were honest about the BA and BB ratios used. I would apply pressure to the injection site pre and post injection. Use a warm compress. Would warm up oils and inject very slowly. Nothing I did would help. My body wouldn't adapt. I was doing 1/2 CC of each compound 2x a week.
I’d never try any long ester over 300mg per ml.
I've done a high mg testosterone enanthate that was relatively painless. Test E has a lower melting point and also doesn't require as much solvent as other steroids. Equipoise is another product that can be made high mg without much PIP.
I've noticed its different from lab to lab which has always made me think it's high levels of benzyl alcohol used by lower grade UGLs thinking it will "sterilize" their products or extend shelf life. I agree high concentration is a factor but in my case mg/ml have always been consistent.
If I get bad PIP I lay on a heating pad! That always helped me.
Nice read. I ran gear for ten years back in the 90s and don't remember getting PIP with anything available back then except Winstrol V.
Now that I'm cycling again I've been getting pretty bad PIP with a Test C/NPP cycle. Not as bad as injectable Winstrol, but pretty damn bad. This past year I've run pharma Test C, Para Pharma Testo C and Para Pharma Trenbo A with zero PIP. But this NPP from Para is kicking my ass a little bit. I was running 1 ml Test C (250mg) with 1 ml NPP (150mg) EOD and have recently cut the dose in half, mainly to see if the reduced volume helped with the PIP. No help at all.
I warm all my oils before pinning, but I may need to go slower on the injection. WRT the "sterile filtered oil" ... any suggestions on something available OTC to cut the NPP with? Can it be bought at a pharmacy? I work in health care and have access to a lot of stuff. I'll ask around at work about it, too.
Could PIP be caused by old gear? I have sus 400 that might be 3 years old and it is an easy shot until 3 days later. A lot of pain. TIA
PIP no, an abscess from rancid carrier oil sure.
Sus 400, ..... can pretty much guarantee PIP.
Great post thanks. I've been having issues pinning turns out I don't do well with ethyl oleate so I turned to a different source and having the same issues he uses mct oil
jt144977Unless your using high concentration injecting too quickly will be main cause of pip and or knot. Don’t heat up tren.
AnonSlowly inject 1ml of prop in your calf..you will have pip.
Speed definitely matters, but site location, ester, (suspension or base I mean really) and volume compared to the size of the site have a lot more to do with it I'd say. If you're squeezing so hard and fast your knuckles turn white and it takes 3 seconds for 1ml, you're gonna have a bad time, yes..
Also when you're warming gear up, I'm hoping you're not actually cooking it..hot water from the tap is plenty. I only use 27g pins and the oil slips through no problem with just the heat from the tap.
I've heated tren a mixed with prop and done that for weeks with 8 different sites, almost no pip because it's a small volume and infrequent location use.
Side note, don't do tren. It's bad mmkay? I wish I never touched it.
zmlxnqf0904Very useful infomation! Thank you sir!
Regarding the advice of heating the vial under a faucet before drawing the oil, is it ok to do this multiple times without potentially damaging the compound? For example, could I safely assume that I wouldn't damage test prop if I did this for 20 injections (assuming .5mL shots from a 10mL vial)? Or is it better to heat the barrel of the syringe once the compound has been drawn?
Couple of things: first, sink water = bacteria. Not wise to submerse your vile in sink water. Second, heating won’t damage the hormone. Just don’t submerge the the top. Dry heat is safer.
It's a lot easier, quicker, and safer to draw the oil into a syringe and place it in a glass of hot water than to try and warm an entire vial.
Cap the draw needle before placing it in the water.
Place the syringe in the glass, do not submerge the syringe, use enough water to submerge the barrel to just above the oil level.
Wait a few mins, (good time to prep your injection site)
Swap out the draw needle with the inject needle after the oil has been warmed.
And no, the oil isn't going to get so hot that you're going to leach anything from the plunger. And no, the water is not going to contaminate the syringe barrel or hub any more than your hands are.
Understood. Thank you.
I put the barrel on a heating pad before pinning, also big pins with primo suck, 2.5cc would leave a lump in the glute, and a dead arm in the delt. So I went to daily pins instead of 3x/week, no more PIP. Also sitting on/ applying heating pad to the area helps post inj. Also found that resting a pillow on your lap while sitting down stops the shakiness of a delt pin since you aren't trying to hold your whole arm steady.
I tried DHB for about 4 weeks until I ended up with a swollen left hip and left pec with draining fluid in the soft tissue around it. No infection(no fever or signs at the sight) just complete crystallization in my muscles and my body trying to get rid of it. Been 5 days now. Heating pad, aspirin, etc. SUCKS! I’m on show prep and totally can’t do shit right now.