+ 7 A troubling trend here at eroids
I've been noticing a troubling trend lately that a sr member opened my eyes to. Im not very good with the metric system so I see alot of posts with the weight in kg and I really don't know how much the individual weighs. What I've been seeing though weather its in kg or lb looks like this.
Hi im 5'10 85 kgs and 9%bf 38yrs old ive ran 3 cycles this will be my 4th. My cycle will be
Test e 750mgs
Decca 500mgs
Tren a 500mgs
They will say there going to run for 12-20wks.
This is just an example not an actual post I've seen.
I usually assume that he is really around 12% bf unless there is a pic. Also that 85kgs means he has a great build on him since this is his 4th cycle.
Now I would usually start with telling them they shouldn't run 2 nor 19 in the same cycle they probably shouldn't even be running tren. So on and so forth. The sr member opened my eyes to the fact that all these posts I've been seeing lately say they have ran multiple cycles already. The member still hasn't even topped 200lbs yet. This is what troubles me if he has ran 3 cycles already and hasn't topped 200lbs we need to shut him down and tell him he needs to stop running gear and get over 200lbs natty before he starts throwing compounds in the mix. I don't believe that reaching 200lbs is a difficult task natty. We don't give cycle advice to under 25. I and others I have spoken to also believe that we need to start pushing the fact that someone that wants to run gear should be around 200lbs before adding in compounds. I know im going to hear about the hard gainers and how they can't get to 200lbs natty. Thats bs and I don't want to hear it. There are plunty of diet and training forums that if they put in the work will get them up to 200lbs.
So I won't give cycle advice or tell someone that they can start running gear any longer to any member who isn't atleast 195lbs natty. I hope that after reading this all the guys that always give out great cycle advice will realize the same thing I have that a very high percentage of the members asking about there cycles and saying that they have ran multiple cycles already haven't put in the work that they could and should have to start or keep running gear.
Thanks for your time
Bigmurph
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From our mod tonytulo:
Well put. My position exactly. Sorry bro.
I'm certain you can find a steroid forum that shares your perspective. Just not here.
dropdzzI understand that stance and especially the ban on insulin and DNP talk because death can be swift.Though I can only go by what they say themselves which is they have competed for so many years and guys under a certian weight have no reason to use gear.
Bro I agree with everything you have said.
I personally (just me) will absolutely no longer support or give a guy cycle advice who weighs less than 200 lbs. Period.
You certainly qualify for advice but not from me
I personally (just me) do not think hormone drug products should be used to manage a sub 200 lb. physique.
The good news is that neither I or others that agree with me are running this website.
Viking would take to task lighter weight guys trying to use gear to build a foundation and during his tenure we didn't see much acceptance for gear use in that application. Since his departure this has become much more common. But, once again, that is just my personal opinion.
Natural selection. If guys want to run a bunch of shit to be average fuck em. Not my problem. My opinion is irrelevant. To watch guys go through the risks for a reward that is obtainable naturally with no risk at all is asinine. But if they think they need it fine. I wont be diving in the discussion. I will just keep on scrolling.
My favorite is when guys say they don't want to be big so that's their reasoning for being where they're at. Then they go and run a cycle that consists of 3 compounds or more or dosages that scream I'm trying to put on size but do it with the needle or the guy who runs bodybuilder like cycles but isn't a bodybuilder but when called out uses "I'm not a bodybuilder" to justify the physique.
Many people just don't have a clue how to train correctly. Too many doing the same shit every week. Loading up weight and lifting with their ego.
or
They don't know how to manipulate their physique with nutrition.
So they turn to drugs. Pure fucking laziness if you ask me. But to each their own. Its not me short changing myself so ive started not to care.
I always ask for a pic, for a reason.
bigmurphThis is it they try and justify it by saying that they don't want size but run bulking cycles every time.
Or as they call them the lean bulk. Lol
Quote from tony
My favorite is when guys say they don't want to be big so that's their reasoning for being where they're at. Then they go and run a cycle that consists of 3 compounds or more or dosages that scream I'm trying to put on size but do it with the needle or the guy who runs bodybuilder like cycles but isn't a bodybuilder but when called out uses "I'm not a bodybuilder" to justify the physique.
Oh bro, don't let that happen. Everything you say and do here means you care. Being a mod means you REALLY care.
How about adrenaline? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8NfmNZCTT8
RustyhookerStats mean a lot.
Only if there true........
It tells a lot when we find out they're not true.
I agree
StevebYeah but if you're short as hell like 5'4" reaching 200lbs can be almost impossible naturally. You're either gonna look like Lee Priest or a fat ass.
bigmurphI agree there are one offs and weight regulated athletes.
Other than that its not crazy I mean if you get 195 thats good but im talking about starting running at 170 running 3 cycles then after all that still weighing 180. Thats the craziness im seeing. Others were pointing out the fact that they see this and these guys start with 500mgs of test then its 750test and decca at 500mgs then its test gram decca at 600 and there adding multiple orals and it just gets crazy.
The guys putting in the work this post of course isn't for them but if you're running cycle after cycle and not putting on size something is really wrong. Especially since most of the posts that lead to this the members were 5'10 on average so no reason that they can't hit 200lbs
dropdzzI would agree that those smaller classes are for guys 5'6" or smaller much taller than that most come in too flat to ever win
RustyhookerReally? So Lee priest at 5-4 was too small? Every measurement he has was as big as the tall guys.
Puff puff pass that dutch
Lee priest was and still is a freak of nature. Genetics are unreal and his attitude and being real about shit..
I have always liked him.
dropdzzYou may want to read it again you seem to have a problem with comprehending the things I type,what I actually said was guys that are taller look flat when they compete at the smaller weight classes.Lee always competed as a heavyweight.I have no problems with shorter guys in fact they look much better at the lighter weight classes.Lee priest was thick and hard always however never could beat Dorian or Ronnie or Jay but he always looked good.
RustyhookerOk.
dropdzzTruth is lee would have had a lot more wins if he had come at a different time.Unfortunatly he came at the end of Dorians era and the beginning of colemans.He pretty much always looked incredible but Coleman was a freak !!!!
StevebYeah he was when he went open weight. Also he looked great but judges do not favor anyone short. If height did not matter Franco Coulmbo would have beaten Arnold.
RustyhookerAgree. I couldn't imagine carrying mass like that. Franco, labrada, priest....just didn't get the wins like the tall dudes. Another reason I like light heavies class down.
dropdzzNot trying to offend anyone but this post is silly!There are classes of pro body builders that have to come in at 170 and 185 and 205 and up.Almost all of the guys are on gear of some sort.Granted they may cut from 220 or 215 down to 170 but most have done more than one cycle and many are on a host of drugs.I understand you mean well but seem to be out of touch a bit.
have to agree dropdzz, the original thread starter only sees one way to skin a cat. Im 180lbs right now. Ive been 215lbs. But the best shape and strength I had in my life was 4 years ago. I was 165lbs and everyone thought I was 185 lbs the maturity of muscle allied to sensible low gear slow and steady type mentality had carved me a Zane like structure but with real power. Im talking 355lbs bench press for 2 reps at 165 and standing military presses of 230 lbs x 4 reps. It was my particular goal to be muscular and and strong but not over bulky.........not everyone uses gear to get as big as possible
Bro, this post is not a criticism of men who wish to maintain a sub 200 lb. physique.
I and others are simply no longer willing to encourage advise or support gear use to build and maintain a sub 200 lb. frame for a male of average height.
I have seen many impressive sub 200 lb. physiques.
The "necessity" of the use of hormone drug products to achieve these kinds of goals is at issue not the quality or aesthetics of a man's build.
To play devils advocate, one could argue your goals were achievable without gear. I've trained natural guys to that level several times. I do agree though, as mentioned earlier, it's not black and white with these numbers, but you have to at least acknowledge the basic point.
I see your point. Mine is the case of a man who weighs the same as he did at college 20 years ago. I was lean then.
But the muscularity and strength and muscle maturity and density is a sight to behold in comparison to my former self......and like I say I still weigh the same but look very very jacked in compared to before . I have no water retention so its a dry look too.
I did not touch any gear any fat burner until nearly 5 years ago. I was totally natural and had achieved a lot in all the aspects of training I mentioned.Id been as high as 190 naturally in that time frame but never lower than 160.
Since than I have confined myself to a couple of cycles a year of very anabolic and basic stuff with things like clen and t3 thrown in at the end and always a PCT . I have an academic knowledge of compounds an early on experimented with winstrol, Test E, primo, anavar, Dianabol in other word mild androgenics but found being naturally very aggressive, and prone to MPB they weren't for me on that basis. So ive stuck with Deca for mass with a little test prop, or an EQ only cycle with a little test prop and perhaps anavar thrown in. I also used HGH extensively in 2012 and im using it again now.
After the first year of experimentation where on a basic dianabol cycle I blew up to 210 lbs before I did a cut. Ive stuck with a couple of mild 12-16 week cycles a year and they've served my purpose which is slow and very lean gains and rebody comp while always staying 165-180 Im very good at only buying stuff from the best labs ive never been lumbered with bunk gear since that first year.
Thanks again for the heads up
I think the frustration that kicks in for the OP is the pure number of guys that build nothing naturally and jump on gear way to early, often due to impatience or even laziness. As a result the generalisations kick in and some around the periphery in the grey areas wrongly get included. Have a look around in the cycles sections, 150lb guys running gear etc. Welcome to eroids ;)
Id agree with you catalyst those people annoy me just as much. But if you are going to generalise dont get it so wrong.
bigmurphI saw that post this morning it made me think that it was a perfect example of what I've been seeing lately.
You need to educate yourself that there are a fair few experienced lifters in their 30s who don't share the same goals as you . We may be less than 5% but we know what we are talking about even if we approach a subject from a different angle to your outlook. Also my friend your hot headed "one size fits all" approach is bringing a sledgehammer to a job that requires a knifepick
Yes a person can build a 200lb physique of a quite muscular nature without too much difficulty and without gear
But that's missing the point
There are also a fair amount of experienced physique athletes who prefer to stay in the 165-180 range at a height of 5ft 10- or in my case 5ft 11 ,and refine and improve their physique within that parameter whilst eliminating all bloat. These people such as myself look at Stallones physique in Rocky 4, and see how he improved it from a very impressive one in rocky 3 to 4 and than to Rambo 3. In all this time his weight hovered between 160-165 and than 180. They look at Zane and Lee Labrada.
The gear and fat burners definetly help in this refinement. They also even on very low dose and weak compound cycles like my own help maintain and improve the strength we have built up naturally. This strength ( in my case at 5'11 165-175 lbs and after 20 years of training I can bench 355 for reps) contributes to a muscle maturity and density that simply isn't there with your average bloated 250lber on gear who thinks only big guys should be justified in taking gear.
If you don't like my post I couldn't care less but try and understand your definition of who should and shouldn't be on gear is deeply flawed. You cant lump newbie youngsters who are 5'10 weigh 170lbs and are on gear with no natural training with a 37 year old who is the same dimension but lifts way more, looks far better and has trained 20 years. .....its about choice. I choose not to be 200lbs plus.
Yes I have been bigger at times like I said I did go up to 215 and yes I do get a lot of the big guys in the gym saying u looked better before you should put on mass again, but by the same token the younger 160 lb guys are in awe of my physique at my age.
We can agree to disagree but don't come on here like the forums policeman just cos you are 200lbs plus
You need to educate yourself that there is a big difference between a teen or early 20 something 5ft 10 150lb newbie who has never trained natural and wants to come on here talking about gear, and more experienced athletes like myself who are 5ft 10/11 and sub 200lbs who have for the vast majority of their time trained natural than in their early 30s start educated wise cycles.
Us 5% who aren't dumb ass
Bro, once again, this post is not an attack on men weighing less than 200 lbs. It is not a "homage" to men weighing more than 200 lbs.
I'm sure you would agree that no steroid is a mechanism to improve one's health. The use of any steroid has health risks associated with it, and, depending on the individual, the risks can be mild or severe.
What is at issue here is the social responsibility of the members of this community. I am not going to encourage men who weigh less than 200 lbs. to use hormone drug products to manage their physiques.
Why? Because it's not a necessity.
Everyone, however, will do what they think is best for themselves, regardless of what any of us on this board believe.
I also think there is enough information on this website for a 160 lb. guy that feels passionately that he cannot grow without chemical assistance to design a steroid cycle and run that cycle safely with no assistance from members of this community.
Finally, I'm passionate about people achieving their physique goals. That's why I am here. To help others succeed. Simply because I no longer wish to encourage guys that can reach their goals without drugs to use drugs, doesn't mean in any way that I don't want these guys to succeed. I most certainly do.
Gearhead bro....understand the fundamental point Im making
For the experienced knowledgable mature 165-180lb guys using gear ...its not to get bigger.....pls understand that.....they use gear to REFINE their physique.......I have no doubt without any kind of gear I could get up to 220 lbs if I wanted that. Hell I run 28 miles a week as well as lift weights and do occasional cycles......its about refining the physique for us guys .....not getting bigger
But we are as u say all on the same team we have to stop the unknowledgable , impatient, dumbass kids who don't even have any natural training behind them from using this stuff and spreading misinformation.....and hurting their bodies and lives in the medium and long run. I think you, me and Bugmurph agree on this. Thumbs up to all of u. Thanks
I do understand you bro.
And, I think you have the knowledge and experience to plan and execute steroid cycles in a way that you feel benefits you without a problem.
I, however, can't read minds, don't know the people I'm dealing with (internet strangers) so, I can't waiver or make exceptions in the grey areas, because, this is the internet and people can justify and cast their steroid use in the most attractive light possible.
So, in the interests of everybody, I'm going to be cut and dry about it. I'm not going to provide any more advice to the sub 200 lb. guy. Period.
For yourself, you don't need my input anyways!!!
bigmurphThats why im of course excluding weight regulated athletes. But even weight regulated athletes step up over time because they can no longer cut down to make the smaller weight class then you know that there bulking all year to get ready for the higher weight class.
I love all the defending of weight restricted athletes when there are less than 5% on this site. Further more weight restrictions only come around once or twice a year. Soo it's a moot point.
bigmurphYeah I didn't think that we had that many here. I completely understand that if you need to make weight then yes that holds you back. I used to box and would be running with garbage bags on to get everything off possible. So I can definitely understand that but everyone seems to be using it as there main defense against this idea that if you're bulking over and over but your weight never increases especially when using multiple compounds. Its not weight restriction its just that member inflating there muscle with water and then when they deflate back to where they started they run another cycle. Never gaining any real mass.
Bingo.
Steveb?
Don't start.
Lol
This has been going on for so long already , its something i dont let bother me anymore .i believe ,irishmask , catalyst and a few others told me , dont drive myself nuts with this .and i took advise and i dont ..
Aas are the new thing for the new generation ,yes its true they are wasting time and money but its theres to waste ..this is why you see test @1gram 500deca 500 tren , prov and no da or pct in place ...
I look at a brothers pics , i can tell if they got that girth , mass , symetricial ...and i know when i see mosquito bites ..so yes i believe a person should get the propper base before aas .but i also feel 200lb or no advice is not a good reason not to give advice .
I say this not being argumentatively, but as debatable ,
There are differnt weight classes in power lifting ,bbing , lets say mma.,boxing just about any competive sport ..so it depends example a 5' 4" man acquires 180 190 lb i say hes doing pretty good , my self im 5'8" and hold around 200. Im currently on and 222 and im hating it. ...i dont feel in my element ,im more comfortable at 190 - 200
Also i got mine from 20 + years 100% natty but i was ,well lets just say i didnt have access to aas ...
You know i can go on all day ,as to why ,there doing it today ,and it boils down to instant gradification , jellously , peer pressure and of course the biggest culprit of all the internet ...
So i see your point 100% but i dont think its actually fair to say if you didnt hit 200natty ,no advice
Now if a brother is 5'8" and 160 _175 i stand with you
Also a 6'2 or 6'3 man should be like 215 - 220 befor advice kwim ???
Also your correct in the fact that if a brother is going strictly for size and has 3 cycles and hes 5'8" and 170,that he is completly wasting his time and has ...
Tony has a good point also if someones cycles scream bulk and your 5'8" 170. And you ran 3.
But on a closing note ,if these people have all these cycles under there belt ,and now were not giving advice whats it matter ,they never listened to us anyway or they wouldnt be 170...lol kwim
And to be remembered wgat nitti always said this isnt a body builders site , its a review site and alot of didfernt people have differnt goals. ...,
+1 good post and debate
bigmurphWhen I first wrote this i hadn't thought about all the weight restricted athletes so this definitely isn't directed towards them. The main thing I've seen alot is 185 average weight and they say there heading into there 3 or 4th cycle. I would have normally just started trying to help them but like you said if they have already ran that many cycles there not going to start listening now.
Thanks for the + brother
keyword AVERAGE! I typically stay around 185 and 200 but 5'10"... But stronger than the guys that weigh 230 and 240! I don't even max out just reps.. For instance flat bench I did 315 for 15 reps today. I'm around 195 maybe less weight... I go for more of aesthetic look! I don't pull chicks when I weigh 220 with the moon face!
bigmurphHow many cycles have you ran i remember seeing a pic of you. Your ripped with cuts and lean. Like you said though you're at 195lbs thats fine when someone is 185 and there going into there 3rd cycle as most of them say there "lean bulk". Thats crazy alot of the guys im speaking of probably couldn't lift 315 once. This is a bad habit that I've been seeing lately and its just guys running cycle after cycle and not getting anywhere.
Cycles I'm not sure buddy! I get what your saying now...
bigmurphThe person that neg me on this post needs to let me know why you neg me on a great conversation.
Don't hide in the shadows neg someone because you're scared to bring your opinion to the table
Did some girly man pussy neg you bro? Let's hope it was just a fat finger on a phone or something. Not something intentional. That happens. I just put it back.
bigmurphGood looking out
I can't stand that shit
For future reference big Murph the conversion rate for kg to lbs is 2.2046 pounds in one kg. I was the opposite as you when I moved to America it took me a long time to learn it lol mostly I round up to 2.205
bigmurphWho neg you i also got neg someone is upset about weighing 165lbs after 3 cycles. Lol