posted Tue, 11/24/2015 - 20:06
13710
TRT: Before and After? How do you feel now? How long does it take to feel the benefits?
ad
As the title says, how do you guys feel now on TRT as opposed to before you were on it? In what ways has it changed your life?
Just started self-admin @ 250 Test-E a week. On day#8 now. I'm hoping for libido, erectile, sleep, memory, mood and fat loss benefits. Have confirmed low T (~260 ng/dl). 38 years old. Plan to adjust the dose down to a minimum level where I feel benefit (100-200mg/week). Got a bit excited to start. Been almost 10 years with low T. Really want to feel something!!!
- Bookmark
- 0
- 0
Update. Started Doctor-prescribed TRT 9 weeks ago.
Weeks 1-6: ran HCG 0.4ml x 3 times a week.
Result: doubled testosterone from 9 nmol to 21 nmol (range: 7.5 nmol - 34 nmol). Nocturnal boners and pee erections came back. Went from about a 1 to a 3-4 out of 10, sexually. Some sex drive came back and pleasure.
Weeks 7-9: added Doctor-prescribed Testosterone Enanthate 100mg x once a week.
Result: unsure. take bloodwork next week. Doctor wants patients in the high-normal range. Libido has dropped noticeably. I'm about a 2 out of 10 now. Night and morning boners are also less frequent. My testosterone should be in the high range now. So I figure my estrogen may be too high.
My bloodwork at the end of week#6 (just HCG-monotherapy alone)
TSH.......................1.50 (ref range: 0.35 - 5.00 mIU/L)
T4 Free .................17 (ref range: 12-22 pmol/L)
Free T3..................5,7 (ref range: 2.6 - 5.7 pmol/L)
LH........................1< (ref range: 2 - 9 IU/L)
DHEAS................7.5 (ref range: 2.41 - 11.60 umol/L)
Testosterone........21.5 (ref range: 7.6 - 31.40 nmol/L)
Prolactin.............12 (ref range: 18 ug/L)
Estradiol.............82 (ref range: 224< pmol/L)
Any feedback welcome. I want sex drive and libido. That's my goal. Sleep was better shortly after I added testosterone but only lasted a few nights. Back to restless sleep.
Is that standard or sensitive estradiol assay? 0.4 ml doesn't tell how many IU it is.
Hi,
These are Canadian measurements. So metric.
Not sure what the conversion is, my friend. I would just go by the reference range and where it sits.
I've been following your progress for a long time now, and really appreciate your updates. Keep us posted regarding your estrogen numbers too! Once you're "dialed in," if you don't feel noticeably better, then you'll know that it's not your testosterone that's the issue. Keep searching. You'll get there.
Thanks. Glad to have you follow along
Cardio, endurance, muscle recovery = all up.
Boners, libido = 2 out of 10.
HCG alone restored ability to have sex 1-2 times a day, with a full boner. WIth some libido. And night boners. So that was huge.
I also dabbled in rec gear earlier this year and found my "sweetspot" by accident - fap five times a day or more etc. that warm feeling.
I know my body pretty well and I know it's not psychosomatic. So I feel confident. May take some time to get dialed in but what can u do.
I know this is an old post and got a bit off track. I did want to share my experiences on TRT.
I am on 200mg test cyp per week, anastrozle and hcg. I did seem to have a "honeymoon phase (maybe mental?)" about a month after starting. I never had ED but i had started getting morning wood again. I didnt experience better sleep either.
For me the biggest thing i noticed was that i recovered from workouts much faster. less soreness and i actually made gains in strength, lean muscle and lost fat. This isnt a miracle in the sense that I had to work for it but almost a miracle because i had worked out for years and struggled to maintain any gains i had made.
we are all different and will respond differently but i am all for TRT!!
Impaired recovery was an early sign of LowT for me. Then came exercise intolerance. Final stage was brain fog, cognitive dysfunction and ultimately ED with genital anaesthesia.
Inferior TRT (see below) restored ED but worsened the rest. I do hope current protocol will change things for the best.
Ya, that's me. We're in the same boat!
I'm feeling way worse, really, I have been on test E for a couple of months and the only noticeable androgenic effect is accelerated beard growth. Then come the estro sides, but AI can take care of those. For the rest, I feel WAY more tired, fatigued, and unmotivated than before. I'm going to check for thyroid and cortisol next week, but I don't know what else to look for. I've also reduced T dosage and introduced HCG.
Current protocol as follows: 75mg test e bi-weekly; hCG 250IU subq eod; ana 0.25 2x week.
Sorry to hear dude. No idea. I'm no expert and most experts don't really know whats going on.
I'm with a good Doc so I'll sit tight for awhile and see how things play out.
Hope you can get a solution to ur problem man.
Thanks.
Anyway, last bw revealed I'm low on iron and thyroid (again). I guess I will just need to up supplemental Iron and thyroid hormone.
Ya. Thyroid plays a huge role. A guy I follow on a propecia-help board swears by it - for libido, boners and energy.
I started T3 recently, in addition to l-T4. It's helping a lot!
Ya that's great to hear!!
How much, and how do you feel now? What has changed?????
I started as low as 5mcg but it's already making a difference, I will be increasing up to 25 then re-test. I was already taking 150mcg LT4, which I will likely need to lower.
It seems to balance out the "depressive" sides I get from TRT. It's no the sad-type kind of depression but rather a lethargic feeling, it's like T makes me hypothyroid again by augmenting the need for thyroid hormone.
I feel slightly more energy physically, wanting to work out a bit (though I'm really in a bad shape now), cognition also is somewhat improved, but libido is still kill.
I seriously hope T3 will put me on the right track to recovery (although a long one) as I'm really running out of options.
I have been on TRT for two years now.
Diagnosis of LowT (150) by an endo. Had an MRI and a pituitary panel made - no mayor issues. MRI unveiled a small, non secreting microadenoma. TSH was found inappropriately normal for low thyroid due hashimoto (I'm on 125mcg LT4 now).
Prolactin was 12. FSH&LH low-normal, everything else OK.
Was started on Tostrex, 20 mg/die. Morning T crushed to 75. Developed anaemia, pallor, and overt lethargy. I was sleeping most of time, becoming unaware of my worsening condition. Eventually lost all appetite. Weight went down by about 25 lbs.
It was not until six month later I went to another endo, which started me on Nebid/Reandron.
Big improvement. Joints weren't as achy (probably had low E2 going on too), lethargy slowly subsided, morning wood appeared (missed it for YEARS), although mood significantly worsened. Also had brain fog all of the time, dizziness, poor nighttime sleep, bloating, and mild oedema on legs. Gyno worsened. Libido took a whole year to make a shy appearance (it later subsided...).
Problem with Nebid was huge variability over time. After each pin I unexplained felt way worse, only to feel better two weeks later. Out of the whole interval, I got about three weeks fine and that was it.
Overall, I experienced only mild anabolic/androgenic effects. No libido, but morning wood. Beard grew faster one month after each pin to return to baseline two, perhaps three weeks later. Ematocrit raised by 3%. Strength displayed huge variations, but never returned to pre-TRT level.
I lamented such lack of response to my endo. He replied that Nebid is the most advanced TRT available, thus refusing to change it. Last pin of Nebid was six month ago.
In April, I started TRT on my own with Test E. Being also aware of unwanted estro effects causing brain fog, bloating, etc, I included some ANA. This is especially important for me because I know E2 up regulates binding proteins synthesis in the liver. These include SHBG, which aas users should be familiar with, TBG (thyroxine binding globulin), and more. While I was on Nebid, I have seen up to 30% decrease in free thyroid hormones (FT4/3) which made me feel horrible. I thus believe excess E2 (Nebid drove my T up to 2000 ng/dl, so that must be expected) might be a possible cause, although from a quantitative standpoint I'm not sure. Giving physiological conditions, effect of E2 on TBG shouldn't be an issue because negative feedback on thyroid should return free levels to baseline, but with underlying thyroid dysfunction it could be potentially a problem.
In addition, I had pre-existing mild gyno, since childhood - It must be something in the genetic. I experienced nipple discharge with LowT and again with Nebid.
Current protocol is 150mg IM every 5 days. I know this is a lil highish for TRT, but consider I also struggle with elevated SHBG. I plan to slowly lower dosage later on. ANA .5mg EOD. Still getting bloating, water retention and on.
I'm feeling a bit better but with great amplitude of variation. I know homeostasis is the most important of goals, so I'm keeping Test dosage where it is. I'm not sure about anastrozole since upping dosage resulted in achy joints again. I'm actually considering exemestane, which seems to offer a better profile.
Will have bloods later this month.
Thoughts?
Had increased diuresis yesterday. Was peeing all along... I think I've hit E2 too hard. Also aches and more fatigue than usual.
It appears I'm a non responder to testosterone. I'm not even sure how that's possible, but it my instance, nothing worked
Ran innovagen @ 150 - 200 mg per week x 6 weeks. No effect
Bridged to bio optima (local lab half the gym is on ) @200 - 250 mg a week x 6 weeks. No effect. Some strength. That's it
Then ran another local lab at 320 - 350 mg a week x 6 weeks. No effect. Nothing.
Nips got sore so had to use an ai. Obviously there was test in the juice. Strength went up maybe 10 percent. I sweat like a pig. Had a few days where boners were fully hard but never lasted. Just a flash In the pan then back to baseline which is nothing.
See a specialist end of this month. Hoepfully he can sort me out
Without bloodwork you are just guessing. You've got no experience with testosterone before this so you don't know how to "feel" your way through this. Stop fucking around and get bloodwork done. Period!
Did you get bloodwork done?
Day#24
Success. It's working. Only anabolic effects, so far. Strength is up quite a bit and so is appetite.
No other effects tho, in terms of libido, wood, energy etc :( Nothing is happening down there
Running 150 mg/w + 2.5 mg Letrozole
That means the lab I ran prior to this was likely counterfeit crap. Wasted nearly 7 weeks with that bunk.
Of course, without blood work, it's all guessing. However, how you FEEL is indeed a good indicator.
I really hope that you start to enjoy the "extracurricular benefits" soon. In my world, I'm noticing that after three weeks, my morning wood has returned and my libido is indeed coming back. Sadly, I didn't realize how many years I've gone not fully comprehending how low T has culminated to where I was by the end of last year. Oh well. Live and learn.
Regarding your use of Letro, are you suing 2.5mg daily? EOD? Weekly? (I know I could spend a few minutes researching letro, but I'm lazy this morning. It's something I need to research more of, cuz it is a powerful drug.)
Hey Guys.
Wanted to give a brief update. About 16 days into the new lab (running at 150 mg/week, Test-E).
Not much going on.
Key piece of information I omitted prior - I'm a former Propecia user that experienced indefinite sexual side effects from the drug (Post-Finesteride Syndrome).
Anyhow, most former propecia users crippled by the drug, do poorly on TRT. Even when the Testosterone puts their levels into the high lab range, they experience almost non of the androgenic effects (libido, boners, aggression, confidence etc). Some experience none or very little of the anabolic effects.
Anyway, I think I'm in this boat. So my experience with TRT probably isn't very relevant to the average TRT user.
Cheers guys.
Sorry to hear about your illness Tumbleweeds, however 16 days is a bit short for injections to really kick in and given your circumstances I would be taking a larger doseage 300-500mg/week, just as a loading phase to try and see some results, good luck but you probably need medical advice from a specialist if possible.
Thanks Bro. Have an appointment with a specialist in April. Will solider on until then.
If no effects are witnessed by the 5th week mark, I'll take your advice and up the dose.
..
@tumbleweeds, there HAVE to be more members on eroids that live in Canada and get blood work done. It is so freaking important.
The large gentlemen at your gym sure get their blood work done. Don't be afraid to strike up a conversation with them. Don't make the conversation about them. Make it about you. "I want to know where my hormone levels are at but it's so damn expensive. Do you have any ideas?" etc.
Brother, this AAS shit isn't a game to fuck around with. If you're fucking up your insides, there can be ramifications that can literally take years to correct (assuming they ever get corrected at all). Your body WANTS homeostasis. Without data, you can't help it achieve that "new normal."
I know you're keenly aware of this NEED to GET DATA by now, and you feel your hands are tied.
Brother, I'm rooting for you, big time.
AAS isn't just about sticking a needle in you glute, then eating some tuna fish and doing some curls.
This is about adopting the head space of a fighter. If you're gonna pin, you gotta start scrapping. When a door is closed, you keep looking for that window. You don't just lie down and say, "fuck it, I hit a dead end, I'm done." You scrap. You fight. You dig. You get strong, and you use that strength to make your world better for you and those around you.
Brother, drugs aren't the key to success. Your mindset is.
I've been low for years. I've taken my health into my own hands, and I won't live life lying down anymore.
Please don't think that I consider myself some sort of hero of a movie. Nope. I'm a normal dude, trying to be a good husband and a good father. My insides aren't optimal for kicking total ass at life, so I'm using logic, data, intelligence and caution to change my body back into the machine I know it can be.
That whole "don't take NO for an answer" isn't about being an asshole to people. It simply means that YOU are in control.
Don't lay down and be passive. Be active. Ask questions. Seek advice.
Make friendships with those gents at your gym. We all want to help each other out, but you gotta be the first person that simply says, "if other people are succeeding, fuck this, I can succeed too."
The answer is out there. You simply gotta go get it. Mr. Marada has your back.
Well put. Im 48 and doing well at my program. Knowledge and learning is an everyday challenge.
+1 For your attitude, advice and fighting back, I'm doing the same and know how tough it can be.
Regards last chance
I'm loving the skepticism.
I will say my hair has fallen out at an increased rate since I began so it's definitely not bunk gear.
That's about the only effect noticed tho lol
If your having an issue with hair loss use nizoral 2% shampoo EOD or m/w/f. It will take care of the problem.
You should have had an effect long ago Tumbleweeds, Theres something wrong either with the gear or yourself, pay for the bloodwork and find out and possibly try a new supplier for UGL. I self medicated with some old out of date Dianobol I had and almost immediate effects, my body was crying out for some Testosterone and the dianabol was better than nothing, pretty low dose at 10 mg a day to start (Taken morning and evening as short half life). I personally feel your gear is crap as virtually anything should perk you up with your T levels at your age.Good luck anyway but consider getting private blood tests if you can.
..
I call BS on your excuses to get bloodwork. There is so much going on with changes in hormone levels, RBC count, cholesterol, BP etc. YOU NEED to get blood work. It is not an option. If your doctor won't give you a requisition form, go to a different doctor.
You tell us your levels are 260 ng/nl. How did you get those numbers without bloodwork? Test levels are not part of a normal physical -particularly at 38. What did you tell the doctor to get him to test your levels? Tell him again. That is, if any of that is true.
Try going to a private healthcare facility like Medisys.
If you are willing to pay out of pocket, Naturopathic Doctors can run any lab test you want. You can claim it under your medical benefits as a "naturopathic service" and get the money back.
http://www.naturesintentionsnaturopathy.com/medical-testing/medical-labo...
http://groupepromedic.ca/en/blood-sampling
http://www.copemanhealthcare.com/health-services/family-doctor/
..
Day#37
Jack shit going on. I think this is bunk gear.
No change in weight.
No change in appetite.
No change in strength.
No change in libido.
No change in erections.
No change in mood.
No change in energy.
No change in sleep.
NOTHING. NADA.
This is middle of WEEK 6.
Upping the dose to 250 mg this week. Then go as high as 350mg/week, for the rest.
Dont give a fuck about warnings. This isn't doing shit all. Probably just grapeseed oil in a bottle. Fucking UGL.
The one side effect I have noticed is increased hair loss. Like a few hairs a day and a periodic itchy scalp, which is totally not normal for me, at all. Probably some testosterone in the gear, but not much.
Anyway, very disappointed. Fucking waste of time.
Sorry to jump in. But Reding I have to. U state no. No increase in appetite. I take that you are eating. If you consume more your body will ask for more. Ifyour not than your tummy isn't going to want more. Appetite is what you force force yourself to eat after forcing your body and tummy will follow. Steroids will not put the protein on a spoon for you. You have to want and make yourself eat. Good luck and not being dickess.
You have got to be one of the most impatient and hard headed people I have seen on here in a while. You've gotten excellent advice throughout this forum and you've listened to none of it. You are destined for failure in this little experiment. Order some shit to do a proper PCT and then go see a doctor. You are not qualified to do this on your own. I truly wish you the best and I hope that you do get it all sorted out, but you are in over your head.
It could be the UGL, have you got bloods yet to see what your levels are? You really need to get them, I can't understate the importance of them.
Like everyone is saying, if you're not getting bloods done, you're wasting your time, and money.
This is canada. Not possible to buy bloodwork. Doctors won't requisition it. In order to get two sets of blood work I had to see ten doctors. Not wasting my time with that bullshit ether
Here's the thing. It may be bullshit, but self-TRT'ing isn't something you really want to do. Once you start TRT you're pretty much on it for life, and you're a bit younger than me. You go down that road, expect to be shut down, and when you're in your 40s you find it difficult to do UGL for TRT (which is sounds like you already are), and you give up or whatever, imagine how you're going to feel being shut down for the rest of your life. I personally go through a clinic here.
It's also more than just getting a reading on whether or not you have legit stuff, and your hormone levels, but also what's going on on the inside of you. Your cholesterol levels could get messed up with estro being too low, RBC being too high, or other things could be getting messed up inside you. We're not talking short cycles, PCT, then clean for a while, we're talking a constant load of hormones on you. Get a doctor, it's your life you're messing with, and you only get one run at it.
Day#31
Not much going on.... At the magic 5-week mark.
No change in appetite, strength or weight.
Had a couple days recently where i had more energy/get up and go. Did chores all day, which is totally unlike me. Overall, had a few days where I had more erotic dreams. Overall, had a few days where I felt that "open" testosterone feeling.
Otherwise, that's it. No change in boners, sex drive, mood, well being. Beginning to wonder if the UGL I'm using is bunk. Running at 200 mg/week.
Will continue until week#10, then try another UGL. So far, disappointed. Keep waiting for this big change that all the TRT users say they get, and it ain't happening :(
Brother, did you ever get any blood work done? (Blood tests will tell the story of where you're at.)
Yea man blood test seriously. You will not be able to dial in your trt dose or ai without it. Its very important. Does privatemdlabs.com not offer in canada?
1: 200mg/w is too much for the average person. My doc told me most people are somewhere around 140mg/w on cyp.
2: ai is important, some people need or dont it need it. You wont know without tests.
3: you have all your other hormones to worry about also.
This is something you need to take care of for your health, you can't exactly go off a feeling man.. Idk if you live close to a border or something but maybe a trip to the border line cities every couple months wont be a bad idea if that helps you get your bloods taken then you get to log in on the site and check your levels. Its all about being safe man.
Wish it was that easy, my friend. Up here in the Great White North (Canada), bloodwork can only be requisitioned by a Doctor, afik. Difficult to get and to be honest, not worth the hassle...
Even if my E is out of range and suppressing libido/boners, I should notice strength/appetite/weight changes from a near quadrupling in Testosterone levels.....
So brief update. Day#24.
Not much going on. No change in anything really. Appetite, mood, sleep, boners, libido, energy, weight, strength etc. All the same.
Ran the first 2 weeks at 250 mg/week.
3rd week onward at 200 mg/week.
Mid way through 4th week now.
Missed Mondays shot. Was away. Just took it now (Wednesday...2 days late). No problem with the injects. Using a 25g x 1 inch pin. Alternating delts.
Just to be clear, I will run this until April 2016 when I see a local specialist, even if I experience no benefit. In for the long haul.
Will likely buy some Aromasin and HCG shortly, to combat possible Estrogen sides.
Even if I'm estrogen dominant and libido/boners don't kick in, strength, appetite and weight changes should manifest. Nothing on that front yet either.
Will keep you posted.
Good update. I'm rooting for your.
For estrogen sides, the most commonly reported symptom is itchy nipples, or hard nipples that are sore/sensitive. I've read enough here on eroids to learn that people can be different, and without blood work, it's a guessing game. Regardless of your April appointment, don't be afraid to dig around and figure out how to get a blood test done up there in Canada. (If I recall, that's where you are, right? Forgive me if I'm wrong. I'm old and tired. Ugh.)
I'm getting my last blood test done just after Christmas, then I get to jump into the lovely self administered TRT game myself. I'm gonna start slow and steady, and my plan is to get bloods done every six weeks for half a year to figure out what is (and isn't) working. I'll keep you posted too, brother. Keep rocking, stay patient, and lift hard, regardless of any pins or not!
Still on it.... ;)
@tumbleweeds, I've also read that a lot of guys who self administer will start with 200mg (or more) per pin to try and "jump start" their T recovery.
THIS TURNS OUT TO BACKFIRE ON MANY PEEPS.
What happens is, your body sees all the excess Testosterone and converts it to Estrogen derivatives. It's always high E stuff that fucks up what Testosterone SHOULD be doing. As a result, some peeps have reported that it takes MONTHS to finally get into homeostasis, which would've simply been achieved with patient 100mg pins.
Obviously this is anecdotal without blood test data to back up the claims. I wish I'd have read this weeks ago so I could've shared this with you when you first posted! At any rate, good luck indeed, brother, and don't be afraid to simply be patient. You're old enough to know what a week, a month, and a year are.
Thanks for jumping in. I've read just as many reports from guys who start at 200 mg/week or 250 mg/week and love it.
Day#24. Not feeling much of anything. So I may be in the later camp that aromatizes too much....