+ 7 A troubling trend here at eroids
I've been noticing a troubling trend lately that a sr member opened my eyes to. Im not very good with the metric system so I see alot of posts with the weight in kg and I really don't know how much the individual weighs. What I've been seeing though weather its in kg or lb looks like this.
Hi im 5'10 85 kgs and 9%bf 38yrs old ive ran 3 cycles this will be my 4th. My cycle will be
Test e 750mgs
Decca 500mgs
Tren a 500mgs
They will say there going to run for 12-20wks.
This is just an example not an actual post I've seen.
I usually assume that he is really around 12% bf unless there is a pic. Also that 85kgs means he has a great build on him since this is his 4th cycle.
Now I would usually start with telling them they shouldn't run 2 nor 19 in the same cycle they probably shouldn't even be running tren. So on and so forth. The sr member opened my eyes to the fact that all these posts I've been seeing lately say they have ran multiple cycles already. The member still hasn't even topped 200lbs yet. This is what troubles me if he has ran 3 cycles already and hasn't topped 200lbs we need to shut him down and tell him he needs to stop running gear and get over 200lbs natty before he starts throwing compounds in the mix. I don't believe that reaching 200lbs is a difficult task natty. We don't give cycle advice to under 25. I and others I have spoken to also believe that we need to start pushing the fact that someone that wants to run gear should be around 200lbs before adding in compounds. I know im going to hear about the hard gainers and how they can't get to 200lbs natty. Thats bs and I don't want to hear it. There are plunty of diet and training forums that if they put in the work will get them up to 200lbs.
So I won't give cycle advice or tell someone that they can start running gear any longer to any member who isn't atleast 195lbs natty. I hope that after reading this all the guys that always give out great cycle advice will realize the same thing I have that a very high percentage of the members asking about there cycles and saying that they have ran multiple cycles already haven't put in the work that they could and should have to start or keep running gear.
Thanks for your time
Bigmurph
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seen a lot of this also, far too much to take unless you have already be training & growing for a long time, more is not better in this case
Count me as one more for, "It's not that simple."
I appreciate Catalyst stepping up much earlier in thread with, "I think you have to take this on a case-by-case basis."
The trend that troubles me is in the amount of activity that plays juror in the matter of whether OP (of a cycle thread, not this thread) deserves to cycle. All of our cycles are unnecessary. It is not necessary to weigh 200lbs, weigh 240lbs, lift 700lbs, ...whatever the case may be. They are all wants - choices. Someone for whom anabolics are necessary will be managed by a doctor and will have no need of Internet forums. For the others, respect that the choice belongs to the guy driving the body.
That said, the choice of whether to give advice belongs to the one about to give it. I agree that eroids sees a good volume of cycle proposals where it is appropriate to advise against.
Probably I'm one of them. I'm 5'10". I went from 150 to 185 natural. Near the end of my second cycle, I'm 205 and not too fat or wet. After PCT, I'll clean up a bit - maybe even to 195. After that I'll be sure to bulk natural for 5 weeks before asking for any more advice. 2-3 years from now, I will weigh in to step on stage for the first time. Many of you probably know the reason I expect to do better if that comes out less than 198 1/4
...and while I'm standing on that scale, I still won't qualify for advice.
bigmurphYou do qualify for advice because you're not running cycle after cycle and making no gains. Thats what were talking about 200lbs + was a number we thought was achievable but a little under means nothing unless you are running 3 bulk cycles in a row and every time you start one you weigh the same you did the last time you ran one.
Those are the guys that this is pointed at. You sound like you have everything together and make your gains and reach your goals. So this isn't directed at you brother its all the posts you even spoke of that the member is 150-170 has trained 2 yrs strong and is going to run 15wks with test tren andan oral. Then around 6 months later he posts again that he is doing the same thing but surprisingly his weight is where he started his first cycle.
These are the types we are speaking of not the dedicated backbreaking killers that hit the weights hard eat right and cycle every now and then like you.
Thanks.
I understood that you were really talking about the more extreme cases. Yep, there are a whole lot of those. Lack of progress is indeed cause for concern, and it is strange to see no-progress 3rd+ cycle proposals that aren't also asking what they may be doing wrong.
I held off for a few days until I couldn't resist expressing my libertarian position - with a pinch of sarcasm. Where there is a diversity of reasoned views on eroids, I think it's important that the "dissenters" speak up. Otherwise, innovation will happen somewhere else.
Though I was a bit sarcastic, I have known all along I could have waited longer. I'm impatient. Thus the plan to compete at light-heavyweight... but not to stop there.
dropdzzBeautiful writing sir!I think some people forget that this is a site about purchasing and running gear.Illegaly I might add.So for a body builder who used gear himself,to tell others not to comes off a bit hypocritical.There are many places to get advice on training and usually from Olympic trainners or doctors.Most come here for advice on gear.
You are spot on! Eroids is a steroid source review site. That's what it is about. To help people make the best purchasing decisions when buying gear.
The forums, however, are something else entirely. In fact, it is against the rules even to talk about steroid sources in the forums.
I take my social responsibility on this website very seriously. Telling a 5' 10" 165 lb. guy that he would get better results putting some more weight on before jumping on steroids is not hypocrisy. It's the truth.
I spend a lot of time here trying to help people. I'm not going to support or indulge guys that have no muscle base to try to use hormones to create one. It can't be done.
I'm also not going to help a man risk his health running cycle after cycle under 200 lbs. and getting nowhere as so many do. I do fully understand that it is certainly a man's right to do as he wishes.
But, I have a conscience bro. And, I'm not going to be flippant about it when guys are compromising their health and not even making gains. If you are going to run gear, at least make some progress.
dropdzzI actually agree with some of what you say but some of is short sighted.It is a forum on eroids,first and foremost.The info people come here for is roid info.One can much better natty advice on cheat sheet or any other muscle and fitness clone site.I do understand your dilemma.The biggest problem with the tiny guys is most probably they are not the age they report.
I'm not sure if it's short sighted. I'm a competitive bodybuilder and I've been "serious" about 13 years. Since I started I have put on over 100 lbs. of muscle in those 13 years. I'm 39 now.
Most of us that hold any kind of real mass, in fact, I would say that ALL who do, built a significant size and strength base before touching gear.
If you want to grow, gear will take you from big to freaky big and from strong to freaky strong.
Gear does a horrible job of taking a 150 lb. man to 170 lbs. and then to 180 lbs. and on and on we go. If it worked that way and guys using it in that way did not repeatedly lose their gains and keep running cycle after cycle in frustration and still not growing and maintaining mass - I would support it. But, it doesn't work that way.
dropdzzActually gear does a great job of taking a 150 to 180.Im not saying it's a great idea but you're lying to yourself when you make a statement like that.In fact it makes you lose credibility.It also does a great job of giving 50 year olds erections again.There is a reason that men everywhere are getting there low t checked.Its not just for one little club of competitive body builders and strength athletes.You guys however do have the most experience in the usage and hence people want to pick you brains.Thats what the forums are suppose to be for.Its supposed to be a place to learn not be chastized by someone who is doing the things they tell you not to do.
Take me for an example,if I hadl listened to the common advice from some of the high karma club on here I would never have gotten on gear because I was very over weight with about a 50% body fat.My doctor however didn't agree with that group and put on TRT and estrogen control.In two and a half years I've gone from 370 lb to 225 lb and now am only 20% body fat.Now granted I completely changed my diet and started doing cardio a few times a week but before getting my test higher I was gaining weight at. 1200 calories.
Now truth is I respect a lot of the knowledge you guys bring to the forums but you are also wrong about a lot of stuff( not you in perticular but the body builders only club)I mean no disrespect either but you made a statement that is Patonly false.
Nice try bro to stand ground in your "defenseless position." It does a crappy job in taking a man from 150 to 180. My credibility remains perfectly in tact.
Eroids and other steroid forums are replete with examples of guys using steroids to go from 150 to 180. The cycle seems to work. They hit 180. They get bigger and stronger. They seem happy with their gear use.
But guess what?
The amount of fluid retention is excessive. There wasn't enough muscle base for steroids to hypertrophy and the lean tissue gains were minimum.
What happens?
As they enter and exit PCT, the intracellular water that gave their muscles that nice full rounded look and jacked up their strength abates and they lose a lot of the weight they gained, sometimes all of it.
Then they cycle again, and the same thing happens again, and again, and again. And get no where.
Steroids build muscle on muscle Short and sweet bro. No significant natural base to begin with. No sustainable gains.
dropdzzPot meet kettle!My position is Certianly not defenseless its steeped in fact and with every post you create a straw man and then defeat it.The reality is just as many guys put on twenty pound or so and keep it.Not everyone wants to be freaky.Some want to look more like the guys on men's fitness not muscular development.I will agree with some of your points but not all!Obviously others don't agree either hence you always on here regulating like William Bonnie!
Bro, let it die. This forum served its purpose. Your interests are not going to get served here to the extent they support a 165-170 lb. guy using gear. The board has spoken. I can't change your opinion nor do I care to. Best of luck to you in all your pursuits.
Exactly!!
Your comparing trt patients guys who use test only and are prescribed under a licensed physician or clinic to a bodybuilder who runs multiple compounds and much high dosages? There is no comparison bro. I didn't read any further because that argument is moot.
This forum was obviously written for the many cases we see here at eroids. Obviously there are exceptions to everything and just throwing a number at it isn't the smartest either.
If guys don't have a base they don't get help period. With the health risks that come with this lifestyle im not going to help some scrawny shit smaller than my wife run stack after stack of gear to obtain natural like gains.
I honestly think because drugs are soo easily obtainable these days is why we are having these issues.
This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
dropdzzI think what I'm saying is that the forums are for everyone to learn and not just the competitive body builders.I can agree that you shouldn't tell someone you don't know and know nothing about what their dosage protocol should be.These forums,however seem to have been hijacked by the competitive body builders,who even take it upon themselves to tell everyone else how they can respond to a question..
Furthermore a lot of the info they give out is simply not based in science.Its become a few regulators that have some knowledge but want new comers to have none.
Also I didn't just throw numbers out there,I took the numbers from the previous post that had asserted a complete falicy that gear was not a good way to take someone from 150 to 180 and then reminded us of the time spent as a competitive body builder.In doing this he completely disregards other athletes that have no desire to gain 100 lbs.Fighters,football player,wrestlers and track athletes all also use gear and have a different approach since they have to stay at certain weights.Unfortunately you guys have tried to turn the forum into a forum for competitive body builders ,only and it not that.Its a forum on a steroid purchasing website,where the people who purchase them would like information.
The number of guys here that compete is extremely small. There are in fact a lot of bodybuilders on this site tho. If you go to the gym 4 to 6 days a week. Group your workouts around certain body parts and eat right. You are a bodybuilder. The difference between a competitive bodybuilder and a bodybuilder is the stage , posing, tanning , diet etc etc that's it.
This forum hasn't been hijacked. Members who have put in a serious amount of work to achieve their physiques and I'm talking years, endless amount of hours in the gym and endless amounts of money on food. Being dedicated to their goal and putting the time in are getting sick of the shit.
They are getting sick of guys thinking its all drugs. Guys jumping on gear without a base at all. Guys who cant compare to other guys who are 100% natural yet they've put years in the gym , years eating right , training correctly , learning and absorbing things to help them achieve their goals. An then they finally jump on gear and they already looked like they were on gear.
Now. No one is talking about TRT guys, weight restricted athletes such as boxers and such, no one is talking about those guys. Because there are less of them on here than competitive bodybuilders. Which there isn't many of them here less than 5 to 10%.
What these guys are talking about are the guys wanting to run bodybuilder like cycles , read up on bodybuilder tactics , train like bodybuilders. These are the guys but when they are called out they cry they don't want to be big? No. If it acts like a duck and quacks like a duck its a duck. They just haven't put the work in. An many members are done helping people abuse these drugs and harm themselves.
"Unfortunately you guys have tried to turn the forum into a forum for competitive body builders ,only and it not that. Its a forum on a steroid purchasing website,where the people who purchase them would like information."
Wrong again. This site has always been pro health over all. Guys never just get cosigned because they don't know anything and have gear on the way. No this site helps people get to their goals, an if your goals don't require bodybuilder/gymrat dosages people are now speaking up. Not because they want to pick on guys but because they truly are trying to help. But people give gear way too much credit. All the gear in the world isn't going to make up for a lacking diet. It wont make up for sub par training. It wont make up for little time spent in this lifestyle.
This is not a steroid purchasing site. It is a steroid review site , with a forum about this lifestyle and everything pertaining to it.
I like many others here like to help people obtain their goals and I like nothing more than seeing them reach their goals. So if I see them going about it the wrong way whether it be abusing drugs, undereating , not training correctly , not putting 100% effort into their diet and training and haven't put the time in the gym I say something. Many guys here who make huge contributions in the forums have started to say something. They aren't saying it to pick on people or put others down either (even tho at times it does seem that way) they just don't want to see someone doing damage to themselves running drug stacks that amateur bbs take when they have under 4 to 5 years in the gym and look like they haven't trained anymore than 2 days a week. They fail to realize the damage they continue to do an how many people have died abusing these compounds. People you never hear about.
Guys are telling people what they need to hear not what they want to hear.
I also don't let shit get out of hand either. That is my job here. I wont let anyone just shit on someone out of the blue. Now , if the op comes back all shity after guys are trying to help him or her , than its their own fault when guys start ripping on them.
Many guys and girls here just want to see people get the best out of everything and do well and obtain their goals. If the diet is off, they say something. If the training is off, they say something. If they see excessive drug use and the goals don't warrant it or the physique doesn't warrant it , again they say something.
Its constructive criticism. When you post a cycle , a forum post or a pic on here you open the door to all opinions. People are going to say what needs to be heard, not necessarily what the op wants to hear.
( This has to be one of the longest replies I've typed in a long time)
Do not take this as me putting you down or arguing because that I am not. I'm purely trying to explain things bro. At the end of the day I'm here for all members as a mod so I walk a very thin line , but I also love this lifestyle and have sunk my heart into it. So I try to do both , be a mod and help when I can in the forums.
dropdzzSince you are the moderator please explaine why I was docked karma.
You can disregard this and take it the wrong way if you like, but I'll explain to you why I think someone has decided to do that. Read back through your responses, you're very critical of people here and the forum in general. "high karma guys do this", "bodybuilders do that", it's all very negative.
dropdzzNo more negative than Lmfao or I almost spit my protien shake up.You see whe you tell someone they make you laugh you are basically saying " you're a joke " negative and provocative at the same time,however when I challenge there train of thought I get docked karma.No thanks.like I said earlier in this forum small group of closed minded high karma regulators.Wish you well you guys can continue patting each other on tha backs and telling each other how smart you are.Ill go on to other boards where kids act like men instead of this one wher men act like children.
I actually am not directing this at you you have actually been helpful in some other post and also makwa is great!Even tonytulo has been ok.Gearhead is an idiot.
StevebThat sounds like a pedophile dating website.
I've had enough of your shit. I went against my better judgement letting you stay and tried not to misplace my patience."Ill go on to other boards where kids act like men instead of this one where men act like children" go for it than , let me show you the fuckin door. Children consistently argue like you do, children don't know when to just walk away and be the bigger man. No one here regulates shit except for me and the other mods. I could care less if you think I'm a saint , ok or a piece of shit , makes no difference. Your negative banter and constant complaining about how this site should be and how it doesn't fit your taste is over.
The veiled homo remark I didn't see coming. That was a first. The guy has problems.
bigmurphThank you this guy deserved the hammer
I negged you last night and just now! I don't think an explanation is needed! This speaks for it all!
dropdzzfunny I dont see where you and I even had a discussion at all so Im not sure what "this" is or what it speaks for.I can only figure "gearhead" is someone you love and respect.
That's it bud. That's fucking disgusting. I'm happily married with two boys. You swing that way? Great bro. I don't. Trust me this is all cyber space and the internet and people hiding behind screens and shit and make believe and so forth. I've met quite a few of the guys on here in real life. You wouldn't want to meet me with that shit bro. Trust me.
bigmurphSomebody needs to hit this guy dropdzz with a troll tag please
dropdzzSomething tellls me you took that the wrong way.If I ment it the way you took it I wouldnt have used the word respect.Lighten up,and post a pic Im dying to see what your thirteen years of body building prowess have produced.
I didn't take nothing the wrong way bud. Pics of bodybuilders get you excited? Fucking creep.
Respect yes! Your ignorance is irrelevant!
Fella you've been at the negative stuff a long time before this post. Seriously, you've written some fairly abrasive stuff in your time here, go back through and read some of them, I'm being honest with you. Whilst none of it has been directed at me, you're always pointing out "what's wrong with eroids". I've just read through a fair few comments of yours of similar sentiment. You've made a lot of negative comments to the extent where you appear to have a big issue about "the vets / the karma system / eroids in general". Honestly, if you dislike the place do much, why bother with it? I know I wouldn't if I felt that way.
Name calling isn't necessary. "Idiot"? I hate to tell you but he's one of the smartest guys on here.
bigmurphCatalyst can you please give this guy a troll tag im not sure if that's how it works but someone needs to.
If viking were still around this guy would have already got the hammer.
dropdzzHe may be smart but you cant tell it from the post on this thread.He did admit to almoast getting twenty years but probably hyperbole kind of like his 100 pounds of muscle.Post a pic!
I actually enjoy reading the stuff you write especially diet clinic,however cant say that I have seen one thing constructive that he has written.I do see him making fun of a lot of poeple who just want advice.I guess thats what this is about.After this I will not be back,so good luck to all of you,but a karma system that lets anyone with more karma dock you karma is not a system at all.
Move on. You seem to be very myopic. If you don't like someone, who cares. That's life. You've really brought this thread down with your hurt feelings and your unwillingness to listen to another's opinion. You want your option heard and that's it. We've heard your point and most don't agree. Again, who cares!?! The people you're dealing with have put in years of helping people here on eroids. There integrity is not in question. No one knows you, besides what you've shown here and In a few other threads. Trying to paint "vets" with your tainted brush isn't going to fly.
I'm sure this is all for nothing, but oh well. Good luck with things and please move on to another topic and especially move on from your false assesment as of people here.
Sorry to lose you bro, but sounds like a plan. You are certainly welcome here, though. I don't know why the fact that the board isn't going to give cycle advice to guys with no muscle base troubles you so much. Now you are calling me an "idiot?" Huh? I didn't neg you before but I will now. -2
dropdzzI don't care.The karma system on here is a joke too many people in charge.I never said you took my karma what I implied is you were just as negative as me and did not get docked.Proving once again small group of back patters.
dropdzzActually that was a very good reply and quite respectful.I take no offense and understand for the most part.Im not on here to argue but would like to pick some of your brains and not be judged by my karma points.I was a high school all American and also played collage football back in the day when you got you gear from the back of bigger faster stronger.I just feel some of the guys on here are quite snarky and disrespectful all the while telling the newbies to respect them.
Hey bro. Wow. Thanks so much. Really.
There is nothing I could add to this, it's exactly how I view things myself. I just can't understand why most of these guys or kids for that matter think they need grams of gear, primo, oral tren, halo, tren, and mast when they have either no base, weigh less then my anorexic sister, or have an addiction to jelly doughnuts. I will be the first to admit I get pretty nasty but its because when you try and be civil you get called names or told you no nothing about their diet, medical history, e.t.c. What really kills.me is the fkn excuses, I'm a hard gainer, I'm a mesamorph, ectomorph, blah blah, and have no idea what it means without Google. But anyways well said Tony took most of the words right out of my mouth.
bigmurphIt could not have been said any better
Quote by tonytulo
Many guys here who make huge contributions in the forums have started to say something. They aren't saying it to pick on people or put others down either (even tho at times it does seem that way) they just don't want to see someone doing damage to themselves running drug stacks that amateur bbs take when they have under 4 to 5 years in the gym and look like they haven't trained anymore than 2 days a week. They fail to realize the damage they continue to do an how many people have died abusing these compounds. People you never hear about.
That is exactly what this is all about it started with a sr member showing me that I was just helping people hurt themselves and im here to help not hurt. I threw this forum together quickly and left some holes that allowed people to come in and defend against the fact that they are doing nothing but hurting themselves. I just don't want to be a part of that anymore. I know others have seen it now also and I have even seen in the forums guys bringing up this issue.
I hope everyone took something from this great conversation that we had over 1000 views and over 100 replies.
Good luck and good gains to everyone
Hey, bro, LMFAO - you made me spit up my protein shake with that one. LOL - Please, please don't worrry at all my friend. Just keep training the way you are training, eating the way you are eating and using gear the way you use it and you should have NO FEAR WHATSOEVER of something horrible happening to you like gaining 100 lbs. of unwanted muscle. Please just don't worry about that!!! LOL
I realize as you say that so many athletes struggle against putting on slabs of nasty muscle and the freaky strength that goes with that. I understand and appreciate how that must be just a battle for most people to prevent that awful side effect. I hear that all the time "I just don't want to get that big." Well, you have to just play it smart to avoid that. I understand how easily that can happen. LMAO
One thing does confuse me though. People point to me in the gym now and again and mutter under their breath - "Oh, I wouldn't want to get that big."
And, yet, I have asked guys 1000 times if I could give them one pill to take when they went to bed and in the morning when they got up they would be massive and powerful with the size of an elite bodybuilder. Rippling muscles, brutal strength, mind boggling vascularity, ultra low body fat - I have yet for any man EVER to tell me no.
So, I just can't figure it out man. I'm at a total loss.
dropdzzI'm glad you got a kik out of my words but you arrogance makes me laugh.You tube the body builders at under armor camp getting embarrassed by nfl practice squad players or ufc athletes at rebock going head to head with strong men twice their size and you may get a new appreaciation for athletes other than body builders.Its funny watching the body builders tearing their hammys trying to run the forty.In my earlier post I said some of the body building crew are a bit short sited and then you go and prove my point. thank you for that.Body building is about aesthetics not athletics but gear is for both.You may look way better than Brock lesnar but I would bet that he would give you a beat down,yet you both do gear.
Actually, what you just wrote is even funnier! Seriously it is! I don't want to argue with you bro. My interests have been served here completely. I don't fight anymore. Last time I was in a fight I almost went to prison for 20 years. Not worth it to me.
dropdzzSure but my loss of karma proves my point you guys have a body building club of regulators.Thats why people come here buy their gear and move on to other boards for discussion.This one is a waste!Just a note when you fight for sport you don't go to prison, but nice try.
I was not fighting for sport bro, that's for certain. I felt it was self defense.
I don't think that's what GH was saying. All too often I hear someone say "I don't want to get too big". People say it all the time on here. It's a very laughable statement. NOBODY is going to "get to big" with muscle by accident. The statement alone is an absolute guarantee that it won't happen. There are very few things in life that are achieved without intention, and even then it's a long and difficult road.
I think you're overestimating the number of competitive bodybuilders here. They're actually a very small percentage of the membership. There's not many of us that actually share that passion / sickness, (both probably). The same is true of fighters, endurance athletes etc. They are very few and far between
Whilst I agree with some of what you're saying I think you're kidding yourself in one big respect. 90%+ of these guys that are being referred to aren't bb'ers, power lifters, fighters, athletes, they're just what's often called by you guys in the States "gym rats". They go to the gym to look good, attract women, look tougher and "swole bro" etc, not for a competitive sport. If you're ok with those guys running gear, that's your position and I respect gat. GH isn't, and I'm not hugely comfortable with it either. I see little value in helping someone to use drugs that have potential long term consequences in a misguided way. Especially when experience shows me it often leads to disappointment.
This isn't a hardcore bodybuilding site, if it was the likes of GH, Tony and myself would be posting up crazy cycles, how to use insulin posts etc. The sort of things that would raise eyebrows.
I know there was a survey done a while back looking at the demographics of the users of this site. Would be interesting to do that survey again to get a feel of how many eroids members are competitive BB's, fighters, weight restricted, strongman, gym rats, etc.
dropdzzI'm not talking about everyone on eroids.Im only referring to the ones who claim to be body builders and want to regulate all discussion.It seems that a lot,not all of the high karma guys,tend to be body builders and only believe in one way of doing things.They only reason I call them body builders is because they always start their rants with"I've been a body builder for so long and so forth".I actually have a lot of respect for body builders but I also know they are not the supreme athletes.I also know that they are not the only ones who use gear.When you make a statement like if you don't weigh so much,something completely arbitrary that they show they are caught up in a body building mentality.