posted Tue, 11/24/2015 - 20:06
13722
TRT: Before and After? How do you feel now? How long does it take to feel the benefits?
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As the title says, how do you guys feel now on TRT as opposed to before you were on it? In what ways has it changed your life?
Just started self-admin @ 250 Test-E a week. On day#8 now. I'm hoping for libido, erectile, sleep, memory, mood and fat loss benefits. Have confirmed low T (~260 ng/dl). 38 years old. Plan to adjust the dose down to a minimum level where I feel benefit (100-200mg/week). Got a bit excited to start. Been almost 10 years with low T. Really want to feel something!!!
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They might love it now but running high dose, 200mg+ for example will give them heart problems later. Long periods of time of excess in testosterone than your normal 100-150mg/w can make fat develope around your heart thus resulting in your problems later.
I've read most of the thread and some of this has been addressed.
You seem to have a problem with patience. You're basically on a low cycle dose right not and NOT a TRT dose. You said that it wouldn't kill you and that you would pair it down later, after it "kicks in". You're missing the point of a TRT completely. It's about reaching a homeostasis, not jacking your numbers to feel better quickly. It took me a full year to really get stabilized on my TRT and I really don't mess with it at all. I feel very good, but it took a while to get there, but that's how it's supposed to be. I'd stick with a 100-150 mg a week dose for 90 plus days, take bloods and see where you're at. If it needs adjusting, go from there. Otherwise you're just blasting and cruising, which is not a trt at all.
As for your "log", just be patient. We like to hear how things are going, but you need to give this more time. Things will turn out much better in the long run if you do. Good luck.
Cool thanks. I've already backed it down to 200 mg/week.
I understand you're excited to feel good quickly, but it's a marathon, not a sprint. It's much better to adjust up than go down. Less is more I promise you.
Perhaps you're right. But no strength, appetite, or weight changes have manifested either. Even if I'm converting too much Testosterone into estrogen and killing libido, strength, appetite and weight changes should be apparent...
Once again, patience wins. Slow and steady is real. Day in, day out. Good share, @vhman. +1
Day#21
Sleep may be improving. Slept great last night. Was exhausted. Only once up to pee.
Night before slept deeper with vivid positive dreams. Again this is unusual. Woke up early tho and had trouble falling back to sleep which is usual for me
Sorta worried trt may not work for me. Nothing really to report other then better sleep past couple nights. No change in libido boners mood strength appetite or bodyfat.
Will continue on until April....
Wait till about week 4-5. Remember the trt compounds take about that long to stabilize. Kind of like a cycle of test cyp. Peak week and are usually week 5. Give it Some time man.
I go through a clinic, which covers the TRT with my HSA. It's been around 3 months now since I've been on a standard protocol of test c, HCG, and anti-estro. My body fat has been reduced drastically, but the biggest benefit is the mental focus and aggression (I mean as if I'm 30 and just want to get shit done). I'm almost 50 and work as an IT engineer, which tends to be staffed by younger folks, but I'm recognized as a heavy hitter and innovator in my new job, thanks to TRT. So not only does it help at the gym, but the mental aspects should not be discounted, you'll lose the fog and have the focus of a 30 year old again.
I get comments from 30 year old IT guys saying I don't look 50, and if I drink a lot of caffeine because I'm always on point and full of energy.
Thanks brother.
How long did it take for the trt to kick in? How long before u saw sex drive benefits ?
Test C is a longer ester, about 2-3 weeks for the full effect to kick in. Nice thing is, if you cycle, you never have to worry about PCT again and feeling like crap.
Day#19
Haven't felt much of anything until tonight. Felt mildly horny.....lol. Definitely not like me to feel this way. Sexual thoughts are more present....
According to users, libido kicks in anywhere from 1 - 6 weeks. Some guys feel nothing for the first month of TRT, then feel something in the second month, and then during the third month things really kick in. Other guys, much sooner. Different for everyone.
Will not stop. If TRT doesn't work for me Im literally fucked LOL Will run this until the end of April (when my specialist appt is). That gives me another five solid months to feel something.
Everything else is mostly the same. No change in appetite, strength, sleep, morning/night wood etc. I'm a bit happier, probably because I made the decision to start this after waiting for so many years. Keep you posted.
I also self medicated recently and tried proviron for the first time,partly as an estrogen blocker as I was taking dianabol (its all I had when starting again). The proviron at 50mg/day made me noticably hornier (taken twice a day 1 tablet at a time), so if you want a bit more boost you may consider this. I put below what I took before coming off rapidly (not recommended) for blood tests and endo referral.
OK so I’m off the juice a bit earlier than expected for blood tests for HRT.
What I actually took was
Week 1 5mg Dianabol2 (2 means twice a day 10mg total)
Week 2 5mg Dianabol3
Week 3 10mg Dbol in morning and 5mg Dbol2
Week 4 20mg Dbol in morning 15mg Dbol 2pm and 10mg dbol 8-9pm
Week 5 add 125mg Proviron morning and 140mg Andriol morning and 2pm
Week 6 add another proviron in the evening
Blood test next week for HRT so Friday night last Dbol, continue Andriol and proviron till saterday night then off for bloods Monday.
Thanks bro. Will consider proviron. Tried it earlier this year but had no effect. Could have been bunk gear. From a local lab
How did it go with the endo?
Not due to see him till 18th December, but will keep posting my experiences and hopefully someone will benefit from them (including me
).
Everyone reacts differantly to the drugs so start low and increase if necessary, one tab of proviron a day did something but 2 was much more noticable, I like to spread the doseage through the day because of short half lifes of orals, trying to avoid peaks and troughs.
I might also add I have used spedra (viagra like drug) with good effect, longer and harder erections but you need to cure low testosterone and Libido first for it to work properly. Frankly any Test makes me horny even at 58.
Sorry if thats a bit too much information
Day#13. Noticed signs of test kicking in tonight - some facial flushing/color and the felt that testosterone calmness. Did my 4th shot last night. Gear is smooth. No PIP at all...
Please keep this thread updated! I'm following with much interest. I'm a month behind you! (Gotta get through the holiday, get my blood work done, then jump in. Game on.) Keep rocking, and I'm really hopeful that this can bring some much needed fire to your life, indeed.
Thanks bro! Me too! Good luck and keep me posted !
You really need to get that dose down closer to 100mg / wk. 200-250mg really is a cycle for most people. You may be one of those guys that needs more to get to normal, but why not start out at the low end and work your way up if need be. I assume that it's gonna be a pain in the ass to get bloodwork done in Canada so you will be doing this by "feel". Start low and if you "feel good" keep the dose low. Higher doses only invite the potential for more negative side effects. You say yourself you just want to feel better, why risk the higher doses when you may feel great at 100mg / wk?
Good points man. All good points worthy of consideration. I'm impatient. A lower dose will take longer to kick in. I've waited ten years to feel normal, and now I'm like a kid in a candy shop about to lay into a chocolate sundae. Can't wait. I will dial it down. Haha everyone wants me to dial it down. Guys run grams of test a week. 250mg/week for a few weeks won't kill me. I will pare it down to around 150-200mg/week. Wait till it kicks in first.
After reading your post and the responses you left for everyone's questions I wanted to tell you to hang in their man. Getting started with trt is a royal pain in the ass as you know from seeing so many doctors. It is tough being judged by doctors that are suppose to be inquisitive and intelligent but more often than not are closed minded and uninformed about trt. Eroids and Google should not make me more educated on the subject than all those years of med school, but they do. The sad fact is they only spend about an hour on the endocrine system(from my gp's mouth) I know what your going through and I can tell you all the hassle is absolutely worth it to feel well again. Keep going to new doctors until you find the right one. It might be a gp or an endo but once you find someone that isn't judgemental and truly just wants to help their patients a huge weight will be lifted off your shoulders. Keep learning and researching, print out studies on the subject to back up what your saying when you speak to them. That way they can't pull the I'm the all seeing all knowing doc b.s. when they really don't have a clue. Situations where it happens more often than not: we don't have to test estrogen...your a guy, aromatase inhibtor....what is that? 1 shot every 14 days of test c is fine...that's how long it lasts. You don't need free t... Just total. This dance continues with every clueless doc. If you have solid info and copies to back up your knowledge the consultations will go much better. You can figure out if the doc is a good fit for you much faster so you don't waste your time or let them frustrate you.
As for how much better You feel, it is night and day. How long it takes to feel better depends on how good the doc is getting you dialed in. If they know their stuff you will be feeling much better in about a month. I wish you the best and I am always happy to help when it comes to trt since it is very personal for me. Good luck
Thanks Gymrat. Glad to hear somebody actually understands what I'm going through. Part of the frustration is I'm a big guy already. For some strange reason, I can put on muscle and I'm strong, but I have low T and all the associated symptoms. For instance, before the summer break, I was doing 7 sets x 10 reps x 400 pound squat. Ready to go up to 450.... This looks really bad in the Doctors office. They listen to me, look at me, and immediately assume I'm on steroids, and nobody wants to help. I have no reason to lie here. I did a short six week cycle back in January just to see if it would help my ED. I wasn't even squatting or deadlifting at the time. Boners galore. So I know its low T. Anyway.
The Doctor issue is whatever. I'm at the end of my rope with all that. I can't be bothered anymore. I seriously need to get some benefit from TRT, get some motivation and energy back, and then I'll have more energy to continue the fight. I hear Naturalpathetic Doctors are a good option up here for TRT. So if it doesn't work with the specialist in April, I'll try that avenue. TRT clinics exist up here, but the prices are steep. Most want between 600-900$ just for consultations and most don't do shots. Just gel. Anyway. Glad to hear you're doing well man. Hows your sex drive now?
I know exactly what you are saying. That happened to me at every doc I went to because I am a big guy. They get out the blood pressure strap for obese people and are already making assumptions before I even say anything. That is why having documented accredited studies printed out is so hopeful. Then you are not the big meathead in front of them. I have owned my own businesses since I was 13 but to them I am just big and intimidating. If they actually knew me they would know I am a big teddy bear that loves to guide and train employees, friends, family, or anyone that needs help. Once you find the right doc you won't feel like you need to justify yourself.
I thought the medical community was bad here but it sounds even worse there. Gel is pointless and expensive. Super hard to keep your t levels stable. That expense is pathetic. Test is so cheap that price is a crime. Just continue to learn and use all the resources to understand your blood work results and how to adjust your trt accordingly. Get bloods After your first six weeks to see where you are and study the results. Then you can understand each value and what it represents. Then do it again in three months to see how the adjustments you made affected you.
Thanks for the well wishes. I am still not perfectly dialed in, but it is close. I just had my blood work done a couple days ago so I am looking forward to the results. As for sex drive, imagine 16 year old insatiable you with all the experience you have acquired since then lol. Give your partner time to prepare physically and mentally!!!!
Thanks brother. I'll try my best to get blood work after six weeks on. And print out the studies and Havard protocol for TRT , cut-off levels etc so I go in with a solid, documented case. Several studies were published in recent years that demonstrate a link between low T and all-cause death. IOW, men with low T die earlier then men with normal and high T. Researchers don't know why. The studies themselves were large, meta-analysis type, peer reviewed.
16 year old eh???? Dude. If that happens to me, Im going to be the happiest man on the PLANET!! Lol. On that mini cycle back in January, the gear gave me infections so I didn't run it consistently. But when it kicked in.....yup. My old self back. So Im on day#12 here. Nothing to report really so far...
DCHI1can you please post the link to the harvard study. thanks
Harvard Low T cut off level (300 ng/dl)
http://www.harvardprostateknowledge.org/a-harvard-expert-shares-his-thou...
Clinical review: Endogenous testosterone and mortality in men: a systematic review and meta-analysis.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21816776
Normalization of testosterone level is associated with reduced incidence of myocardial infarction and mortality in men.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26248567
Hypogonadism as a risk factor for cardiovascular mortality in men: a meta-analytic study
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21852391
Low testosterone concentrations in men contribute to the gender gap in cardiovascular morbidity and mortality.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23182129
That sounds good buddy. There is also a big VA study other members on here have mentioned.
Just wait a couple more weeks and you will start to feel the differences. I hope you are the happiest man on the planet soon. Guys that have to go through this process deserve it. And yes you will be insatiable like a young beast. I told my wife she has to rent me out if she is not ok being twisted up like a pretzel on days that end in Y!! Of course that is not going to happen because her inner hulk will show if any other ladies try and take her golden ticket lol. The same is on the horizon for you chief. You will be there soon enough.
haha thanks man! You are my inspiration. If this happens...omg lol
It will happen and get even better once your levels are where you want them and balanced. It will be even more noticeable for you because the appreciation you will have for life in general and the sexual aspect of living is so much more than guys that haven't had to go through this process yet. I phrased what I said like being a kid because you do feel that way in a lot of ways. I get a big grin on my face when I have a skin splitting hard on just from seeing some hard nipples or all the bubble ass cheeks that are hanging out everywhere I go down here year round. Acting on things physically is amazing but the thing that really makes me happy is being able to get excited only from the freaky shit that goes down in my naughty mind without actual stimulation. Having your mind excited and wild is what makes you seek out physical stimulation more frequently and enjoy it exponentially greater. After being pros in the game so long the physical can be the focus but getting wound back up in the mental makes the physical that much more heightened.
haha so awesome. thank you. this is motivation for me. i will drop it down to ~150mg next week. read user complaints of facial aging from prolonged AAS use. Don't wanna open that can of worms.... lol
150mg /wk is my current dosage as well. I wouldn't worry about facial aging from aas. That shit happens regardless. Everyone ages differently, have different habits, and do different things for self care. I use every new moisturizer or serum my wife wants me to try. Seems silly to spend so much time on the body to let the face and skin go. A friend of ours is a PA and is working for a dermo at the moment. She told us the earlier you start botox on pronounced wrinkles it will be less noticeable whether or not you get treatments religiously every 3-6 months. Pronounced would be if the wrinkle is there without making a facial expression. I will be going down this road soon as well. Personal maintenance is key.
Right on. I hear good things about botox and micro-abrasion.
Personally, I don't have youthful genetics. Before lifting weights, my best friend said my face looked like a leather purse haha. I looked 10 years older then I was. I made some big changes:
1) no alcohol, drugs, smoking
2) lift heavy compound weight in the gym
3) decent sleep
4) raw vegetable salad every day (kale/swiss chard, carrots, cauliflower, broccoli, red peppers)
5) 2 tablespoons of Carlsons fish oil everyday.
Took 20 years off my face. I shit you not. Highschool girls used to hit on me at the gym (at 37 years old). Not saying I would (value my freedom), just saying. This year, took over eight months off for an injury and the summer. Lost 18 pounds of muscle and look older..... anyway, it's possible to look younger with heavy weight/good diet/clean living... my 2 cents...
Yep you already know what to do man. Put the same time and effort in to your face and skin as you do your body and it will be all gravy.
@tumbleweeds, first off, dude, don't be afraid to fill in the stats in your profile. It's important for this community to have a reference with who they're talking to. Not just that, it helps other men relate if their stats are similar, and thus you can more effectively share your experiences with people.
I'm going to be going the self TRT route soon as well. I've spent six months researching my ass off, and everyday I seem to learn something that pops up another question. I'm in the same boat you are. Low T, but I still can build muscle and still have strength. Since my (our) goal is qualitative (aka- "stop feeling like dog shit") compared to quantity (aka- "put on two inches on my biceps for the upcoming body building show") then I would encourage you to spend time researching every damn thread in this "OVER 40 TRT" section. You'll learn so damn much. Low dose AAS has helped a lot of people, but it obviously comes with it's drawbacks. Go in with your eyes open!
I've had several vets here on eroids tell me that if I do a blast, I should consider only blasting at 250 or 300mg per week, simply since building muscle is a secondary goal to feeling better. I say this simply to add to the voices below, 250mg per week is indeed a blast, not a TRT cruise.
I don't know how Canada is regarding using online places to order blood work (I'm in the States) but if you can, be sure to go into that doctor appointment in April with as much data as you can have.
Also, keep these stats weekly leading up to April.
weight
waist circumference (at belly button)
shoulder circumference (measure it just above the nipples around the chest)
I'm really curious to see how the next six months go for you. Please keep us posted here!
As always, it's still about diet & exercise while utilizing this medicine! I hope it all comes together for you. Feeling like shit is no fun.
Thanks Brother. I appreciate that. Took your advice and updated the profile. Bloods are a pain to get in Canada, but I will do some research and try to have something 'while on' to show the TRT Doc in April. And will make a note of my weight, waist and shoulder circumference and mark it on the calender as of today.
I've read a number of threads here already. Glad its a populated forum. My situation is basically dead-end. After 10 years of trying "natural cures" (supplements, diet, exercise, weight loss, sleep), no change in libido, energy, mood were noticed. Still have low T (~260 ng/dl). That's a stupid level for a 37 year old. My balls simply aren't working. I'm tired of waiting. Tired of all the resistance and pushback from GP's who have no interest in helping me. If self-admin sabotages the willingness of TRT docs to put me on therapy in the future, so be it. I really don't care anymore. I have lost so much opportunity and time. Anyway, not turning this into a pity party. Just want to feel and sleep normal again.
Many guys are prescribed 200mg/week Test E or C. Granted, that's upper threshold. But a 25% increase doesn't strike me as a clear cut distinction between a "TRT dose" and a "blast" dose. But ya, I will pare it down to 200mg/week once I start to feel something. Noticed some hairloss yesterday, so somethings happening. Urine also smells funky. I read these are excreted solvents from the oil. Bought the highest quality Canadian UGL gear. Nearly double the price of other labs. Has a good reputation.
All the best,
Brother, it sounds like you've begun your journey, and it sounds like you've spent enough time here to at least know what you're into, as well as to know that testosterone use entails and what you're up against.
You now know these things: Purchase protocol. Good hygiene. Mitigate post injection pain (aka-PIP). Get bloodwork, dial in your dose, and go forth to kick some ass.
For me, I'll be doing the same as you very shortly. I've learned all I can learn about testosterone without simply taking the plunge. So I'm jumping in. I've been tired, sore and lethargic for far too long. Time to get my fucking life back, just like you. I've got your back, brother.
As always, may I simply be one more voice to remind you that this compound will simply help you "get to normal." If you get back to a normal 22 year old testosterone level, you'll be just like that normal 22 year old. If he sits on his ass and eats cheetos, he gets fat and lethargic. If he hits the gym, eats clean and lives healthy as is possible (not overboard, but you know what I mean) then he can build a great physique that'll enhance his life for the better. Be that 22 year old! I plan to be "that guy" as well. Fit, full of fire, and ready to conquer my part of Earth. Cheers!
Thanks brother! I got your back too. Life is short man. Large, meta-analysis studies were published recently that correlate low T to early all-cause death in men. Scientists don't know why, but men with low testosterone levels die younger then men with normal and high testosterone. Know why? When I have low test, I don't care about anything. Everything is blah. Shit. There is no excitement. Can't get it up. What's the point. People in that space don't feel like living. Plus sleep is crap etc. Anyway....
I'm lucky in the sense I've never had a problem getting strong in the gym. Even with low T (260 ng/dl), I can push some impressive weight. The motivation to bang chicks is always there, but my body never cooperates so then Im gun shy and then I lose the motivation. But ya man, this is our health. Fuck the doctors. Best to do this all legit and medically supervised, but if its not possible....man, i've lost too much time.
But thank you for the reminder. Yes the protocol is key. Gotta get bloods. Thank you again.
I made the same mistake that you are making now and started my own TRT because I was frustrated with my doc. As many experienced guys here told me 250mg a week is cycling not TRT. I ended up at my endo after a long while and I got down to 100mg test E per week and that keeps my levels at about 800. I felt great at the higher dosages but there are some health concerns. If you are taking test E or Test C it is going to take a few weeks to start feeling better but it will happen. Im not a dumb guy but I feel so much better with the doctor and the guys on ERoids looking out for me. IMO I would stay at 100mg until my appointment in April.
Thanks man. I appreciate that. I will knock it down to 200mg, and see how I feel. Honestly, I'm not going for strength or muscle. I plan to run TRT as low as I can to provide benefit. Already have good size and need to lose some weight.
How are you feeling now? Better?
I feel great now. I did make the mistake of running my dosages too high and for too long. My problem was that when you spend so long feeling like shit and then you start feeling great, you dont want to stop. Yes when I dropped my dosage to 125 I felt it but really compared to where I was it was still so much better. I think a lot of guys here make the same mistake. Your mind takes over because you feel so good and you look so much better. Stay regimented and everything will work out for the best.
Thanks Brother. Wise words I will heed. Gotta remember this is a drug and use responsibly. Not get carried away.....minimize side effects which at my age could be very real... bump down to 200mg this week
ManimalKingAlso dont fuck with ugl test on trt its not worth the gamble you need properly dosed test more than a bodybuilder does, this is medicine now you need quality medicine, not BigDick pharma's roids. Spend the extra dime on pharma test cyp only.
I made this mistake before. Ugl test was half dosed a wrecked my hormones and mood till I figured it out.
UGL is the best I got. Canada is behind the times, and most GP's wouldn't even prescribe Androgel, even though my bloods are below the Harvard recommended cut-off level (300ng/dl). The supplement angle - already tried that. Spent >6K on supplements and various Test Boosters. Nothing. It was the propecia. Lots of studies/class action lawsuits against Merck for the drug. Anyway, once I see my guy in April I'll reassess.
underground is fine that's all I've ever used.... even pick one of the top 8 sources and you'll be just fine....look for reviews with guys over 200 karma
Sorry to burst some people's bubble but karma really doesn't mean much to experience. I'm a newb to most if not all aas and have over 200 karma. I've seen extremely detailed reviews from people with real life experience with a lot less karma and I've seen a lot of half assed reviews from high karma fan boys. You have to research the member giving the review as much if not more than the source.
ManimalKingUgl is not the best you can get. Theyre dozens of international sources on here selling pharma test with good success rates to Canada.
How do I know overseas "pharma test" isn't just another UGL?
ManimalKingAdrenal support is NOT a test booster!
Test boosters are bullshit.
Propecia has been linked to permanent ED and gyno issues.
Supplements NEED to be used with your trt protocol for optimum results from both.
ManimalKingYour hormonal health is intrinsically linked to the foods you eat and supplements you take. Lower that test dose my man and address your issues of libido fatloss sleep ect with supplements. Test will help but not as much as we both would like. Youre just about my age, time to put health first.
Trt=healthy
Light test cycle dose=not so healthy
Dont exceed 200mg a week.
That extra 50mg will make a bigger differnce than you think. Put the idea of strength and muscle building on trt totally out of your mind. The focus on trt is healthy hormonal function.
Thanks for the concern, guys.
Manimal - Yes, I consulted eight or nine doctors. My GP put me on Androgel several months ago. Problem is I can't afford it ($350 a month, out of pocket). He insisted no shots. Shopped around for Doctors, but in Canada, we're about 10 years behind the States in terms of healthcare. Made an appointment with a great TRT doctor for April 2016. That's the earliest I can see him. Until then, it'll be self-admin. Yes, 250 mg/week is high. I plan to dial it down to 100-200mg/week range. HCG will be added + an AI + I'll give blood once every two months minimum to keep hematocrit levels down. Thanks for your input, man. What kind of adrenal support and liver cleanse supplements do you recommend? Whats you dose? How long does it take to feel it working?
BigMurph - I took propecia/proscar for a couple years in my mid-to-late twenties. It ruined me. Before propecia I was totally normal. Slept great, huge libido, boners, energy etc. A few months in, everything declined. Finally stopped in my late 20's. Nothing came back. Night/morning wood, libido, erections, memory, gone. Funny thing is, even with low T, I can build muscle easily. Anyway, wasted nearly a decade of my young life waiting for a natural recovery. Never happened. So I'm doing this.