Mvbstrong's picture
Mvbstrong
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Androgen receptor saturation/ degradation

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So I've been wondering about androgen receptors for a while, and basically I wanted to hear what people thought about a few things. First is I've heard that at a certain dose of AAS that the receptors become saturated and any more gear won't produce any more results I've heard this mostly from people who use low dose cycles and swear they work, but with the group of power lifters I train with they believe that more is better. Second how important is binding to the androgen receptor in Relation to gains? I ask this because anadrol which is crazy strong barely binds to the receptor while tren wich is also crazy strong binds extremely tightly to the receptor. lastly does switching a compound/ester during a cycle have an effect? Because with most drugs there is cross tolerance that builds up so would changing the compounds or esters really have any effect on the results of the cycle?

- K A P S I Z E -'s picture

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biguriel's picture

Agree with KAPSIZE. It's been studied and proven that your body produces more androgen receptors the more androgens you use. It's also been proven that even in people who've never used steroids, gains are proportional to dose at least up to the 4 figure mark. Even if you do saturate them - which will take quite a lot - they won't stay saturated for long. There are diminishing returns and doubling the dose will not double your gains, but more is never less, it's more.

Anabolic steroids work through various pathways, some involving other receptors and organs, and some happening past the receptor, the effects having to do with receptor ligands. In fact some studies indicate that the anabolic effects of testosterone acting directly as an agonist of the androgen receptor aren't even as significant as it's effect as an antagonist of the glucocorticoid receptor. IE blocking cortisol (which anabolic steroids do) has at least as much effect on your muscle mass gains as actually stimulating your androgen receptors.

- K A P S I Z E -'s picture

from my understanding, the whole "receptor down regulation" theory is a myth. having said that, when you first start out more is not better because your receptors can only accept so much. in reality, based on my reading and research its quite the opposite, receptors upregulate! the more time you use gear, the more your receptors are able to uptake. so its not to say more experienced users "need" more gear to get the same gains, its their bodies can actually "utilize" more gear. thats why beginners can respond great to 500mg of test weekly but if they push too much they will get loads of sides because all that excess hormone cant be utilized. once the body is conditioned through more and more AAS use then their bodies can utilize grams of gear no problem. great genetics isnt measured through "making great gains on low doses" , instead its having a body able to "accept and utilize the more AAS effectively."

low dose cycles are great, but diet is the culprit to achieving any bodybuilding goal. but to keep reaping the benefits of AAS your doses must match your bodys ability to accept the use the amounts you give it to get the most out of your use.

i cannot speak to the science behind how well certain compounds bind. as you stated anadrol is very weak but its one of my favorite compounds and works wonders. the only thing i really dwell on is using it with a strong binding compound like tren to maximize the use of each, therefore getting the best results from smart compound combining.

and i have noticed with some compounds, yes there is diminished returns after a certain amount of time. such as anadrol by the end of the second week of use, its about as much as youll see gains wise with drol. thats why, if you know Vike's pulse method 2on 2 off approach, it works very well. where as tren for instance, ime, i dont see much if any diminished returns. as GH15 has stated (i know, i know, some hate him some love him, but his writing does have some validity) tren really starts to shine after about the 9th week and transformation continues. (i am not recommending anyone do this, you need to learn your body FIRST and know what YOU personally can handle and dont be stupid!) but many people dont run tren this long, they use it for short bursts and come off for health or psychological reasons not for diminished results. because they do keep coming, ime. really, changing compounds is really goal oriented with keeping health (orals and liver for instance) intact while also knowing how long YOU can continue reaping benefits from certain compounds while continuing to reach your specific goal. hope i helped a bit

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VIKING EVOLUTION's picture

Yep!........... +3 brother Smile

- K A P S I Z E -'s picture

Cheers vike Smile

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MedDx's picture

You helped more than a bit...this is perfect...nice post...20 thumbs up!!

- K A P S I Z E -'s picture

Thanks med ;)

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