+ 1 New to Tren
Hey, all. Thanks in advance for the advice.
I'm on long-term TRT, so I'm always on a baseline of prescribed test cyp of about 200mg/ week. That keeps my test levels at around 1500 and I have no sides at all when I take my prescribed Arimidex 0.25mg three times a week. This is going to be my in between cycles maintenance, so PCT is not a big concern for me at this point. (Incidentally I do BHCG twice a week at 1200 U per week just to maintain some testicular function)
I've gotten started back on the gear for the last 4 weeks with some extra Test E and Equipoise I bought while out of the country, and am currently doing Test 500mg/wk and Equipoise 600mg/wk. I've gained about 5 good pounds, and I'm ready to turn it up a notch. Also, I'm eager to start some meds that I've actually chosen, rather than just what I could get my hands on.
So I ordered some Tren Ace and Tren E, along with some dianabol.
My plan is to finish my run with the Equipoise I have (about another 2 weeks is all I have left) and simultaneously start daily Tren Ace of 75mg to stack on my Test E 500mg/wk.
My question is one I've not seen answered, although I'm sure it has been:
I was thinking about doing Tren E at the same time as the Tren Ace, and running it for the length of my cycle while stopping the Tren Ace after 4 weeks or so.
What do you guys think about jump starting Tren E with Tren Ace in order to get the ball rolling?
Is 500mg/ week of Test E a good starting place along with the Tren?
As for the Dianabol, I actually have to leave the country again for almost 3 weeks and I am not going to be able to eat the way I would like to, so my plan is to hold off on starting it until I'm back home and doing the last 4 weeks of the cycle with it.
Lastly, I'm so pleased about this board. I can't believe how much less expensive the prices can be at the reviewed sites compared to the above-board TRT I was getting through a compounding pharmacy and an MD. It is a total scam. I'm done with it once I run out of what I have.
Again, many thanks.
TD
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Ok, thanks everybody! I've done a bunch of research and somehow I didn't ever get that Tren was a bad idea for an intermediate user. I say intermediate, because I've been on a couple of cycles and done really well, have been bodybuilding for 25 years, have my diet on point and have been using test for over a year with minimal sides and a professional understanding of the endocrinology.
I'm not in a hurry. I am eager to learn and to be safe. I'll continue my Equipoise/ Test E cycle (once my order arrives I'll make another one to get enough to finish a longer cycle).
I'll hold off on the Tren and make my next round with nandrolone and T.
Just to be clear--I wasn't going to jump straight to 75mg Tren A a day, but I was thinking that was a reasonable target. I alos appreciate the advice about not using Tren A and Tren E together. I was just thinking I've seen some blends, read about how Tren E can take a bit to kick in and thought I would consider putting something like that together myself.
I'm really grateful for the board and for all the tough love!
Keep it coming!
TD
zewiJust trowing this out there.. Instead of taking the tren ride.. You might want to try 1test first. It acts just like tren.. It is as close as you can get to tren without using tren but with less sides. 1test scores a 200 tren scores a 500--however the only close to tren is 1test.
Test has an anabolic rating of 100 androgenic 100. Tren is 500 anabolic 500 androgenic. Definitely not trying to be a smart ass.
LOL... hes talking about 1test cyp bro... he is spot on.
Well I stand corrected! :-)
I thought it was a typo (the 1 in front of the test). 1test. I've never heard this term. Enlighten me
zewiyour good brother.
if your were someone else i might rage on you..lol..
I like rage! Internet dick swinging contests are entertaining too! I always get a kick out if those. Lol. But seriously, I am totally clueless as to what you're talking about and I would like to know.
I'm not a huge cyp fan. I'm sure I will be one day when I get tired of pinning but what is 1test cyp? It's has a rating of 200? This is an anabolic/androgenic rating?
Have a read of this brother.. this will set you straight with this stuff...
http://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/anabolic-steroids/lets-talk-abou...
So has anyone on Eroids actually run this stuff? Or survived the first pin? Sounds great except they can't pin it without crippling pain! Who's run this? Nevermind. Ill save it for the other thread. Don't wanna hijack this one anymore
It's all good. Information benefits us all. Keep it coming!
This thread as just opened bro...
http://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/anabolic-steroids/1-test-cyp.......
Thank you as usual!
That's a great attitude you've got there, +1 from me for taking it on board. We're here to help you make great gains but by doing it safely mate.
tread-mSo I love the words below and Nitti just laid it down like paint as did Z but let me step outside the box a tad expanding on there good judgment and use your own words. You said "I want to expand my experience". What you have laid out above will do that very well. Problem is its goling to be expanding your "bad experience". your experience as I read below makes this a horrible idea and thats before its a horribl idea all by itself. When you do get ready for tren, which is waaaay off IMO, you begin arolund 50 eod Ace as Nitti desribes and yhou feel your way through your tolerance. Doing that with T prop gives you mega control over sides and I would expand much further in its use and all the tricks of tren and avoiding sides capitalizing on tren effect but I think we do that when the time comes. Using your own words to expand your experience I think we do that by expandinding your good experience and scatch these ideas to begin that. Many compounds ahead of tren and what I'd love to do is talk about the real experience as to expasion of experience, the 24/7/365 diet plan. Never more important than at your age in order to achieve and btw, some great tren effect to be had with a simple var addition and proper carb manipulation. Last statement to think about..SKIPPING RUNGS ON THE LADDER IS NOT EXPERIENCE, ITS FAILURE TO EXPERIENCE PROPERLY WHICH IS SIMPLY FAILURE.
Well said. Thanks for the sage advice.
Just to fill in some holes about me--I'm diet obsessed and track every macro that goes in my mouth, which adheres to a pre-formed plan. I'm actually 12% right now because I'm trying to gain a few pounds and I've upped my calories on workout days to 30% over maintenance. I've also been experimenting with the 16 hour fast, 50% of my calories post workout, lean gains approach. Been doing it about 8 months and really liking it, though I wonder if it is a good idea while on cycle. Makes life a lot easier so I think I'll give it a try. Doing pretty well in my first 4 weeks. The point is, my diet is well tended.
Im also health obsessed and take several evidence based supplements. My wife happens to have a PhD in nutrition and researches cardiovascular disease, so between my medical training and her scientific training we do well on the health side of things.
Lastly, I've been training smart for decades. I've tried it all. HIT, high reps, low reps, more rest, more training, etc, etc. I've figured out what works for me, at least without the meds, and feel like I've optimized my genetic potential.
So, to sum up, I'm ready for this, I understand what's involved, and am humbly open to learning the stuff I'm just discovering.
Again, thanks for adding your voice and experience. This board is superb.
cdaddy7Well put Master T!!! Some much truth in the fact that why even chance your help and nasty sides with the premature use of a compound when there are so many other compounds to use as an option that have "Tren like" effects by merely dialing your diet in to make ur body conducive to ur goal...I always advise that a person have exhausted all means of diet/nutrition, training and lastly gear before considering Tren, which usually equals more than Ten cycles, hence my ten or more cycle rule of thumb...and most certainly if it is the proper time to bring Tren to the mix then i always recommend Tren with a compound like prop so that if the cycle goes south at any point u can abort and 3-5 days later it is back to norm....just always think It's best to be conservative and safe bc in the end what's the hurry....our true goal in this is longevity but with our health intact as well...great wisdom brother
tread-mWe dovetail nice brother and I think part of that is "whats the fing hurry" is always in our minds. Slow roll to the big show baby!
cdaddy7Very true T....we all can't be superstuds like Viking but we can sure as Hell give him a run for his money!!!! Lmao!!! You think we should invite him over for drinks? LMFAO!!!
tread-mHell he's over he now brother, V start his drankin early. His motto is "I drink more by 10 AM than most people do all day". Get your ass over here bruh! Lool
cdaddy7Hell I'm boarding up now and on my way!!! LOL
6 Weeks is NOT a cycle by any means. Ya cant just jump around because you dont need traditional pct. Side effects are gonna still be there. Research a proper cycle. And get proper time off.
a lot of vets already chimed in about their suggestion to stay away from tren so I dont want to beat a dead horse but i think they are right...im not experienced with it but id say if you arent planning on competing or havnt exhausted gains from all other compounds, why use it? it seems like you are rushing to fit every compound in one cycle. anyways, to shed a little more light on your question below...
"why not float from cycle to cycle with little to no time in between?"
while you are on your 200mg/week cruise, your receptors are seeing/processing the same amounts of test that it normally would if you body was still producing proper amounts of endo test. when you go on a blast you are going to flood your body with androgen hormones at at least 3x the normal rate. eventually your receptors are going to be densensitized and lose their affinity to bind to the target hormone. if you go on blast after blast your body will not be able to process your doses. This will leave excess testosterone to be aromatized and if you are taking a 19-nor it will lead to a huge build up of prolactin. these build ups are going to produce nasty sides that are going to come with no benefits since your body cannot process the hormone for its normal purpose. like zewi and nitti said below, all ass bind to the androgen receptor so switching up compounds isnt going to solve this issue. once you go into a cruise again your body will no longer see excess amounts and will be able to repair/resensitize your receptors. also if you go back to back cycles your strength and muscle size will continue to increase but your connective tissues will not catch up leaving your prone to injury
Good point on time off between. I'll definitely make that part of my process. Thanks a million.
Why tren? Just curious. As Zewi stated all AAS compete for the same receptors. Tren happens to have a much higher binding affinity than test which means its going to win the race to the receptors leavin you with a lot if free test and there's only one thing it can do. Convert to estro. A lot of guys want to try tren out long before they learn to gauge their bodies response to other compounds. IMO tren is the absolute best and absolute worst compound out there! Yes you'll get amazing super human strength gains. Yes your muscle will begin to feel like iron from it. But it will or CAN make you feel like absolute shit if you don't know how to use it. It can kill your libido completely. It can shut te HTPA down so hard that recovery will take so long it won't seem possible. Now you're a TRT guy so you may not have this issue but the fact remains. Tren will kill your endurance. It can make you so irritable and aggressive that you act totally out of character and in some cases become a danger. Nobody seems to understand these things. Yes you can make incredible gains from tren if you know wht you're doing. I say try nandrolone, primobolan, Masteron, boldenone etc before you bother wit tren. This is to everyone. I don't know if the 10 cycles under your belt thing is necessary. Some ppl may have 10 test cycles. Are they ready for tren? No! I personally cannot run the stuff more than 4 weeks at a time. It just takes too much of a toll on me. I start to really feel like shit. Lethargic, irritated, moody as hell, lacking motivation and energy not to mention I hit a wall around week 4 in gains. So again , if you're going to run tren ten use test prop with it and keep the doses moderate. Start small. Nothing Wrong with 50mg eod for someone using it for the first time. If all is well then increase it. Tweak your test p dose to help compensate if any negative sides show up. And they will! Whatever you do, have a healthy respect for the stuff! It's a hardcore compound. It's used to bulk up cattle 20 weeks prior to slaughter. That says plenty in itself.
Honestly I chose tren because all of my research has been saying it is the most effective. But I'm in no way married to the idea. I've heard about the sides and how to manage them, and I thought it was either going to be tren or nandrolone and so I picked tren.
But I totally get the concept all the vets are expressing as a mature approach. It is something to be worked up to and held as a high yield, high potential SE choice.
I'm certain I will try it, but I'm in no hurry. I'll get some other meds under my belt and then see how it goes. My plan all along has been to try different rational stacks as I know everyone has favorites and ones they don't like. Tren is just going further down my list now.
Thanks again, mate.
PROPS NITTI... +3 BROTHER
Thank you big brotha! People always direct tren related questions to me. But I'm no expert. I can only speak on my own behalf about my own experience. I appreciate the props
tread-mI hit my boy tres as well, thats some beautiful shit right there!
Thank you as well. There was another thread in steroids section about tren. My homeboy Gmoney directed the brother to me for guidance. I did my best to help without saying "don't use the shit". Bottom line some ppl will do what try want anyway so it's important to at least guide them right. This "Forbidden " topic of tren has me ready to throw in the towel on assistance. I got negged twice for what I ca only assume was givin advice at all. I guess I shoulda said "no don't use tren". Thanks for the recognition tread man! I do my best
tread-mNegged twice repped twice NOW WHAT! You brang it brother, all good!
I like to complian at least once a day! I'm good now. Thanks for sharing, lol
zewi"start daily Tren Ace of 75mg to stack on my Test E 500mg/wk."
So your going to take 375mg of tren a week with 500mg of test E.. When you have no idea how tren is going to react in your body---Also you do understand that Tren and Test go after the same receptors, and that Tren will win every time leaving the Test to convert to estro. IMO--when running tren the first time should always be with Test P and Tren A to understand how tren affects you. Start of with them equal 100mg EOD for both and adjust from there too 75mg test to 100mg tren EOD too 100mg tren ED and Test P at 50mg ED.. Your goal is to have tren more than Test.. Or at lest equal to test.
"I was thinking about doing Tren E at the same time as the Tren Ace, and running it for the length of my cycle while stopping the Tren Ace after 4 weeks or so."
This is about the dumbest thing you could do.. You have no idea how tren is going to affect you so you want to add both the Short and long ester.. Ill answer this for you----- NO
IMO before you go jumping to the king of the hill.. Learn about it some more. Once you do that do a shorter cycle with test p and tren a to see how tren effects you and from there you understand how you can get what you want out of it. However after seeing how you ran this last cycle
YOU ARE NOT READY FOR TREN!!
This
I would say using tren acetate as a kick-starter to tren E is too much. I would use one or the other, and something else as a kick-starter such as dbol or even a lower dose of test prop until the tren E kicks in.
Tren is one potent AAS though! Definitely start with conservative doses.
As for cycle to cycle without a rest period in between: I wouldn't recommend it. There is more to AAS side-effects than just natural test suppression, as you know I'm sure. So you would be pushing the risks even more going cycle to cycle. Depending on your cycle length and strength, I would take a 4-6 week break in between cycles. Hope this helps!
Tren is the best! I'm pretty much same stats as you, and when I run Tren my body responds very well to it, get really strong and lean. Pin that Tren bro, the sides are nasty I admit, trensomnia is a major one, but it will be your best cycle ever if you run Tren. Just my 2 cents.
This guy hasn't used AAS a great deal, don't think we should encourage using tren at this stage.
Ok, honestly I just skimmed through his post before work, I just saw he was talking about Tren and I myself am I big fan of it.
ReaRead before jumpin in and ruining this dudes life. Hes doing a 6wk cycle of test/eq and he thinks tren is the answer. A 6week eq cycle???
6 weeks of eq is worthless. Not trying to ruin dudes life lol ill give it a read next time
What are your stats and cycle experience?
I'm 39 yo, 5'9", 186 pounds at about 12%. I've been as heavy as 205, but not very lean at that weight. I've been training for 25 years. I've done a couple of cycles, but it was way back in college. In between I wasn't comfortable with cycling, mostly for professional reasons. But at this point I'm on TRT, so I figured it is a great time to get started.
I was on Dianabol and Sustanon on my first cycles, but I can't remember much more than that--it's been almost 20 years. I made some good gains and held on to most of them.
I've been on TRT for about a year and as I said, I've just started a Test E and Equipoise cycle. Doing well on it, but the Equipoise is not my first choice and now I'm looking to really try expand my experience.
I've got a medical background, so I'm pretty versed in all things hormonal and with injection technique, etc.
I'd like to be around 195-200 pounds and a bit leaner, so my ambitions are pretty reasonable, I think.
Cheers for the info. I'll be honest with you as you're my age and can no doubt take it lol! your cycle looks horrible!
Couple of main things:
Equipoise needs to be run longer, typically 16-18 weeks. It takes typically 8-12 weeks to start grabbing hold of you, so running it so short is a waste of money.
Oral finishers - in this case dbol. Horrible way to end a cycle, will bloat, fill you with water. Gives great strength increases, better used as a kickstart.
Tren - I'd leave alone for the time being until you've hot a few more cycles under your belt. Sides can be nasty, and you can achieve great results without it. Once you start using tren, there's nowhere else to go, nothing stronger etc. plenty of other compounds to try before using tren. Using Tren E first time around is a particularly bad idea. As it's a long ester, hence longer hlaf life, if things go wrong in terms of sides, there's not a lot you can do about it for 10-14 days while it gets out of your system. At least with tren acetate, that's more like 2-3 days
I'd suggest a major rethink, with a good bit of research around the site. With your medical background, you've got a head start on some. Probably not the feedback you wanted to hear, but trying to help you run a successful cycle rather than a train wreck. I'd be more inclined to leave the tren and dbol for a future cycle and see if you can get some more Equipoise and just keep it as a Test E & EQ run (say 16weeks etc).
You didn't mention AI and PCT - Have you got this in order?
I LIKE THAT REPLY TOO... SDM COMING ON STRONG MY BROTHER!... BRITISH BEEF AT ITS FINEST +3 FROM ME BROTHER... KEEP BRINGING ADVICE LIKE THIS I LOVE IT!
Cheers brother. Just passing on some of the knowledge you guys gave me....
tread-mThis is a badass piece of work right here brother. Get out of my head! Lol. No pct needed of course with trt but I just loved everything you said all spot on.
Sorry--I didn't mention that I'm on arimidex and BHCG on a regular weekly schedule per my TRT doctor's orders. So far it has been plenty to handle any sides on my test e/ equipoise cycle, but as I said, I'm not the standard PCT candidate because of TRT.
Thanks for the straightforward reply. Let me throw a couple of things out there and see what you think:
As far as the Equipoise--I know it is best run for long cycles, but I picked up some foreign stuff while out of the country and while I can get more on my return, I'd prefer not to smuggle it and it is not my first choice. I suppose I could order some to finish the 16 weeks, but as I said, it wasn't my first choice so I didn't add it to my first order.
As far as the Dbol--I just ordered it to round out my purchase. I was actually going to hold off on it until my next go for the reasons you mentioned, but I read somewhere that some like to use it at the end of a cycle. So I was rethinking it, but honestly, not my plan and I just threw it out there to get shot down as much as supported, so thanks for that.
Here's something that I'd like your honest opinion about (since I do appreciate it and can take it!): since I'm on TRT and will always have a baseline of just above high-normal test levels, is there any reason to cycle off? I understand switching it up to keep receptors guessing, but why not go from a test/ tren cycle into a test/dbol, etc? I'm actually open to what wisdom is out there on this topic, so I don't have a answer I most prefer.
Assuming my source is consistent, and since money isn't an issue for me, and I'm operating the assumption that my endogenous hormone production isn't coming back and thus the TRT, why not float from cycle to cycle with little to no time in between?
What do you think?
Big thanks,
TD
Thankfully I'm not (quite) yet on TRT, plenty of grey hair but the natural test is still hanging in there. As a result, there's better people to advise you about it. I believe most still follow an on/of cycle time protocol like anyone not on TRT, albeit not having to worry about 4 weeks of PCT etc.
Common sense would suggest to me that your receptors are going to take a hit, and your baseline test level (albeit artificial from your TRT) wouldn't get time to settle. I would guess you'd end up with more mood swings etc as a result and obviously reduce what natural test you are producing. Should you reach a point of saying no more TRT in later life, I'd guess you'd have more of a messy recovery.
Repeat, I'm no TRT expert. There is a TRT section, try and hook up with some of the guys in there, they're better equipped to help you on this.
FR & PM if you need any help mate. Happy to assist where I can.
Big thanks, brother. I might take you up on it soon!