+ 7 Clomiphene Citrate (Clomid) - A Testosterone Therapy Alternative for Men with Low T
Hey Guys,
I'm a 45 year old healthy male , but about 3 years ago I had a bout with Low-T. At the time I was working out seriously 5 days a week, eating right and making nice gains in the gym.(285 bench and 365 squat) But out of nowhere I began to feel very lethargic throughout the day, and my mental focus was horrific. I had little to no energy and felt exhausted in my home office daily. I started to lose strength gains at the gym and my BF increased. I knew something was amiss, so I scheduled an appt w/ my Dr. and she did some BW and my T-Levels came back at 190. She referred me to an Endo and he explained to me what my options were:
- Androgel type medicine( Creams and Gels)
- Test E or C injections
- Clomid
He basically told me the gels and creams were popular but had poor results for the most part. Test injections had a higher success rate but this would be a MAJOR commitment. Clomid on the other hand, was a way in which I could "reboot" my system/body into producing test again at normal levels, and all it would take is doing 3 cycles(20days on 10 days off). No needles, vials or creams just a small 50 mg pill taken once a day. After 3 months if my levels didn't come back to normal range, we would discuss Test injections. Luckily for me after 3 mths of Clomid, my Test Levels came back at 550+ and I got my life back! The quality of my life and well being were back to normal and then some.
The reason for this post is because I'm reading a lot about people here rushing into TRT. TRT is pinning test for the rest of your natural life. For some it can be no problem and effective, but for others it can be an emotional rollercoaster. Clomid is super simple and effective, and is quickly becoming a 1st choice recommendation from a lot of Endo's today. If you suffer from Low-T don't just get 1 Endo's opinion......this is your body and your future health and well being that are on the line here! See at least a couple of Endo's and then weigh your options carefully. Remember pinning Test is a WEEKLY LIFE LONG COMMITMENT to NEEDLES, VIALS, OFFICE VISITS, and POSSIBLY MORE.
I'm attaching an extremely informative link about Clomid for Low-T from an Endocrinologist. I hope it can be of help to anyone with Low-T or is at a crossroads for treatment.
http://shiramillermd.com/blog/clomid-men-testosterone-alternative.html
Good Luck-
T-Rex
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This is very interesting. I've told myself for a while that at some point, I will go on TRT - whether prescribed or just cruising my own. I don't want to just live with low test, and assumed pinning was the only option.
I have heard clomid can have some nasty side effects for some people. I'm guessing that's person and dose-dependent. Did you notice any issues?
And also, will you have to run it again as test drops, and can you keep doing this forever? Ie. can this be a full pinning replacement, or will it only work for so long until your body just can't produce enough test anymore?
these are great questions you should have w/ your Endocrinologist after an examination. Read the attached link and it will give you a wealth of info./insight.
good luck
I was using clomid for low T for ~3 years. Diagnosed low T (mid-high 200's) at age 27, prescribed 25mg/ED, levels raised to mid 400's. Felt better than before, but still somewhat lethargic, decreased sex drive (for a 27yo). Recently switched to test cyp (few months in) and feel so much better. Levels are now 700's, sex drive is full blown, mood and Outlook on life is excellent. While I realize clomid is easier, cheaper, and (important for me) allows you to still be able to have kids, I felt clomid wasn't getting me to where I needed to be.
Just my 2 cents...
I recommend that you have some sperm cryogenically frozen. This way you can have kids if u want to down the road.
Listed the link to my history with TRT & low T below for more info, but do you really feel that future sperm count/strength could be affected by a run on test cyp for less than a year? I'm planning on reverting back to clomid (might suggest 50mg dosage per T-Rex) later this year once we start trying for kids. My endo said that this short of run shouldn't affect the count/strength after I taper off.
You got me worried now, may go beat it into an ice tray just in case. Jk... Kinda...
https://www.eroids.com/forum/general/over-40-trt/trt-30
I would go Clomid now, get your lady pregnant, and then pin away. Your sperm count will be effected from pinning test. How much varies greatly from person to person.
At least you gave it a shot with Clomid first. Maybe try 50 mg every day for a few cycles.....My T-levels shot up to 500+ on that from 190. Made me feel like a Greek god. Take your time a find out what works best for you
Did you ever try 25mg/ED? If so, did you notice a difference between that and your 50mg dose? I never upped to 50mg personally.
my doc prescribed 50 mg's right from the start
It's amazing how many doctors will tell you that your T-levels are "normal" when what they really, mean is "normal for your age"... That's not acceptable to me, and it shouldn't be to any man either.
I cant understand how a level of say 400 is good for every man on the planet. To me its as head scratching as looking at a BMI chart.
It's all relative. Some men have rock hard morning wood at 400 and recover quickly from lifting. Others feel like shit and can't get hard to save their life. We're all different.
It is wise of us here on eroids to be sure to ask, "how in the fuck do you feel? How do you recover?" before we simply say, "400 is low!"
(I felt like shit for a long time at 320, then after a year of no drinking, hard lifting and clean eating, I still felt like shit at 400. Doc said, "that's normal." After studying for six months here, I decided to self medicate TRT. I feel much better, but am now understanding the reality of "being a slave to the pin." Everything comes at a cost! We must inform men of the reality of testosterone use. Reality doesn't give a fuck about people's imaginary "hopes and dreams." I digress.) Cheers big JO!
"We're all different"...
So true... everyone doesn't react the same to gear, or training or food/eating. That's why not everyone at the gym is 250lbs bench pressing 400. If only it were that simple
I, too, understand the reality of lifting, diet and testosterone, all too well. I really wish there WAS a magic pill. It sure would make life easier. Thanks for the good mojo, T-Rex, and I thank you for sharing your experiences so candidly with this community. Together, we're better. (I sound like a political poster or something. I digress.) Cheers indeed! -ZeusM
I wish clomid was cheaper. I can get a months worth of test for a fraction of the cost.
you can get (100) Pharma Grade Clomid from sources here on Eroids for $56.....that's 5 cycles (20days on 10 days off)
(300) for $165....that's 15 cycles. No needles, vials, etc
Seems like every source I've researched is around $30 for 24 tabs. And I've researched a bunch...
IfbbmoeClomid definitely is an option but my friend was diagnosed with hypogonadism even though he had never cycled before and the clomid didn't help him because he had primary hypogonadism. For most of us it should help though. I personally have found that I recover better from a pct with clomid than with nolvadex
TRT is for life if you have secondary hypogonadism, how does clomiphene stand up for such long term use?
What are the potential side effects for such long term use?
Are there any clinical studies done on the long term side effects in males?
Or is this just a short term solution? if so, then what, we know the benefits medically for short term use, it works, simple, but we are talking about an alternative for testosterone injections, thats long term.
Preach!! I run clomid daily off cycle, 25mgs in the am/25mgs before bed... It's heaven sent... Keeps my test levels about 600 and keeps me sane..+1
Hey, I know this is an old post but just thought I'd ask - does Clomid give you any estro sides or anything else I should worry about? Thanks
NM, found the answer below. Lol
It's awesome to see new guys (you) using the database to learn. +1 for using this incredible resource (eroids) to further your education. Keep rocking, brother.
Doc scripted me 50mg 3xwk... Kept test around 880... So not sure if daily is all that much more beneficial ... But if it working for you, can't hate. We are all different
Interesting..... ever try adding some Proviron w/ that? I wonder if that would make your levels even higher(not that 600 isn't high)
I plan to do what sway does... Clomid has no negative effect on Hpta , proviron can, so id stay off that
X2
what about Proviron at just 25mg's?
Personally , I'd air on the safe side.
I forgot to mention my Estro did go up on the clomid, so have an AI on hand, lower doses than aas, but my Estro def shot up
Ha had to have an operation on my balls... Long story. Pre-op Test was 540. 4 months later w/ 50mg clomid 3 x week, test was 880.
Did a lot of researching & found no studies that show negative effects of long term use of clomid in men.
IMO, "the clomid makes me feel like shit and cry in a movie" is total BS. I feel damn good on it. It's a good drug IMO , and after 3 months of the above protocol ALL my levels were awesome, including sperm count , volume and motility and my wife got pregnant
Good info...thx
Glad to hear that. Honestly I felt the same way and I started to make even more gains at the gym.( effects of more T in your system) I felt like I had a competitive advantage w/out taking gear. Maybe that's why its on the banned substance list in major league sports.
Do a side by side comparison of the 2 substances
From the many studies I looked at with clomid (I am in the field), what I found was that it definitely helped a certain subset of people with hypogonadism to get their natural T back up.
But as a general treatment for TRT, it tends to not give the same improvements in mood/well being, etc, as regular TRT, likely due to the estrogenic action.
I thought about going the clomid route for myself due to my age (35, been on TRT 1 year), but after studying enough, and having experience with clomid LONG ago for PCT, I decided test injections would be better for me.
I think it's worth a shot, but unfortunately I'm well acquainted with the "professionals" in this area (being one), and most of these people don't have a clue about TRT. With clomid they are super excited about the NUMBER (test level), but that doesn't tell the whole story.
Symptoms and mood, those are the things that matter.
Not saying it's not reasonable to try, but I wouldn't jump the gun on it just yet...
Valid points ... But I will say I felt great on it with test At 880. You are correct that the Estro will go up, so an AI should be used this route, but for "me" I would rather cycle, pct, use clomid as a bridge instead of crusing on test only bc I want to keep sperm count/motility up until we are done having kids
I've been using clomid to boost test in between cycles. I'm taking 50mgs and my test went from 500 baseline to 1200, ( and i've gotten two sets of bloods to confirm that it's staying at 1,200) but yes, I also have to take a little AI to keep the estrogen in check. No crying or any BS like either. How should you taper off of clomid when you are ready to cycle again? Should you come off and let it clear your system? I'm doing a test E only cycle so I was thinking if i just stop taking clomid at my first shot it will clear my system by the time the test starts to kick.
yeah it's relatively quick acting so just stop it and start your cycle. I don't see any issues with that at all. Some stay on clomid during a cycle the whole time.
Thanks
Have you checked your levels after this protocol to see where your at now?
My levels have been fine for the past 3 yrs w/ a recent exception. In the last 6 mths I've been on a rather large supplement regimen. One of them being DHEA @ 100 mg's daily. Its suppressed my T-Levels(dhea) to 290 as of 10 days ago when I got BW done. I stopped the DHEA immediately and scheduled an appt w/ my Endo. Im hoping to avoid having to take anything to get them back, especially since I want to run a 12 week cycle of Test E soon....that will more then likely be on hold for a few mths
I asked cause I've seen people on the clomid protocol and yes it works but graduly go back down. I wouldn't run a cycle at that level your at now. It will be hard as hell to recover.
yeah im not in a rush. I would only run a test cycle w/ t-levels in the 500+ range.
I agree