+ 63 TRENBOLONE: how to destroy a myth
We have had a lot of discussion about tren recently. Most of the posts published were rude and impolite. Thread degenerated into caos and insults so most of the posts were deleted. I agree with that.
Now I want to talk about Tren only Tren and nothing else.
First of all Tren was never approved for human use. In the late nineties tren was manifacturaed by a France company named Negma, its production was disontinued untill 1997's when it definetively ceased. Its commercial name was Parabolan. A mith was born. Remember that original Parabolan contained Trenbolone Hexahydrobenzylcarbonate the only chemical version ever approved for human use. As tren was almost never used for human use, if not for a short period of time,there is no medical research about it.
Tren is a steroid used by veterinarians on livestock to increase muscle growth and appetite. One feature of trenbolone that must be noted is its ability to improve feed efficiency and mineral absorption in animals given the drug. To help you understand what this means for you, feed efficiency is a measurement of how much of an animals diet is converted into meat, and the more food it takes to produce this meat, the lower the efficiency. Conversely, the less food it takes to produce meat the, higher the efficiency well you get the idea. Animals given trenbolone gained high quality weight without having their diet adjusted, thus improving feed efficiency. What does this translate to for the hard training athlete? The food you eat will be better utilized for building lean muscle, and vitamins and minerals are also better absorbed which may keep you healthier during cycle.
Why is Tren so powerful ??? Before answering this question we have to shed an eye on hormonal system and testosterone in particular.
Testosterone is a steroid hormone from the androgen group and is found in mammals, reptiles,birds,and other vertebrates. In mammals, testosterone is primarily secreted in the testes of males and the ovaries of females, although small amounts are also secreted by the adrenal glands. It is the principal male sex hormone and an anabolic steroid.
Particular properties of testosterone that are of note include that it converts enzymatically both to DHT and to estradiol (the most important of the estrogens). Since mother nature knows very well how to maintain balance part of the testosterone produced is converted in two different hormones to balance the whole system.
Of the "free" testosterone that interacts at the tissue level, much of it is converted within the cells to DHT - a more potent androgen - by the enzyme 5-alpha reductase. In the prostate, for example, this conversion is thought to be necessary for physiologic effects.
The conversion of testosterone into estrogens (estriol, estrone and estradiol) is governed by the aromatase enzyme complex and occurs mainly in the liver, brain and fat tissue.
To sum it up: As an example if you produce 100 mg of testosterone 5-10% is converted in DHT and 30-40% is converted in estrogen. Is it clear? If you have produced 100mg of testsosterone you will end up having 50mg of testosterone along with 10mg of DHT and 40mg of estrogen. As far as Tren is concerned this convertion do not occur.
Trenbolones chemical structure makes it resistant to the aromatize enzyme (conversion to estrogen) thus absolutely no percentage of trenbolone will convert to estrogen.
Trenbolone administration would not promote estrogenic side effects such as breast tissue growth in men (gynecomastia, bitch tits) accelerated fat gain, decline in fat break down and water retention trenbolone.
Trenbolone is also resistant to the 5- alpha-reductase enzyme.
What does it mean? That if you take 100 mg of trenbolone you will not have any conversation neither in DHT nor in estrogen.
That's way Tren milligram per milligram is more powerful than testosterone. 100mg of trenbolone holds 100mg of the same substance while 100mg of testosterone becomes 50mg of testosterone, 40mg of estrogen and 10mg of DHT. That it why tren is 5 times more powerful than testosterone.
Trenbolone is also a noted progestin: it binds to the receptor of the female sex hormone progesterone (with about 60% of the actual strength progesterone).
If tren is 5 times more powerful than testosterone why should I take the same dosage of testosterone? On the contrary I should take 5 times less tren's dosage than testosterone.
Most of the people report that Trenbolobne has very bad side effect. But if you look at it carefully are simply the same side effects that can be experienced by a testosterone abuse. Here is the link where i found testosterone side effects http://www.drugs.com/sfx/testosterone-side-effects.html
Testosterone side effects include: Severe allergic reactions (rash; hives; itching; difficulty breathing; tightness in the chest; swelling of the mouth, face, lips, or tongue); breast growth or pain; dark urine or light-colored bowel movements; depression or mood changes; dizziness; gingivitis; interrupted breathing while sleeping; loss of appetite; nausea; painful or prolonged erection; stomach pain; swelling of the ankles or legs; urination problems; weight gain; yellowing of the skin or eyes.
As you can see these are the same side effects reported by tren users.
Tren is a mith, an urban legend nothing more nothing less. Its use is safe untill you do not exceed the fair dosage and do not abuse of it. Most of the idiots out there runned dosage that were extremely dangerous because as I explained tren is 5 times more powerful than testosterone. So you will experience a lot of bad effects unless you run it in low dosage. That's all.
I don't want to persuade you to run Tren neither as you stop reading this thread nor to run it indiscriminately for the next cycle. I just want you to know that Tren is safe only if you know it and you comprehend that it is very very powerful as we have mentioned above.
In nature all the chemical substance could be safe or could be dangerous.
It depends by the quantity you use. Did you know that also water could be toxic?.
It is called water poisoning: "Water intoxication, also known as hyper-hydration, water poisoning, overhydration or hyponatremia, is a potentially fatal disturbance in brain functions that results when the normal balance of electrolytes in the body is pushed outside of safe limits by over-consumption of water."
Tren once more is a mith a stupid urban legend born because stupid guys used it without awareness, cogniction, knowledge, wisdom but only ignorance, stupidity and lack of though. The world of steroids is full of ignorance and stupidity and many people try to pursue the path of least resistent abusing and taking massive dose of chemical substance that could be very dangerous for your health.
My aim here is to let you know that:
1)steroids are drugs.
2)drugs can be dangerous to your health.
3)all chemical substances could be safe or dangerous. It is dose related.
4)Knowing that Tren is 5 times more powerful than testosterone you have to keep tren/testosterone ratio in 1/5 as mentioned above. It means if you run 250mg/week of testosterone you will need only 50mg of Tren to keep the fair ratio 1/5:250mg/5=50mg.
5)super-machomen doses or mega dose are unnecessary and stupid and they can be very harmful.
6)if you know the chemistry behind a substance you can use it safely.
7)information is all, without information you are cut off.
Remember that ignorance and stupidity are free and cheap.
Conclusion: the real master isn't who denies you to make your experiences but who makes you do your experiences safely...
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phil113kgIs this a typo? Did you mean ED verses once a week? I'm under the impression that Hex is like TNE in the sense that it is taken before a workout.
trenbolone Hexahydrobenzylcarbonate (tren hex aka Parabolin). The hex ester is actually very long ester. Parabolin was the only form of Tren ever approved for human consumption, but that was short lived (if i'm not mistaken). they chose the hex ester because it is long and ideal for injection once every 2 weeks. This is what they had in mind anyway. But no, hex is nothing like TNE brother.
For what i have search the Hex ester has a active-life of 10.5 days. Just like Enanthate, except that Hex has an extra oxygen atom attached to it. Using it right now and loving what i see. May be just placebo but hell i feel stronger everyday. Definitelly an awesome compound in my book.
i ran a cycle of 500test e/300 tren and it was my favorite every week i was increasin lifts and seein noticable gains. only side effects i had were acne on the shoulders and sweatin a lot lol.. other then tht i recommended tren to all of my gym friends and a few of them took it and had similar results wit no regrets. tren is by far my favorite
AnonI read somewhere else that u should keep testosterone to a maximum of 250mg and always run tren at a 2/1 ratio due to the fact tren hogs the receptors and the free testosterone will only end up converting to estrogen!? This assumption had nothing to do with the fact it is 5 times more powerful then test but due to the fact it is more efficient at binding to receptors. Thus encouraging the conversion of test to est....!? Anyone care to talk some more on test/tren ratios?! With and without sufficient ai's, based on bodyweight, diet, etc? I dont plan on using tren anytime soon but really keen to learn more about it!!!!
Great. Post
started tren ace 4weeks ago and after maybe 5 previous cycles this is by far the best it seem that the pros far outweigh the cons in my case. I am doing a 50/50 split tren/test and all everything seems to be fine btw great post and good discussion
So much BS in this thread, will make a nice big post tomorrow to finally clear everyone's misconceptions about tren. As there have been medical studies conducted which are peer reviewed, which refute most of the OP. Which is full of blatant miss-truths, mostly from his own ignorance or what he feels to be correct with his limited understanding.
I'l make one clear point before I begin tomorrow, Tren is less androgenic then testosterone, so ignore the 500:500 rating that has just been made up on steroid.forum.com profile section. Yes, you heard it! It is less androgenic, and most of peoples troubles come from the testosterone at high doses combined with the tren, not the other way around like OP is advocating. Its androgenic rating is in between that of Deca and testosterone. Meaning less unwanted androgenic sides, IE hair growth, hair loss, acne etc...
Oh and OP it can result in gyno, from progesterone/prolactin.
Jeeeeezus... People are so misinformed. Please ignore the op. 5 to 1 test to tren makes no sense. The op doesnt seem to understand why test is the base for any stack including tren.
When stacking anything with test, dosage should be equivalent to trt dose you would get from the doctor ~100mg/wk. the reason why you have to stack test with other compounds is because of hpta shutdown. Tren, deca, mast...etc.. It all shuts you down. When this happens, your body is no longer producing its own test. Your body NEEDS test to function properly. Testosterones function is not simply to make you big, it has other important functions in the body. This is why a small dose of test is required when doing other compounds- to keep your body working properly.
I personally take 100mg of test and 400mg of tren per week. Minimal sides, great results. 500mg + of tren should only be left for the pros that compete for a living. Most of us do not need to be doing that much. If youre a newb to tren, stick to tren ace. Tren e should be left to people who have experience with this compound and know exactly how their bodies react to it.
Great info, thx !
Hi all I'm here to learn too and have a simple question, can one of the gurus or someone with considerable knowledge please give the counter argument?
Why is tren so bad/good? I understand the maths the 5:1 ratio and this guy explains it well in simple terms, I've read a few pages of replies and all I seems wait till your more experienced, it's for your 6 or more cycle etc...
I'm prepared to wait that long but can someone please elaborate on its not for you yet? If I google itits just bro science, I'm ready to accept all advice the reason is the gurus have been there and done it.
To put it simply, there are a few reasons they tell you to wait. For starters you can make incredible gains with compounds that are much less harsh even at lower doses during your first few cycles. You should use and get a good handle on most other compounds prior to using tren. Especially other 19-nors (Deca, NPP). The objective is to gauge your body's response to these other compounds and different doses to find your sweet spots for each. Once you have a good idea of what kind of gains you make and how you respond to others, then you're ready to try tren. Even then it should be taken in baby steps. You ask why is it good/bad? Well it's the most effective compound I have ever used! There is nothing that will come close to the strength gains you'll get. The lean, dense, muscle mass you'll gain is second to none. I shouldn't say this but even if your diet isn't the greatest you'll make excellent gains. It was designed to put on lean mass with a higher feed efficiency in cattle. Meaning they didn't eat any more than usual but still gained the mass! Not saying that you should do that. I fact you shouldn't use anything if your training and diet aren't in check. Why is it bad? Well it has a harsh effect on Blood pressure which can effect your mood, make you really irritable and even hostile. Everyone is different but this is a common side. Also nothing will shut down the htpa harder than tren. I won't run it more than 4 weeks at a time. It doesn't aromatise but can cause some nasty prolactin sides. Milk producing gyno anyone? You'll need caber on hand. I sure you'll find a good protocol here. Insomnia is another big one. Sweating profusely. Horrible acne. Put it this way, it can be the best and worst thing you ever do in your life. It deserves respect and isn't something any new users (no matter their age) should jump in on. There are some excellent posts around here on that and anything else you may want to know. Do some research bro!
Thanks so much for the reply mate. I genuinely appreciate it, no one was giving the counter side and like everyone else I was thinking is it that bad then. Again thanks regards dar
Not a problem man! Tren is a touchy subject around here. For good reason but ppl are afraid to discuss the good in tren. It's a ying yang bro! Could go either way. You won't know until you take that road but you have a lot of other compounds to explore prior! Good luck and do some reading. You'll find a wealth of info on this site
Good post and discussion everyone. Been contemplating running some Tren on my next cycle. After this thread, and other readings, I think I'll hold off the Tren for now.
I found this a really great read. Since I'm only a 2nd cycle guy tren is still way out in far right field for me. I have heard people say dont Tren until 8-10 cycles.
I am aware all drugs have mental side effects. You must be able to stay cool nomatter what, i any situation. Don't be afraid to admit your wrong alot, and cool down.
I may or may not try tren one day. It will be at a low dose, like how I run everything that is body chemistry related
I JUST WANT TO ADD!!! I HAVE NO DESIRE TO EXPERIMENT WITH TREN!!!
For any of my mentors here! I AM LISTENING!! I'm not going to consider this in my near future (8-10) cycles!!!!
skalpayep, unfortunately some of know deep down we are phycopaths haha i dunno if i want to know what id do on tren. haha i have fucked up thoughts already, on tren id actually beat the shit out of someone rather than just fantasizing about it lol
I hear you bro... But Know one can use substance as an excuse in this day in age really. I never get mad at people around me visibly. I don't take things personally. Even when people try to absofuckinglutely try to take me down I kill them with kindness. Now if you can take tren... and make others around you conform to your leadership, and respond with kindness then perhaps enlightenment is just around the corner. I dont think that this is being expressed like "ROID RAGE" IS
I speak to a few people here that are on tren, and never do they act like an asshole or go crazy. To my short membership they dont.
really when it comes down to... it's what's inside of you. The drunk starting fights and mouthing off, he really wants to do it sober. The drug addict smoking rox in the basment on a 48hour jerk fest really wants to do it sober.
The way some chemicals lead us towards natural expression, says alot more than just "the Tren make you kwazy" My boy told me ROID RAGE and The kitchen dont mix. JUDGEMENT I love cooking, thats my outlet. Not a place where I go to get angry. Its where I go to get sane. In the fiery madness and chaos I find inner peace everyday.
You need to find outlets to express your self.
Go start a soup kitchen, volunteer somewhere... or paint a mural. Go out in public on a soap box and warn of the Illuminati. Find whats making you mad and let it out peacefully.
Dont even think for a second you can honestly ever blame your behavior on a substance.
skalpanah, thats the thing. i havent even cycled but i rage sometimes. i have minor anger management issues already so i know id get even worse if i was to take tren. not saying tren would cause it, its already present lol
I used to get really angry after I found out my ex cheated on me in iraq. I cant even say some of the things I was thinking when I would be in Times square subway. Just standing and waiting for the train. It took me breaking up with her, and It took years after to soothe the depression.
No easy days when you have a lot of pent op feelings!
Can someone change the title from "mith" to "myth" please? It bothers me every time I come on this board lol.
Is that better?
skalpagood read, but what of the weird phychological sides i hear about when discussing tren. the weird nightmares, extreme jelously/protectiveness over a mate, violent thoughts and overwhelming aggression at moments. other than the obvious physical sides displayed here, do you think theres any real long term side effects as far as psychologically?
SGZIve done many tren cycles in the past. Naturally , even off cycle Im kind of jealous as is. I have noticed on tren I can almost have jealous paranoia, and I do notice increased irritability. For me its a learning experience and I try to remember and keep it on check. I will be jumping on some tren e next week. So I might start meditating again or something lol. Overall all though, you do get great gains, but if someone is already violent or mentally unstable, in my opinion it can increase it during cycle.As far as long term side effects, I only have myself to judge on that and I dont think so.
great info mate, Ive been a bitch and wanted to use tren-e @ 200-400mg per week.
Ive used 3g of test, 2g deca, 150mg anavar, 200mg anadrol, slin.... But always been scared of tren due to the amount of mental sides, but it always seemed that it was the high doses like 100mg tren-ace daily that caused the probs? 2-3g of test/week is easily tolerated (for me anyway?)with an AI, blood pressure meds, and crestor..
Gona add tren-e to my next cycle, sounds like a better alternative to HGH for us younger blokes, Tren-ace seems to cause sides do to rapid fluctuations from what ive read? and tren cough.... Hope to see more input on this thread, alot of helpful posts from everyone else too!!
+1
PS.. Thanks for taking to the time to lay the info out in a way that rock apes like myself can understand
It all makes sence but why then are rip blends of equal parts?
Anything other then what the body requires to live such as water, proteins, fats, oxygen,vitamins, minerals, is considered a toxin. That would also include aspirin, Tylenol, ect. also too much of anything will hurt ya. Tren is a beast, if you have used Test E or Test C and are moving up to Tren, you will be blown away by the difference. Tren is just in a league of its own and the more powerful the effects to the human body the more chances of side effects. To say it is 5x more powerful is one thing, to use it is another. Tread lightly with Tren.
I love how the article implies that because water can harm u at high doses tren is safe at lower doses. Tren makes cows grow muscle even though they stand there and eat grass all day. Tren must make some pretty substantial biological changes to accomplish that. Nobody really knows what the effects are on the human body. I use tren...but to imply that its safe at any dose seems a little irresponsible IMO.
dragonsfly033To complete this topic as wimpy pointed out.
This is the simple and obvious explanation why trenbolone is 5 times more potent than testosterone.
"...As you may already understand the anabolic and androgenic rating of all steroids is matched up against testosterone, which carries an anabolic rating of 100 and an androgenic rating of 100 as well. It is by the testosterone hormone in-which all other steroids are measured and in the case of Trenbolone we have a steroidal hormone that is 500 times more anabolic as well as 500 times more androgenic. As testosterone in of itself is so powerful this alone should give you a very good idea as to how powerful Trenbolone truly is.
"...Trenbolone tremendously binds to the androgen receptors thereby promoting both growth and directly promoting fat-loss. The Trenbolone hormone is one of the very few anabolic androgenic steroids that can affect fat-loss in such a direct and positive fashion...."
http://www.trenbolone.com/
"...Trenbolone compounds have a binding affinity for the androgen receptor five times as high as that of testosterone.[6] Once metabolized, the drugs have the effect of increasing nitrogen uptake by muscles, leading to an increase in the rate of protein synthesis. It may also have the secondary effects of stimulating appetite and decreasing the rate of catabolism, as all anabolic steroids are believed to; however, it should be noted that catabolism likely increases significantly once the steroid is no longer taken...."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trenbolone
Explanation very simple. Trenbolone binds to androgen receptors five times more strongly than testosterone so even a small amount produces the greatest effects.
The below quoted text, taken directly from the author's text, contradicts with what the author earlier wrote. Based on the author's earlier reasoning, Tren is twice as effective in terms of its therapeutic effects. Out of 100mg of testosterone, 10mg is converted to DHT while 40mg is converted to estrogen. This leaves 50mg of testosterone. Tren neither converts to dht nor estrogen. Thus, 100mg of Tren is 100mg of Tren. 100mg is twice (NOT 5 times) as much as 50mg.
Additionally, the sentence contradicts because the author attempts to say that tren is "extremely" dangerous because it is more powerful. Although tren is more powerful in terms of therapeutic effects, it is not more powerful in terms of side effects. It is the side effects, NOT the therapeutic effects, that are dangerous. Therefore, based on the same facts elucidated by the author, tren is NOT more dangerous than testosterone.
Here's the quote in the article I'm referring to: "Most of the idiots out there runned dosage that were extremely dangerous because as I explained tren is 5 times more powerful than testosterone. So you will experience a lot of bad effects unless you run it in low dosage. That's all."
Woooow!! As long as I been running TREN its never been explained this way. Thanks man!!! Good FN info!!! I can't vote but I gotta give the thumbs up on this.
AnonMaybe I'm reading this wrong, possibley due to selective reading but is this saying run at a 1/5 ratio?
That makes no sense to me at that ratio a test tren cycle should be 500mg test e to 100mg tren e??
I agree that tren doesn't need to be used in stupid high doses but 1/5.. come on man, that's just silly.
Tren has some brutal side effects and is one of the more dangerous compounds we use but I've noticed Tren sides are based more on the test amount than the tren. I would much rather run Tren at a 5/1 ratio (tren/test) than a 1/5. Realistically I run about a 2/1 or 3/1 ratio with my cycles aways keeping my test lower.
Everyone has their sweet spot and their preference on how to run tren. If Running 5/1 test/tren works for you, go nuts but I can't say I agree with what I've read here..unless I'm interpreting the whole thing incorrectly.
dragonsfly033bro I understand you but my interpretation of this topic was different.
test/tren ratio 5/1 means that if you are running testosterone as a base compound in your cycle you need to add only small amount of tren to make it work properly. tren does not convert neither in estrogen nor in dihydrotestosterone and it sticks firmly to receptors and prevents other compounds to stick at the same receptors so if it is used in large amount it downregulate all receptors involved. Tren is a chemical substance laboratory man-made to feed cattle not to use in human bodies. So human body handles very bad a substance that is not present in human body and must be broken up by liver and other organs in metabolites that are unknown to him. chemical testosterone is a substance that mimics a natural hormone presents in human body and as a matter of fact it handles it very well with no toxicity at every dosage. have you ever heard of testosterone lethal dose ? no, because it can be used safely up to 1, 2 or 3 grams per week. try to pin 1 gram of tren and see what happens...remember that testosterone is either an hormone but also a pro-hormone since it converts in estrogen and dihydrotestosterone both necessary for the proper performance of human body...tren in this case is a unique substance that was created not for converting neither in estrogen nor in dihydrotestosterone and this is troublesome. testosterone also stimulates nervous system that is why you feel nervous and feel side effects when you use it. Tren is dangerous because it overstimulates nervous system improperly and that is why it can harm your health. tren at low dosage works amazingly well but when it is pinned at high dosage is dangerous and useless for building up a huge monster...
I simplified a lot because there would be a lot of things to talk about as far as hormones are concerned and unfortunately not many persons know body chemistry and metabolism correctly....hope to be useful...
I usually run tren and prop as a 1 to 1 ratio.
5 to 1 seems a bit overdone.
AnonI was being a bit facetious on the ratio. 5/1 is pretty crazy but I always runs my primarys higher.
500 tren to 300 test would be about my speed.
x2
Very very informative man thanks
sweet shits bro.. well time to reduce tren..
Having just started on 200mg a wk and already running 1g test I'm grateful for your post it has backed up my reasons for my dose despite the advice been to do 500mg a wk!! Stupid is as stupid does
Great post thanks
Yeah bro, go easy. If you got legit gear, a lil will go a long way. Some of these dudes run insane amounts and get away with it. I don't see the need at all. I run 3 doses of 75mg 3 times a week, basically eod and I'm ready to gorilla stomp. I honestly think a lot of these guys would see better results with lower doses and feel a whole lot healthier. Not too mention not need a bunch of other chemical substances. Injected into their bodies to counter act the sides of their receptor overloading dosages. My guess is most people are getting under dosed or bunk Tren, hence the success (or lack of failure) with such high numbers.
Couldnt agree more bro, I'm also convinced that a lot of tren is underdosed just shouldn't need the amounts I read about every day, Rome wasn't built in a day and I think so many guys are in such a hurry to progress they think tren is there one way ticket. Rather them than me!
Thanks for the reply mate.
Great article ! Thanks !
Thanks for the info bro it is very good read.
great post... quality info
Wow, great freaking post. Clears out al lot of myths. Tren is the real deal folks, its for experienced users only!
WOW! Eye-opening, and revealing insights into a substance I've been seeing alot of warnings against using.
One of the best post i ever read
good read! really respect tren for what it is getting ready to run a cycle with test tren eq any thoughts
Great article! alot of good info