Deca VS EQ
What are my goals? : Bring up lagging body parts, Abs, wider shoulders, more trap development, increase detail in back biceps and triceps, thicken/ widen legs by adding more hamtring + adductors to my training, gradually increase size/ strength, grow and mature muscle cells, maintain or stay under 12% body fat - 15% the highest. Add quality size but not a tidal wave of size that makes daily living a chore. Maintain good energy levels, stamina, and endurance, - feeling of well being / healthy. Having energy to spend time with friends, fam, wife, not only having energy to go to the gym, work and eat.
Stats:
Age: 28
Weight: 162
BF: 8%
Height: Recently Remeasured - 5"6.5
Cycles: 5 - See
My experience with Deca / NPP: have used 350 -500mg Quick gains noticeable in 4-6 weeks after 6weeks strength doesn’t significantly improve nor do gains - feeling of plateau every time - Yes I can add more calories and do so during this period but for the amount of extra calories and protein the gains aren’t relative to that initial 4-6week blow up
My experience with EQ: 600mg is the highest i’ve gone. My experience boils down to - “alright well I’m pinning a bunch of oil in my ass” “what’s the point of all this oil” “Yes I’m vascular - could it be from other compounds..?” “is my conditioning better?” for me with EQ and for many I understand patience is a virtue - So I’d say I made progress in the overall quality of muscle with EQ but slabs of meat - NO
So guys what's a more enjoyable / rewarding cycle? I'd like to hear some more experience with EQ, maybe I need to just check myself and remember that this is a marathon not a sprint. So in your guys experience what is a more appreciable cycle at the end of the day?
Thanks in advance - Bg
Diet Approach Update:
3 weeks straight then cycle between cutting diet for 7-10 days
Meal 1:
5 Whole Eggs, 1 cup oats
Meal 2: 5oz chicken + 6oz Sweet Potato
Meal 3: 6oz sweet potato
Meal 4: 5oz Beef + 3/4 cup rice + A1 Steak Sauce
Meal 5: 6oz Sweet potato
Meal 5.5 : 50g of Whey
Meal 6: 5oz Chicken + 6oz Sweet Potato
Meal 7: 3/4 cup rice
Meal 8: 5oz Beef + 3/4 cup rice + A1 steak sauce
Meal 9: 4oz chicken + 3/4 cup rice + 25g of fat from nut butter.
Macros : 280p, 350-380c, 90f = 3400kcal - 3550kcal
Cardio: Going to stay consistent with 20-25mins post workout 3x a week
Cutting diet 7-10days
Meal 1: 5 Whole Eggs, 1 cup oats
Meal 2: 5oz chicken + 6oz Sweet Potato
Meal 4: 5oz Beef + 3/4 cup rice + A1 Steak Sauce
Meal 5.5 : 50g of Whey
Meal 6: 5oz Chicken + 6oz Sweet Potato
Meal 8: 5oz Beef + 3/4 cup rice + A1 steak sauce
Meal 9: 4oz chicken + 25g of fat from nut butter.
Macros: 280p 195c 90f = 2260
Cardio: Going to stay consistent with 20-25mins post workout 3x a week may add in an extra day during cutting part
Everyone Check out Makwa approach to cyclic bulking and the science behind it. I really see it as the most optimal way, yes I plan on being flat for a week or 2 out of the month but the gains to be made from there are theoretically limitless. I've noticed plenty of plateuas in previous bulks but there is a point at which my body just doesn't wanna look any better no matter how much food I feed it.
Going to keep the marathon not a sprint mentality with this one and enjoy the progress I make steadily. I'll report and keep you guys up to date on how it goes.
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Eq is quality and tapers the physique. Thins out the skin also. Highly desirable look.
You just have to be patient.
I run it every summer with tren mast and growth. God mode
DobermannThat is a nice set of words for EQ!my guess is the muscle you put on is more quality like primo rather than deca ?
So let me ask you a question, How do you bring up lagging body parts? Are you saying taking EQ or Deca/NPP will do that for you? So if my traps are lacking just inject one of those drugs and voila its up to par?
How about training them twice a week? Do you think maybe that will get them growing quicker?
Haha if only it worked like that. No that's not what I believe, I believe going at them strategically - training them 2x a week minimum and adding them to ends of work outs as touch ups 3-5 sets will keep blood flow to them and allow them the proper stimulation for growth. Please don't take me for an idiot who thinks a drug will do magic for anybody. Unfourtuanly there are individuals that follow that logic but please do not associate me with one of them. Thank you - Bg
"Please don't take me for an idiot who thinks a drug will do magic for anybody."
Not sure how closely you follow the forums here, but about 70% of those who ask questions here tend to prescribe to that train of thought, so it is almost instinctive to assume that these days lol. You don't not seem to fit the bill though. Good luck and keep up the solid work.
Ahha yeahh unfortunately that is the case. Maybe even higher then 70% so I understand the assumptions. Thanks to everyone who pitched in. Much appreciated- Bg
I honestly don’t even like to compare them because they are completely different. Each compound will give different types of gains, different types of side effects and are both run different lengths and different amounts/dosages. Really have nothing to do with each other.
What I'm asking to compare is strength, size, and quality of cycle:
20 Weeks EQ = 800-1000mg
12 Weeks Deca = 350-500mg
I see a quick gain in strength and size in Deca, will I see a relative gain in strength and size comparing 12 weeks of Deca to 20 weeks of EQ?
*** Yes I understand it comes down to diet, training and discipline*** and "this drug works this way, that drug works that way" what I'm asking is are those 2 compareable with the factor of (time on cycle) in mind.
Personally I'd like to make slower and steady gains over a 20 week period versus a quick gain over a 10-12 week period.
I feel like slapping on 8-20lbs of meat in 10-12 weeks takes a hit on the body versus spacing that 8-20lb gain over the course of 20 weeks - giving the body more time to acclimate and solidify that weight feels like a more healthy approach.
im not asking the golden question of:
"how many gains will I make?"
What I am asking is "hey what's the healthiest / most enjoyable approach? Deca 10-12 weeks quick gain or EQ 20 weeks slow steady gain?
Maybe this is just a personal preference question that I've just taken to far by asking it in the first place... any input is cool. Thanks - bg
12 wks of Deca is cutting it too short and not comparable to a 20 wk EQ run. Look at the ester. 20wks of Deca comparable to 20 wks of EQ in terms of overall quality mass gained. In my experience the keepable gains are the same but EQ will leave me looking a litter harder.
What are you opinions/experiences with bold cyp?I recently obtained some at a very good price so I went for it.Is it as good as EQ?Does it work faster?
Here's what diet is looking like going forward - 9.5 meals yeah it's a lot but the smaller more frequent meals Is what I like.
Meal 1:
5 Whole Eggs, 1 cup oats
Meal 2: 5oz chicken + 6oz Sweet Potato
Meal 3: 6oz sweet potato
Meal 4: 5oz Beef + 3/4 cup rice + A1 Steak Sauce
Meal 5: 6oz Sweet potato
Meal 5.5 : 50g of Whey
Meal 6: 5oz Chicken + 6oz Sweet Potato
Meal 7: 3/4 cup rice
Meal 8: 5oz Beef + 3/4 cup rice + A1 steak sauce
Meal 9: 4oz chicken + 3/4 cup rice + 25g of fat from nut butter.
And honestly if I feel like it I'll throw in some ice cream every now and then to enjoy the bulk..but let me tell you guys and I'm sure plenty of you already know...that eating that processed shit regularly f***** kills you it slows me down so much.
I'm in the school of belief that I grow better off 3000kcal from clean food versus 3500+ from junk - all that processing and throwing your body curve balls just makes the body go "wtf?" that costs ENERGY. Then again I think throwing in something dirty every so often allows your body to really soak it up and it sure does tighten me up if it's a burger + fries, every so often Ice cream will do the trick.
So with the diet posted above we're looking at
280p 350-380c 90g fat = 3400kcal roughly I'll go ahead an increase protein a bit, and probably bump up my carb meals to full cups later on.
No I do not mind putting on a little fat or even a decent amount, I can drop fat fairly easily, but at the same time there i do believe there is a point at which the scale isn't going to want to move and from there it's time to keep doing what you are doing, get in better condition at that weight then from there I'll begin adding those extra carbs a a junk meal or 2.
Let me know what you guys think of the diet I feel it's pretty thorough and a good base to build off of coming off of my show. Really would like to take advantage of the rebound effect for the next 3-4 weeks and then give my body and receptors a rest for 6-8 weeks (trt) - then blast / Bulk from there upping those carb meals + protein.
Good on you for posting up the diet like we asked in the cycle log section. You don’t need more protein. My view is you need less and you need a shit ton more carbs. I’d drop my protein down to about 225g and get my carbs up to 500g to 600g depending on which body part you’re training and rest recovery days. Especially considering the amount you’re training. I’d be hitting about 60g carbs pre workout another 30 to 50g while working out and another 60g post workout. Drink these carbs in shakes to be as efficient as possible and put them to work while training. Fast carbs here like dextrose or even better vitargo (less stomach bloating issues).
As Rusty says below you want to grow you’ve got to jump on with both feet. You will get a bit fatter for sure but maintaining sub 15% will be no problem for your with short reset periods where you drop cals ans carbs for 2 weeks and bring up your insulin sensitivity. Look into berberine to assist with this and off you go. No point running more cycles if you’re not going to really commit or you will just spin your wheels. Get big first then a short cut and you’ll be on your way!
Good luck!
I like this, also keeping the carbs peri-workout will contribute to better partitioning. Just gotta be sure I'm going beast mode to justify the Intra workout shake, but yeah let's jump in both f**** feet first and make it happen! Thanks for the feedback brother.
you need to look into cyclic bulking. Often times adding in more cals is not the right move after a plateau and will just result in fat since you need to reset insulin sensitivity. Bulking does not mean getting fat, it means putting on the most muscle in the most efficient way.
I actually read what you wote on cyclic bulking a while back. Interesting idea, really do not want to create more fat banks - awful idea. I might just have to use this approach. Going to re-read it and come up with a game plan using that - totally slipped my mind thanks for sharing that Makwa.
I am running eq at the moment at 750mg along side test e 500mg started with tbol first 4 weeks but dropped it because orals always kill my appetite and make me feel shitty. I'm on week 14--15 can't say that I have seen great changes to my physique a little more vascular but the main change is my cv endurance I'm doing 40 mins cardio 5 evenings a week at a steady pace and i feel great when normally I start to flag a little I feel like I can just keep going. But in terms of over all physique not a massive difference. I am using this as more of a recomp cycle rather than a bulk though. I know it takes a while to see the benefits but I also know some guys react amazing to the stuff and others just don't. I still have another 6 weeks to see how it goes though.
Keep me posted on those next 6 weeks. Even though you're not looking at the scale, and don't like to go off it, I still feel it's good to check weekly it does indicate change in some way or another whether it's fat, food, water or muscle gain. 45 mins of cardio on the other hand is quite an expenditure, I'd think it'd be hard for anyone to grow on that, recomp yes I can see that. Ah man I'm rambling, sending you a FR keep me posted.
All I have read is people going on about the guys weight he looks great guys give him his props! He looks great in the pics. I gave up going off the sales and started going off of how I look in the mirror. At the end of the day we are all here to look better and improve. All the scales do is play with your head and I have realised all it has made me do in the past is spill over with diet because the numbers are not going up on the scales. So I start forcing more food down this then makes me feel like shit and look like shit. The scales might go up but it's mainly fat. This guy is lean with a good amount of muscle! I have been 250 + but by would rather gain 3-4 lbs of good solid muscle than 20lbs of fat and bloat.
It's not all about the scales guys go on how you look and feel!
I haven't posted in a while so thought I'd have a little rant ;)
basskiller89I've never needed anything other than test brother
Deca may appeal more to me than EQ due to the fact that EQ will also spike E whereas deca shouldn't really. Assuming your E is in control your prolactin progesterone should be under control and the need for an ancillary like caber may not be necessary. However, if you're already taking an AI the excess conversion of E from EQ shouldn't really matter as you can just adjust your AI. Adding a 19 to a test base may have more of a metabolic effect than adding 2 17's together. I've seen good quality blends of test / eq which may appeal to you as the amount of oil is significantly less than a test deca cycle. I've also seen test / deca blends. It really comes down diet either way. I can't really say which will work best for you, but I can say that the amount of food I have to eat on test alone can get tedious at times. I'm not sure I'd want to stack deca on top of that. I'm not sure I'd even want to stack eq on top of that lol I stick with test e for my cycles. Like I said, I've never needed another compound to get to my size. Again, I can't say what's going to work for you, but safe experimentation is truthfully the only way you'll find out what works and doesn't. I'm here if you need any help
I'm with u on that I've ran so many different compound combinations and at the end of the day I have turned back to the tried send true test ... I like to run sust st the beginning sling test cyp and when the cyp kicks in drop the sust .. I like around 6 to 800 a week and I feel great my matabilisim says so strong I eat the shit out if everything and still look ripped .. I can imigane if I ate clean .. I use addex for my ai and foes the trick every time so if all else frlls test test test ..lol
basskiller89eating clean on a blast is always fun, 10 servings of oats down only 20 to go lol
Post up diet mate! You look look lean in your last photo. Solid condition.
If you added dense to that you'd be a beast!
5 cycles in and you are really light. You need to be more concerned about eating than what you run. Really doesn't matter what you run but it does matter what/how much you eat that will define your gains and progress.
RustyhookerDid you chat with makwa on your diet prior to getting started? Its not the chems bro. You could add 20 rock on just test alone if you ate properly.
Until then imo a comparison is useless.
Exactly bro
Updated my diet approach according to Makwa's advice on cyclic bulking. I seem to hit walls when bulking and wind up with more of a re comp then a bulk. I make progress, I eat all my meals, but I do find there is a point at which my body is like "dude, you've already been giving us plenty of food.. what do you expect us to do with this" "we'll store it as fat". Scale goes up, last bulk I was at 176 5'6.5 pretty big weight for me but not comfortable for sure. Going to use the Cyclic approach and honestly would be happy with a clean 5-10 pounds over a 20 week period. I look to you guys for answers so thanks for always being first to jump on my questions. I really appreciate it. -BG
RustyhookerBullshit. Im 5-4 if i wear my tall shoes. Youve hit no legitimate plateaus. Your mental approach is your enemy currently.
No excuses! Go kick ass!!
I felt like his gear was on the high side to still weigh so little.Looks very good though!
RustyhookerManshit/herpjunkie/op
Yes, dude looks badass in his pix. If he wants bulk at his height hes gotta jump in with both feet. Hes way taller than me and i know as a short lil dude that hes not ever truely hit any plateaus.
Yes, hes in weight class which ultimately is up to him. But mass is mass. If hes gonna play in the sandbox, he gotta get a lil dirty.
I think hes got ton of potential but mentally screwing his full reality.
I did a whole post about that and edited it, afraid I was coming off as an ass, but 5 cycles is alot not to be heavier, even if he only averaged 7 or 8 lbs a cycle that's still 40lbs. But I noticed some of his cycles looked like cut cycles, so he may not be after bulk, idk....
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