Prolactin induced gyno is not physiologically possible?
Is this legitimate information?
Source: https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/myth-buster-prolactin-tren-d...
Excerpt:
" Myth: You need to take caber if you are running Deca/tren because it will give you bitch tits.
Common forum lore states you need to run caber with tren/deca. It has been my personal experience that prolactin and Tren/Deca have 0 correlation. This has been found in literature as well.
If there is a correlation, it is between estrogen and prolactin. Which leads to the second myth buster in this thread.
Prolactin induced gyno is not possible physiologically. Prolactin alone create glandular tissue. If you have a high estrogen, it is the culprit for said "gyno" not prolactin.
In conclusion: Do not spend your money on caber, it serves no purpose. Well, caber is used to treat acromegaly.
Acromegaly is a condition where your brain produces too much igf-1/hGH. So this medication will lower IGF-1/hGH, but what importance could that be to us weight lifters?
Sorry if this post seems arrogant, just busting a myth. "
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It says in the beginning that it creates glandular tissue which is gyno. Prolactin also causes lactation hence the name PROlactin. But I have heard that estrogen has to be a part of it. Without estrogen prolactin supposedly shouldn't be a problem. Caber is absolutely a wise cycle support to use. Some may not need it but I'm not one of them.
Memorable quotes from CBBurrr below:
This couldn't be a more useless topic than if a complete moron designed it.
If whether I take a little caber when I take Tren or Deca prevents prolactin based gyno or whether there is no such thing a prolactin based gyno - what I care about is whether the caber or any other DA is preventing me from gaining muscle mass or losing fat or both depending on what I'm doing. If it's not trashing my cycle, if it's not depriving me of lbs. of new muscle mass, why do I give a rats ass really. I take steroids and peptides to pack on the muscle. If I think there is prolactin based gyno and I take a small amount of caber to prevent it and I'm right or I'm wrong unless it makes me weaker, kills my appetite, destroys the effectiveness of the stack of juice I'm on, it is of little importance and totally uninteresting to me.
I don't know why people even talk about this anymore. Take a DA or don't when u run 19-nors - see what happens to YOU. The doses of DAs we take are so small it's not like they bring a massive onslaught of terrible side effects. At least not for ME.
Gearhead,
I agree with you that the simple solution is to run a little caber with your 19-nor just in case. I'm just not content with leaving the reasons behind 19-nor gyno as an unknown. I want to keep reading and learning and find out whats behind it.
I'm not advocating to caber, or not to caber. Just declaring the debate to be unresolved.
There are other forums that promote no caber with 19-nors, and also declare the debate to be over. I call bullshit there too.
Bro, I just thought you got carried away a bit with that one. This has been going on for years and speaking only for myself I have lost interest in this a long time ago. If for whatever reason it interests you - by all means, research, write, experiment, debate - just not with me. LMAO LOL
^^ fair enough. I'm new to roids, so this is a new debate to me.
Right up there with adex and estrogen rebound.
There's another one. I use letro exclusively for years. It manages my E2 the way I want. People say letro is shit, use aro because of this that and the other thing. I'm too busy training and dieting and working and trying to answer questions on here to get caught up in things that have little impact or value. Trust me - whether I use adex or aro or letro or the mast / mest combo to control estro the way the Brits like it is not gonna determine how I place in my next show. And, thus, why should the endless discussions about AIs demand my attention?
Im a letro guy myself that an adex.
Damn Hippie!
RustyhookerOne clinical use of caber. Dose 1.75.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18708434
parkinsons and caber. 6 mg a day!!!!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16367894
Our typical dosing. .25e3d
http://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/cabergoline-oral-route/prope...
P2i2talthough I do not believe this to be true about it not closing prolactin induced gyno, even if it doesn't cause prolactin induced gyno that does not mean it does not affect your prolactin levels which in turn will affect your dopamine response. a dopamine agonist such as caber or prami helps with more than just the gyno part of prolactin issues. It will also help with increased mood, motivation, sleep, and other aspects that dopamine is involved with.therefore I believe it to still be helpful even if it is not just for the prevention of the gyno part of it. My .02
This again. May the day come, O God, when this endless and useless debate ends.
OK Bro. Whatever you say. Here's a medical link that differs with your myth buster.
http://www.usmle-forums.com/usmle-step-1-forum/6334-prolactin-gynecomast...
Quoting from that link verbatim is the following:
Yes prolactin can cause galactorrhea and gynecomastia because it stimulates the mammary glands to produce milk and also it causes breat tissue hyperplasia.
There's something called Neonatal Milk or Witch's Milk, this is a condition seen in newborn infants (males and females) due to exposure to placentally transferred maternal prolactin.
One of the most common clinical features of prolactinoma in males is the development of gynecomstia.
Males are less likely to develop galactorrhea (although they can) not because they don't gave glandular tissue, but because they don't have enough estrogen which is needed to prime the breast tissue before prolactin can work.
~~
If you want to run high doses of Tren w/o a dopamine agonist, please have at it. Don't forget to report back to the board with your findings. We, here at eroids are inquiring minds - we want to know!
Since when did a forum post on a discussion board become "medical link"
I can quote a couple of guys that say they are DR's that completely disagree.
This is hardly a useless debate, it's one of the best debates we have in the world of steroids.
From all the actual medical literature I've seen, prolactin can exacerbate a gyno condition caused by estrogen but will not directly cause it.
Simple answer then. Don't run caber and run some deca and tren at some good dosages and get prolactin induced sides like milk from your tits.
Known multiple guys who didn't run estrogen blockers because they looked and felt good, never got gyno etc etc, all of them got bloods and guess what? Their estrogen numbers were 4 to 5 times off the charts , but they looked and felt great. Looking at that, just because on the outside things are good does not mean on the inside shit is utter chaos. There are plenty of accredited medical journals that go both ways some that are old and some recent ones. At the end of the day your run an AI to keep estrogen down, at the end of the day you run caber or prami to keep prolactin down.
When guys argue back and forth and some newb reads it and says look I don't need an AI or look high prolactin wont give me gyno so I don't need any prolactin control and than when shit gets out of control who do we blame? Do we blame the op Or do we blame guys like you CB because you wanted to argue the whole well what if scenario?
At the end of the day consistently pull blood work. Do not try and reinvent the wheel , just do what works pretty simple, don't agree that's fine, but don't put it out there so someone else can potentially have harm caused because of it. Just like guys who say if they control estro their prolactin wont get out of range, many guys have done that and before they know it they were using titty milk in their coffee.
What I do know is if you take an AI and control your estrogen while pulling blood work your estro wont get high and all the sides that come from it wont happen.
What else I know is if you pull bloods and pay attention to prolactin levels, use caber or prami when it rises you wont have prolactin issues period, what else is there to argue about?
Always have it on hand, period , shouldn't be any argument there.
I heard you can take massive amounts of vitamin B6 and it saves you from prolactin and gyno in general. I know its true because I read it on the internet. On a side not there was someone who got B6 poisoning along with his moobs. I believe you should control estro AND prolactin not one or the other. I tried skipping ai on cycle once because I felt great and never felt any lumps. Endo pulled bloods and asked me if I on my period yet. Estro was so high on a simple 500 a week cycle it was amazing. Just because I had no lumps or signs of gyno EXTERNALLY did not mean SHIT. Endo put me on Letro for 2 weeks. Would I have gotten gyno? I don't care to fkn think about it. ALWAYS have or use an ai, ALWAYS use prolactin control either small or regular dose if on a 19. I don't give a shit who you are.
RustyhookerBeing a doctor and disagreeing. Just visit the trt forums or any forum for that matter. The trt doctors aren't even fully aware of adex, aromasin in many cases. I asked my doctor about clomid, Nolvadex, adex, aromasin, hcg.....He had absolutely no answers about any, pulled out his desk reference.
After grilling him his answer was I needed to ask endocrinologist with a PhD.
so are you saying if you control estrogen, prolactin gyno wont be an issue?
medical studies posted anywhere can be debated, real life experience is much more valuable, as gearhead said, try running tren or deca without protection, see what happens.
I'm saying that there is a strong argument to support that^^^.
There is also strong real life experiences that oppose that.
The debate is far from over!
RustyhookerAgree. Control estro and prolactin is controlled. Estro goes up and it's a tag team hormone combo of issues.
this debate has been going on for years on every forum, there is no definitive answer, either way some people are more susceptible than others, the thing that needs to be remembered, wether suffering from gyno or not, the issue is still underlying, meaning the PGR is still wreaking havok on the system anyway, if you control estrogen it will prevent higher aggravation, but no matter what its still awaken when running certain compounds ie: tren and deca for example, sure you can get away with out the physical superficial sides, but the other sides are not worth it, its always best to cover the bases to prevent any hiccups on cycle, caber is my preference, prami and bromo are good, and people even have results with vitamin b and potassium protocols, i say go pharma script meds though.
dude just sent you a friend request, have questions about a heart attack
Thanks, that was a copy/paste by the way, i should be more specific, was enquiring in reguard to low dose tren ace if caber/prami would be needed with doses of 75-100mg EOD of TrenAce for 3-4 weeks max..?
I dunno. I really don't. BUT, 0.25 mg caber e3d ain't gonna hurt nothing. I always run my ancillaries. I just don't subscribe to the notion that my cycles are gonna be dramatically better - so much better I can see the difference in the mirror if I cut out ancillaries if I think I can get away with it. My opinion, many will disagree. I just don't want to be annoyed by gyno anything - no itchy bull crap, no lumps I need to Letro into submission, and in the worst of cases - no lactation -nada. And, may the force protect me - gyno surgery? OMG - the expense - most insurance policies will in the US will not cover that if there is even a whiff of suspicion it was self inflicted from steroid abuse. Some policies just won't cover it in any case viewing it as a cosmetic procedure.
thank you, i plan to have gyno surgery at some point as a preventative measure unless i turn out to be one of the lucky ones
75-100mg eod is up to 400 a wk. that's not necessarily a low dose. You'd be wise to keep caber on hand. No one can tell you if you'll get gyno because everyone is different, but keeping estrogen in check is important, which will matter how much test you're running with it. I think you're just trying to save money by not purchasing caber. It's not worth it man. Basically what that source you posted is saying is if you keep estrogen non existent than prolactin gyno can't happen. But why crush estrogen when you can just keep them both in check with aromasin and caber.
I went ahead and dramatically lowered thoes numbers to 35 - 50mg max EOD
You said you were "Busting a myth"........... Huhh?
You should have just simply asked the question ...... be careful when posting utter crap in here bro... we have some really sharp minds all just waiting to pounce!........ Gearhead being one of them!!
I asked:
Is this legitimate information?
Source: https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/myth-buster-prolactin-tren-d...
The OP in that link was "myth busting" i posted the excerpt and link
Sorry thought it was evident i was enquiring about a topic in a link
But yes, that is my question, would an anti prolactin be needed with a low dose short tren ace kicker?
Yes keep it on hand. Look at it like this I know many guys who ran small test cycles and because they figured it was small in nature they wouldn't have the need for an AI but shit started hitting the fan with estro sides and it took soo long to obtain an Ai the estro sides caused gyno...... But it being a small cycle many said it wouldn't happen. Well what people fail to realize is everyone is different and the way they react to foreign chemicals induced into the body so what one person gets as far as prolactin sides on a small cycle could differ substantially from person to person. This has been proven. Medically and from personal experience. So does that answer your question.
Yes thank you, i understand.
I was wondering because of the debate i keep seeing on it : https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/bill-roberts-anabolic-pharma...
And then this steroid profile written by the same Bill Roberts from the link above :
https://thinksteroids.com/steroid-profiles/trenbolone-acetate/
I don't feed into the shit my friend I'm sorry. I've gone on what I've repeatedly seen in person. I've seen guys not use an AI and do fine on the outside but on the inside their estro is through the rough as it builds and builds..... I've also seen the same on 19nors they don't get any visual sides but inside shit is hitting the fan. Best way to combat this is pull baseline bloods to see where your levels should be and pull bloods halfway through to see what's elevated and lower it. Always have a stockpile of AIs and caber because you never know as everyone is different and what worked once my night work again so its best to be safe than sorry.
Plus 1 on that; my friend and I both started a cycle at the same time with the same product; sus @600 a week e3d. I needed an ai after 8 weeks because I started to look like a beachball face, he had surgery to remove the huge fkn lump under his left nipple after week 5. he had no real signs he was getting gyno or at least he wasn't telling me he was. The most I get is itchy ass nipples and when you know your body you know if its a sign or if its a rough tshirt.
Keep the shit on hand like everyone is saying OP.
I understand, thank you. I have plenty of Aromasin on hand, just no anti-prolactin: caber/prami etc.
And why would you run tren or anything else when your on a detox at the moment for heroin?
Ive never used heroin in my life nore am i going through detox, i was addicted to pain pills at one time after using them for long peroid after an injury i used methadone at a treatment facility to get off the pills, i believe your referring to the post i replied to where the guy was trying to get off methadone and i suggested he try using test at trt doses as thats what they do at the more expensive facilities to help with the withdrawal along with B12, also opiates lower your T, look at the photos i posted, does that look like the body of a heroin addict?? Not that Im a pro bodybuiler or even very aesthetic, but an addict wouldn't be able to maintain their physicality hence the term "heroin sheek" to describe anorexic models body type. The only person ive seen use heroin and be able to maintain muscle is Jerry Ward altho he was already competing at an amature/intermediate level and using AAS
"Im in the middle of finishing outpatient rehab, ive not used any pills in years, they are trying to offer me suboxone too but i refuse to switch up agin, the methadone they got us on now is bad enough, ive detoxed myself down, at 30mg now, dropping 5mg a week and will be outta there in a few months, lifting helps"
This ^^^^ is what you wrote 2 weeks ago in here https://www.eroids.com/forum/general/off-topic/the-recovery-lounge....na...
How can you eat on that shit? Doesn't it kill your appetite? Also how is your recovery after lifting on methadone?
Yea i quit totally im all done, i quit early , the extra cardo and lifting helped i have an extremely high metabolism i never had bad side effects from it, i just sucked it up and felt like shit a few days, i was never on it very long once i realized the methadone is more addictive than the pain pills, i mever had a huge habbit to begin with at the height of my addiction i was taking 1 30mg roxy a day, most people do 6 to 10 and are shooting them up, i never hit rock bottom , no one around me ever knew
I give you all the props in the world for getting off pills and Methadone, but your story doesn't quite make sense to me. Methadone is about 100 times harder to come off of than pills. If you went from 30 mg to zero in less than two weeks, you'd be in major withdrawals right now. Withdraw from methadone is hell and takes up to a month to feel somewhat normal. Protocol is 2-3 mg per two weeks. That is really the only way to no go through major withdrawals. I have a very close friend who runs a clinic.
I'm not trying to start something here, just trying to make sense of what you're saying.
Yes you are correct, im through the bad part or withdrawal now tho, but some residual effects are still there, i Handel the withdrawal pretty well and i wasn't on long enough for it to build up in my system like that and yes your rite on the protocol they tried to get me to stay but its bullshit, they are legal drug dealers making a huge profit , i exhaust myself enough at the gym every day and sweat so much it's helping to expedite the withdrawal, im just lucky i guess, it's mental will power i suppose, i dont want to be addicted and am determined not to be, i dont have an addictive personality i never got high off the pills, i just had to take one a day to feel normal once i realized i had become physically addicted. But if you want to know the specifics im using 99% pure nascent iodine from the raw crystals to help clear my bodys receptors and detox, at this point its just an aggravation getting to normal, i feel weaker and have to put more effort into getting motivated to lift but im not like having to be strapped down to a bed freaking out from withdrawal , for me the methadone/pills actually increased my gains because i couldn't feel the fatigue, your numb to pain in a sense. I never experienced all the bad side effects people talk about, probably because i didn't lay around eating cheetoes and smoking pot all day like most of them do, only sides i had was sugar cravings at night and i believe it lowered my testosterone altho i have no proof but after being on opiates every day for a period of time it must of had some effects on T lvls.
so are you natural? or you have cycled? im not interested in any ones narcotic habaits, im interested in your cycle history and lifting experience? what have you used aas related. im gonna be harsh here, im tired of drug addicts or ex drug addicts bringing it up like this, yeah well done, you kicked it, cool, it reminds me of rewarding the naughty kid at school, hey man well done, you havent shot up dope for a week, here have a pat on the back, ive spoken with quite a few other members regarding this, trading drugs for aas is not a good thing, like were supposed to give exemptions for it coz you junked out, went to 125 pounds then gained 40 pounds of muscle?? seeing it daily, its a bad trend.
true cycle history, diet, training, your frame isnt ready for any steroids yet.
you read my mind and then put it to paper, Bravo.
Props to you bro................ glad i brought YOU back.......... you doing a fkn great job +3
BRO FIST
And thank you for bringing me back!! Much appreciated, the forums are back with the old school protocol you taught us to uphold- bro fist back at you!!!
Ya, I'm happy to talk with anybody about their addictions in PM but there's definitely an increasing discussion of it in the forums and it's not relevant to what we do here.
You guys make a real valid point here.......... neither am i interested in junkies or their habits either past or present.
Next time this subject crops up i will be deleting complete threads...... it makes eroids look bad especially in purpose made cycle and compound sections like this..... i am a purist and i would like that to rub off on people... stuff like this is not cutting the mustard for me so its not happening.... i am sure you guys will agree with me here so hopefully we have no further need to discuss.
Oh please do, as Flash stated this subject seems to be popping up everywhere on this site. There are other forums I assume for ex addicts that can discuss these things. Here it seems to go against what people are trying to accomplish. This whole I was on narcotics yesterday and on steroids today is frightening.
Just for the record, i didn't bring this topic up in this thred, i was responding to YOUR questions/calling me out, i dont know where you got "heroin" from either, i certainly never said i used heroin
Drop it now.
Post of the day!
No, ive never cycled, anything ever, call me a junkie all you want, im not looking for your approval, it's not relevant, it was never an issue, i wanted to stop and i did. You say your knowledgeable on it and have a friend that works in a clinic, when i said the most i ever used was one pill a day orally should have told you i never really had a problem to begin with (people who legitimately need it use more than that), junkies aren't able to be around family and a live in girlfriend 24/7 without someone noticing there's a problem, i didn't tell that story for a pat on the back, i was being honest and telling the extent of it, i got hurt was prescribed opiate pain reliever, i became p physically addicted for a short time, went to a rehab clinic. Realized its a scam and i was trading one drug for an even stronger one. Once agin you know all about the MSW protocol going down 2-3mg a week surely when u saw i was on 30mg should hav yold you i wasn't there long since thats the MG they start new patients on, i took the shit for about a week and left, real big habbit i got here man im such a loser junkie .....pffft
I said that, not Flash.