musseldawg69's picture
musseldawg69
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Political forum (express yourself)

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Ok so you guys know im all about making America great again, but this forum is for all veiws and open to debate. Education , debunking, and trying to open some eyes is also reccomended. Any topic/discussion related to politics is welcome, you are welcome to take the gloves off but keep it respectful. Show some support, go trump

keep it respectfull fellas. Debating is fine, but keep the insults to a minimum please or I pull it. TT

COMMENTS CLOSED
Pale's picture

We are talking about America, not Zimbabwe. Maybe down in the oil patch there aren't any blacks, so I guess I could forgive your ignorance on this subject. But if you have lived around any major city you would see how brutally true it really is. Now don't get me wrong, some of their wounds are certainly self inflicted but not all, not by a longshot.

For fun, lets take one small sector out of the phone book. Say builders, I challenge you to go down that list in your own book and find a black contractor. Now, think, in your own heart, a black contractor and a white one give you a price on a job, the black is even low bid. Who are you really going to hire? You want to have some more fun, spend a day in a district courtroom. You will see..

I don't have the cure for this, but no mistake it does exist, as real as you and I..

The Impastable's picture

To add to this example, I've worked for three MAJOR companies in my area, all three doing the highest end of work in their field - construction. All owned by immigrants too.

First company - 80 employees, 0 of them AA.
Second company - 134 employees, 1 AA.
Third company - 63 employees, 2 AA.

Of the 3 total employees who were AA, none of them held a managerial role - which were held by an all white roster.

Just trying to illustrate it's not only regarding business owners (which is an economic travesty on its own) but also employment practices within the field as well.

The Impastable's picture

I'm getting drawn into a bottomless pit aren't I...

The Impastable's picture

I always listen, but that kind of approach is exactly why we can bark at each other for the next six years and never get anywhere. You're already predetermined that you're correct and everyone else is wrong, rather than trying to see this from a non-biased point of view.

The Impastable's picture

Believe you me when I say you've been a beneficiary of said privilege

The Impastable's picture

I'm not undermining your struggles. Let's just agree to disagree on institutionalized privilege then. Deal?

Pale's picture

Yep...

Carlos Danger's picture

We need to spend more time educating people on our constitution and founding fathers outline for our system of government. It really is a beautiful thing if we stick to it.

SUMMARY
In the Pledge of Allegiance we all pledge allegiance to our Republic, not to a democracy. "Republic" is the proper description of our government, not "democracy." I invite you to join me in raising public awareness regarding that distinction.
A republic and a democracy are identical in every aspect except one. In a republic the sovereignty is in each individual person. In a democracy the sovereignty is in the group.

Republic. That form of government in which the powers of sovereignty are vested in the people and are exercised by the people, either directly, or through representatives chosen by the people, to whome those powers are specially delegated. [NOTE: The word "people" may be either plural or singular. In a republic the group only has advisory powers; the sovereign individual is free to reject the majority group-think. USA/exception: if 100% of a jury convicts, then the individual loses sovereignty and is subject to group-think as in a democracy.]

Democracy. That form of government in which the sovereign power resides in and is exercised by the whole body of free citizens directly or indirectly through a system of representation, as distinguished from a monarchy, aristocracy, or oligarchy. [NOTE: In a pure democracy, 51% beats 49%. In other words, the minority has no rights. The minority only has those privileges granted by the dictatorship of the majority.]

The distinction between our Republic and a democracy is not an idle one. It has great legal significance.
The Constitution guarantees to every state a Republican form of government (Art. 4, Sec. 4). No state may join the United States unless it is a Republic. Our Republic is one dedicated to "liberty and justice for all." Minority individual rights are the priority. The people have natural rights instead of civil rights. The people are protected by the Bill of Rights from the majority. One vote in a jury can stop all of the majority from depriving any one of the people of his rights; this would not be so if the United States were a democracy. (see People's rights vs Citizens' rights)

In a pure democracy 51 beats 49[%]. In a democracy there is no such thing as a significant minority: there are no minority rights except civil rights (privileges) granted by a condescending majority. Only five of the U.S. Constitution's first ten amendments apply to Citizens of the United States. Simply stated, a democracy is a dictatorship of the majority. Socrates was executed by a democracy: though he harmed no one, the majority found him intolerable.

https://www.1215.org/lawnotes/lawnotes/repvsdem.htm

The Impastable's picture

Or we revise a document written in the 1700s to be compatible with modern society...

pours gasoline into the fire

Carlos Danger's picture

Executive orders have done plenty of bonfire damage to it already. Please tell me what examples of government do you suggest we model?

The Impastable's picture

What exactly is wrong with our "model" of government? What we have is fine, and the inevitable evolution of government... What the issue seems to be is the execution of our government, not the model.

I'm not a political science major, I have an economics degree so my views tend to be skewed towards and economic understanding of politics, so bare my bias in mind. I'm sure we can find common ground on what's wrong with the execution of our government and perhaps even agree on solutions, to some degree. Maybe I misunderstood your point originally, but I don't believe going backwards to a method of governing that was prevalent over 200 years ago is the solution for today's problems when dealing with a global economy.

Carlos Danger's picture

I agree with the first paragraph 100. What I would say is, how many teens or adults for that matter could even tell you the difference between a Republic and a Democracy? Have you tried making sense of these primary votes? Our elected representatives have forsaken their obligation to vote based on the population they represent. How can someone win the primary by 10+% and lose the delegate votes? How we as citizens allow that to happen and be totally ok with it.

How many citizens know what a Convention of States is? Why aren't grade school kids taught this foundational information? My point was that most folks couldn't even tell you what our method of governance is let alone knowing anything about Politics deeper than the superficial. I don't necessarily agree with everything our forefathers did but they sure did give us all of the tools to ammend our Supreme documents.
It's time for a convention of states. It's time for a reigning in of the runaway Federal government's insanity. How is it not an amendment that the federal government is required to balance the budget? How is that allowed to continue year after year. Deeper and deeper in debt. Our kids and grandkids are being enslaved. How these executive orders and federal agencies who write new regulations and enforce them as law in the states without a state vote is absolutely ludicrous. How come the Supreme Court can make a ruling and the states can't vote to overturn that ruling? (For my fellow gun owning brothers out there). Or at the very least create a Super Majority of 7-2 instead of allowing 5-4 votes. All 5-4 votes should be allowed to be challenged by the individual States. If it's a Super Majority ruling of 7-2 then the States must comply. I don't know just seems like that makes too much sense.

The Federal Gov grows and grows and there is no end in sight. Again I'm down for amending our Surpeme Document the Constitution but there is proper channels outlined in Article 5 of the Constitution.

What happened to Article 1 Section 8 in the constitution? Where have the checks and balances for rogue branches of government gone? There is rampant collusion between the branches of government that we have practically zero chance at state sovereignty or even personal pursuit of Liberty. Sorry man I tried to ignore this thread and make gay jokes like we do on Eroids but this topic is mission critical.
This stuff should be common knowledge. I just had this talk with my 16yr old nephew. I want to wring his history teachers neck!!!!!!! The meaningless stuff they focus on in high school drives me nuts.

The Impastable's picture

To summarize a response, I think the big issue in addressing your concerns is the indifference of the citizens, not so much because they don't care (although to some extent this definitely happens) but rather because it is business as usual for our representatives. We are treated as though these issues are too complex for simple understanding, and I'm partially agreeing with it, but not excusing it. I work in the construction industry, and we do this fancy little thing called deferring to experts when it comes to issues beyond our knowledge. I'm not sure I entirely trust our panel of "representatives" when it comes to balancing our budget, considering I'm 100% positive that those without econ/finance degrees outnumber those with.

Which brings me to your point about amending our Constitution. Why not have a floating constitution so to speak, one that is not "set in stone" but continously amended to reflect the times. Our Constitution was written at a time when the US was not a world leader, a major super power, trillions in Debt, and must be amended to reflect the new situation we are in. There should be a convention of states, with representatives of the states there are well as the Federal government, in an open and transparent discussion. (I'm well aware this is a pipe dream). This convention should limit federal authority and reign in their over reaching power, while still allowing them to best serve the interests of the country as a whole. Certain things should not be decided by states, and should be held constant throughout all states in my opinion, but I'm sure some out there would disagree with what those things are. Hint: Americans are Americans, whether you're black white LGBTS or whatever the fuck, we've got bigger issues to worry about than stepping over each other.

I understand the FED over reaching and their growth of power in certain areas, but I don't believe the threat of the FED is as great as people make it out to be, especially with the continued growth of a global economy and how interdependent the globe is becoming.

I usually stay away from these threads as well, and probably will once things get personal and unprofessional...

Carlos Danger's picture

I feel you on all points. I like to question, doubt and question some more. Imperative traits that will lead us to do the right things most of the time.
"Dubito, ergo cogito, ergo sum"
" I doubt, therefore I think, therefore I am"

Pale's picture

At least your points are firmly based in fact instead of the bullshit most hang their hat on. We need more voices like yours.

The Impastable's picture

Agreed.

I mean look at it, Bernie and Trump are winning the popular vote, won't get nominations most likely... Both are going against the status quo so it's now business time in order to stop them. I'm not saying they'll be any good, get anything accomplished, or actually be good for us as a people - but it might just open the door for more candidates, both presidential and representative, from a different strain than the same ol' same ol'... People are tired of going down the same road year after year, this election, whatever the results, may just empower a new breed of candidate.

Pale's picture

They were tired of the status quo eight years ago too.

The Impastable's picture

To be fair, 8 years ago all the candidates were shit... Not much has change, but things are changing ever so slightly, at least I believe they are given what I'm seeing...

All their economic policies are such shit though... End free trade? LOL.

shawn0712's picture

The two party system accomplishes nothing. We spends millions debating when daylight savings time should be. They'll never see eye to eye on anything.
The rupublican party had done a great job playing into interests. None of those interests have much to do with each other, but the object is their money and your allegiance. You're not a Christian if you're not republican. If you're not a republican, you're a pussy liberal. So now it's a symbol of masculinity. And they don't give a fuck about any of you. The Democratic Party has shifted right, and now is a pretty good image of Reagan economics and policies.
The truth is corporations do run everything. We defend it in the name of capitalism. American capitalism is dead though.
All systems rely on a resource. The emperor relied upon the slaves. Communism the worker. Capitalism the consumer. All resources are limited. Capitalism has outgrown its American resource. That's why we now see a shift to a global economy. We are competing with jobs in 3rd world countries, and will continue to do so more and more. Americas wages will fall as those of other countries slightly rise. Eventually the system will consume that resource as well. And a new system will take its place. The new system is already taking place. We just continue to call it capitalism because of our blind allegiance.
Unregulated, the system will continue to consume. Build all the walls you want. Save your jobs from the illegals. Your walls don't stop your jobs from going to them. You're still free to buy an American flag at wal mart mass produced in a sweat shop in China though.

Gh0st's picture

Agreed 100%. I haven't cared long enough to not chime in on topics involving the govt and politics. I avoid these conversations in my every day life because it's simply too frustrating for me. But this sums it up pretty well.

Owes a Review × 1
Carlos Danger's picture

typed deleted typed again. 1000+ words rewritten at least 10 different ways. End result. Blahhhhhh............ If you're democrat you're a homo lover. If you're republican you're a closet homo. Either way you're all fags;) lol

Carlos Danger's picture

I'm so glad Irish bare backed you:)

Honestly though the shit does have to stop
Man. My grandfather came here legit in his early 30's. Raised 7kids working for the railroad. Kept his paperwork legit until his death at 95. I think it's ironic how Mexico hates Guatemalans and Centeal Americans for crossing their borders but doesn't seem to understand how Americans feel the same way. I completely agree with the point but Donald needs to realize this isn't the apprentice.

Carlos Danger's picture

But you two were besties. It was like seeing Prince Charles and Princess Di break up.
Ps I was being literal about the condomless anal sex

Carlos Danger's picture

CTFU!! Your awesome:)

bolt781's picture

Politicians....say what wants to be heard...perfected the art of doing very little through manipulation of the masses who they target...atop whos hardworking backs they ride...to continue doing nothing but recieve praise as if they actually give 2 shits about you or I.

I dont invest in...follow...or give 2 fks about them. Something about being lied to, with a smile, like I (we) are a bunch of assholes doesn't sit right. Haven't you gotten tired of hearing the same bullshit election year after election year!!? It's a fkn job interview...pay them 25k a year and see how many of them want to "fight" for you. Truth is...if you are a have not...your voice is laughable...if you are a have...well hot damn c'mon in lets hear what you have to say as we know it's a crooked scheme to get our fat asses more millions.

Hate this shit...believe in yourselves and your ability to make the best of things in YOUR world. Don't count on some silver tongued stranger to have your back...that....is being naive!

ironcarpenter52's picture

Make America republican again. I hate politics. But dam something has to change. So change and great doesn't mix well. Fuck it. You will never get ahead working for some else. So forget the change and make yourself great. The way I look at it is. Some people are so worried about the the next I mean while some of still make that money. Early bird gets the worm but the last rat gets the cheese. Trump has money to.push his campaign. Doesn't mean he will win. Just need someone kindda like him but never been in the so called spotlight.

Pale's picture

We all would rather see everyone working but the poor and indigent are not our problem. Our foreign aid and purely wasteful military industrial complex is. But they like keep you simpletons focused on kicking the poor instead of the big money. Now back to your trough cattle...

Pale's picture

Obviously people believe in him and they keep electing him. What have you done again?

The Impastable's picture

Nah, it's definitely the poor! It's not like there are economics definitively disproving the whole "eat the poor" spiel, but you know, it involving math and science, MUST BE A HOAX

tonytulo's picture

I'm against career politicians and Congress not having term limits. Republican Democrat all the same in my eyes. The system is corrupt and is being abused, it was not built to employ people with full time jobs with pensions when they retire. There are generals and military who have done great things that don't make a fraction of the money some of those fat pieces of shit do.

Pale's picture

How do you figure the price of oil crashing is Obamas fault?

And if you are still waiting for Reagans Trickle down theory to work you are being foolish. Was 30 plus years not enough for you? Lol

Pale's picture

You may not be dumb but you are naive.

The Oil and gas sector has taken a hit but that hit was brought on in large part because they went apeshit drilling oil anywhere they could find it while oil was 100 per barrel. Well we ended up flooding the market and the bubble burst (like they always do) now it will likely be ten years or so and it will happen all over again. Them same corporations you are crying for did this to themselves. Never stake your future on a bubble bro.

But most other sectors are vastly improved over the last 7 years. And our economy is showing it.

Pale's picture

It isn't just my personal experience look at all the financial indicators. The numbers tell the story. But yes, my business has improved a great deal since the dog days of the recession