posted Thu, 08/30/2012 - 15:45
5131
NO MORE POLICE FORCE IN CAMDEN NJ.
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OK, I need some entertainment, so I thought I'd throw out an inflammatory and controversial subject for you guys to fight over. This way, I can watch the fights, and then ban people for fighting. Fuck!!....double pleasure.
Anyway, the city of Camden NJ has laid off it's entire police force because it doesn't have the money to pay them. So they are replacing them with non-union cops brought in from the county.
So....what say you all about unions?
I have my opinions, but I'd rather see you guys beat each other up.
Here is the story link:
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/30/13504614-one-of-most-dangerou...
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Camden is a stone throw away from me! If any city in the country needs cops, it's Camden! Although Camden blames all its violence and drug traffic on Philadelphia.
to be fair, Philly does bring down the relatively nice state of PA.
I can't argue with that! No different than any other big city. Scum! But Camden does terribly all by itself
tread-mPOP A CAP IN THERE ASS NITTI, NO SENSE IN THAT SORT OF BLAME SHIT!!!! LOOOL
Hopefully I never have to! You'd think I was waiting for the zombie armageddon if you saw my man cave! Lol. These young punks out here are fuckin bat shit crazy with the guns man
Well Goth i see ur still at it. I still scroll around to see what u post every now and again.
tread-mYOU COULD PUT Rush and Stern in the same room with mics and theres no way they could start as much shit as Goth! I love this Nooka!
If only people would take the time to read a couple of Ayn Rand books we wouldn't be tits deep in all this horse shit right now.
CleyonAmen, I first read Atlas Shrugged in high school, and re-read it about 2006... Scared the crap out of me! Especially listening to the rhetoric Obama and crew use... It's almost exactly the same tone as Cuffy Megs.
Please bear with me, as I'm not much of a reader of fictional novels. is this the same 'ATLAS SHRUGGED' that the potential V.P. Paul Ryan requires his interns to read? The only Ayn Rand I know of is her influence on the Canadian rock group RUSH's 1976 concept album '2112'. A society that was ruled by priests... Who have outlawed anything individualistic or creative. Arguably the greatest concept album EVER written!
Cleyon...I know you're a fan of 'the Professor'....any insight?
CleyonGet ready for a long one brother!
We've taken care of everything
The words you hear, the songs you sing
The pictures that give pleasure to your eyes
It's one for all, all for one
We work together, common sons
Never need to wonder how or why
This is the opening verse to The Temples of Syrinx. The part that is important here, is the next to last line. we work together, common sons Is an obvious reference to the Socialist philosophy of no man being better than another, and there for the work of one man is not worth more than the work of another.
Ayn Rand was born in Russia, lived under these types of conditions, and when she saw what America had to offer she became a staunch anti-communism activist.
Her philosophy (Objectivism), it's pretty simple really. As she put it, "My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute."
She was an atheist, and her view of religion can be seen in her writings. However I will note, that her biggest problem with religion tends to be that in her books the religious leaders are helping the government consume the work of the people. Where in reality (aside from the Catholic and Angelica churches whose senior clergy tend to be pretty liberal) most organized religions in the USA tend to be on the right side of the political spectrum or non-political entities.
Neal has said that, "For me, [Rand's writing] was an affirmation that it’s alright to totally believe in something and live for it and not compromise. It was a simple as that. On that 2112 album, again I was in my early 20s. I was a kid. Now I call myself a bleeding heart libertarian. Because I do believe in the principles of Libertarianism as an ideal – because I’m an idealist. Paul Theroux’s definition of a cynic is a disappointed idealist. So as you go through past your 20s, your idealism is going to be disappointed many many times. And so, I’ve brought my view and also – I’ve just realized this – Libertarianism as I understood it was very good and pure and we’re all going to be successful and generous to the less fortunate and it was, to me, not dark or cynical. But then I soon saw, of course, the way that it gets twisted by the flaws of humanity. And that’s when I evolve now into … a bleeding heart Libertarian. That’ll do."
So there you have it, he's a Libertarian... which is pretty much a softened version of her very domineering personal philosophy.
Atlas Shrugged is easily one of my all time favorites. I've recently re-read it too and your right it will scare the crap out of you reading it during these times.
Back when she wrote that book it was obviously meant to be an over-the-top fictional exaggeration in order to get her point/philosophy across... But these days it reads like it was purposefully written to tell the story of the current state of our country/society.
Serious BS is the new York news. 9 folks shot.....by the elite cop force' stray bullets!! A slingshot is more efficient!
If citizens could get trained on their own dime and carry cwp...the bullscheiße would stop. Youngster wannabees who won't fistfight but draw a gun would be equalized. An armed society is a polite society. If you're in store..its being robbed..save lives and not worry because you were protecting yourself
With less laws and regulations, the better it would be.
yeah that would be awesome! Employers could pay you $1 per hour or not at all and no one would do shit about it. Alot of people hate unions (mostly because they are misinformed.some are crap but not all) But without them you would not have rrights in the workplace and would most likely be paid shit wages and benifits at most jobs,Also probably work 100 hours a week and no overtime.
IM NOT A UNION MEMBER......ANYMORE
CleyonI despise unions, not all, but most. You're statement above is one of the reasons. This is pure union propaganda that has no basis in fact. Did collective bargaining change the landscape in labor relations? Yes, but over the past 100 years unions have done more harm than good. When a Union sees it as it's job to squeeze the company out of any profits it can that's a bad thing.
The facts are that if unions disappeared from the US today, labor relations would improve in most areas. Companies have figured out that the best way to get and retain the best employees is through competitive pay and benefits, along with a good work environment. The worst work environments I've been in are union. They don't care about doing a good job, they just care about doing the bare minimum. Is that a generalization? Sure, but it's accurate 60-70% of the time. If you've ever worked in a union environment, tell me how many times you've heard these words "That's not my job" It happens constantly. It's almost a mantra, I expect to hear it chanted at union meetings.
When a workforce is so selfish that they don't care about making the company they work for better, then they are destined to fail. Unions instil that selfishness, and bread animosity toward the company. Which in my experience is good for nobody.
what companys have figured out that the best way to get and retain the best employees is through competitive pay and benefits? If anything most companys lately have been firing people and cutting wages. I know they say its because the economy but that to me is what makes the economy bad.(companys using it as an excuse to cut pay and fire people just keeps making it worse) I understand that some companys are having real problems. I think that has just trickled down from the larger companys being greedy.
I guess on the other side this is the anti-union propaganda that I always hear.
like i said in the post im not union any more. The union I was in was a trade union and if you dont produce you are gone. I worked in it for about 5 years.The Way the UAW is has made people think all unions are the same. I dont think its selfish at all to wanna be paid enough to live on. I dont know how valid this is but i have heard multiple times that Union jobs help raise wages of even non-union jobs because of competition.I dont know much about that part of it though.
What harm have the unions done over the past 100years? I thin its a case of looking for someone to blame for the economy thing. just like its bushes fault or obamas or whoever else.
Unions do have alot of parts that I hated too.It did seem like the union reps just cared about getting you to pay your dues and didnt do to much if there was problems.
One argument I always hear is that they are selfish and want the workers to be paid too much. Its mostly business owners or people with money that dont like unions.Seems just like the union greed to me.How are people suppost to buy houses ,cars ect that these companys sell making crap wages?
CleyonInteresting that you mention tradesman unions, as they are the ones that I think do the best job. Since most iron workers, painters, ect. are small shops it makes a lot of sense to collectively set prices. However the only reason they get hired over a non union shop is because the company/person doing the hiring knows that there is a better likelyhood of them doing a good job.
Companies are about making profits, that's their job. Look at Home Depot, a non-union company (started out that way) that instead of treating employees like hired help they made everyone they hired an owner. This is the new business world, if the unions would allow it to be so. Of course the unions couldn't have that and put out propoganda about Home Depot was trying to get away with paying their employees peanuts, by giving them useless stocks.
Well it worked, under preasure Home Depot made that optional, allowing amployees to take a smaller hourly rate in exchange for stocks. Guess which employees have done better of the past thurty yearss? Home Depot was trying to help it's workers to realize the American dream, the unions are who screwed that up.
As far as unions being selfish and wanting to charge too much, on the money! However it's not about money, fighting for a better wage is one thing, but the rediculous health care benefits, retirement plans, and pensions. THOSE are what have destroyed the ecconomic solvency of companies. It's easy to adjust the salary of your employees to changing times. I had to take a 30% pay reduction last year, and did so becuase the other option was literaly having my employer go under and being out of a job. Does it suck? Sure, would it be worse to be unemployed in this economic climate? Undoubtedly.
I dont know why I care so much when I hear bad things about Unions since im not even union myself. I guess I just feel strongly that there is alot of greedy companys that only care about paying the top people millions while the people who make the company work are the employees. like I said earlier ,who is gonna buy all the expensive cars and houses when you are making $8 hr? .......I know that higher wages also cause things to cost more so I guess there is no way to win.
Far as unions go the only ones I know about are trades unions. If you are a trades union worker you are highly trained. You dont have a choice if you are to work in one.
so you taking a %30 pay cut stopped your employer from going under? That makes sense if it is a big company and lots of workers did the same. If it was just you I call shenanigans
Where I work they have been using the economy as an excuse for about 6 years now.
Its crap because the business was and is not affected by the economy.
It is a huge Office Rental building. Most of the tenants are in the medical field.
I say its not affected because the rent does not change and they get the money every month no matter what. They have been adding new tenants every year as well.
CleyonI don't know either, I don't care about the things that don't affect my life, unfortunately unions do. The company I work for employes 10,000+ people. We have very light management overhead, but somewhat heavy IT (due to government regulations I might add). The largest part of our company are power workers.
The original plan was a 5% cut across the board. The unions threw a fit. So they went to a 3%/10% split, the unions rejected this too. Remember there was no reduction in benefits, or pensions. Well what ended up happening is that the unions took NO HIT at all, and the rest of the company (12%) got hit really hard. Our CEO hasn't taken a paycheck in three years, and our board of directors have loaned the company money.
The facts are, that we could fire 50% of the union workers tomorrow, and replace them almost immediately. They are in jobs that require a strong back to do. However for someone like me who has taken 15yrs of my life to learn what I now know, and worked continuously throughout my career to improve it takes a lot longer.
As to property management businesses and the economy, I'm tempted to ask what your position is, because I can think of multiple factors that would kill your hypothesis.
I work in maintenance in the building . The economy may affect most other businesses but where i am at it does not. it has grown every year even after the crash.
I know brought it up first but there is no point in us debating really.We are not gonna change each others mind .
Hows the documentary coming?
I wasn't really referring to LABOR laws and regulations...more like criminal and civil laws, of which there is an excess and far over-reaching into our personal freedoms...things this country was founded on and now going the complete opposite path into complete control of everything related to our daily existence.
NOW...as for unions, I don't have a problem with them. I would rather get paid accordingly and NOT work 100 hours/wk. You're absolutely right about our rights in the workplace...one thing that NEEDS to be there, BUT we the people can govern that ourselves and NOT the almighty head dix that think they are in charge. I wish more people would realize and take advantage of how much power WE hold collectively, as opposed to the present-day juggernaut of a government itself.
I agree. I didn't mean to single you out. I just kept typing what my thoughts were at the time.
I saw the response and was like...WTF?...LOL. I was thinking, ya know I was referring to unions, but now I will explain more of what I was getting at...I just wasn't feeling it last night and just typed a quick response, HAHA. FR sent.
Where i Live, if you shoot a robber in your home and he lives. He sues you and he will win your house. Thats extremely wrong
tread-mIf you let him live you deserve to be sued! Lol...step up in my crib fool !
CleyonBreak that fool! I never shoot to wound, and I never believe that one round will stop the threat.
It's complete bullshit. I you shoot and kill someone defending yourself the courts and gov will do everything in their power to turn it around on you and make you the bad guy. If someone breaks in my house I'm shooting to kill! As far as I know in my state if someone breaks you have the right to kill them in your house. Also all it takes to open fire is to feel threatened. But the term "threaten" is very ambiguous so chances the local government will try and twist it. Anymore in this country you can't legally defend yourself. These hardcore liberal say call the police, all they are good for is to clean up the mess after the fact.
My state you DO have the right to kill if they're IN your home. If they LIVE.....you're fucked! My homie lost his house tjis exact route.
That is fucked up...sad state of affairs the times we are living in, and it's not gonna get any better.
Hmmm... Sounds like California where I live
Hella.
Lets face it people we are in a swirling toilet of shit. Economics is just one part of the issue leading us to the "Thunder Dome".Lol! Broken families=broken communities =fucked up society. America shouldn' have any cities or towns that remind me of southern Afghanistan in any way! Wth
Absotively, posolutely, correct. Even if you fixed the economy with the wave of a magic wand, we're still fucked. We'd just break it again.
Every time I visit theync.com I get depressed. The shit that man is capable of doing to man boggles my mind.
Hell I have the "what the fuck" face just by looking at the first 5 mins of the news!
56tooNo comment. I dont want to get banned LOL
THAT'S IT MOTHER FUCKER......YOU'RE OUTA HERE!!!
(well......I had to do something. Nobody's breaking the rules. I'm bored)
56toogod damn it I knew you'd find a reason!
LOL...I thought you really did ban his ass for that.
Non-union companies dont do work for lees money. The rate that they charge is based off union scales. The union workers just get better benifeits and better pay than most non-union workers. The non-union company owner puts that money in his pocket instead of giving it to the employees.
CleyonBbbbbbbbrttt! Wrong answer! Union companies charge between 20 and 50% more than non-union companies. By the man hour? No, but they force you to have a lot more men sucking up hours than a non-union company does. Face it GM vould be profitable now if they had gone the normal bankruptcy rout and been able to renegotiate their union contracts (or scrap the union all together like Toyata has here in Texas) instead they are on the verge of another bankruptcy less than 4yrs later.
Unions aren't the downfall of anything. Its the upper echelon of a business(CEO's,VP's, board members..etc), raping the hell out of the capital cow. Throw in inflated/bloated bonuses while constantly downsizing /outsourcing their workforce to further their bonuses. Like I said thise numb nuts upstairs have been gourging themselves on the cow, now they bitch cry and moan when there isnt any meat left. Think about it...how many times have you seen a large corp lay off thousands, but still pay their higher ups ridiculous salaries and bonuses. Everyone wants to be conservative, as long as it doesn't involve capital gain.FREE FOR ALL!! So I'm all for the group that protects its own within the business infrastructure. This is evident not only in corporate America but city govt, state govt, fed govt, small business.
No denying that doc......there's plenty of blame to go around.
We live in a society where most people seem to have that "I'm gonna get mine" mentality.
If unions were not in this country everyone would be making third world wages. In the
early 1900's the US workforce was primarly union.Over the years corporate greed and politicians took over.
I work for a fire dept in a major metropolitan city. If it wasn't for our union we would not have gotten a raise last year. My dept is going on 10 yrs without raises before 2011. Absolutely nothing cost the same as it did 10 yrs ago. So what are we to do....fight. But if I pro rated my firefighting, hazmat, extrication and paramedic skills to what I am paid, it would be unethical
CleyonMy company is suffering due to the regulation burdens, and I got to take a 30% pay cut last year. Why should government employees be exempted from having to face the same burdens the private sector faces? Public employee unions are thee most corrupt thing in this country... Nothing else even comes close,
.
I think unions had their place back in the day but now they've grown fat and greedy and are part of the reason many cities are on the brink of bankruptcy today as well as causing manufacturing companies to move overseas where labor is cheaper. Just my opinion and really what the fuck do I know?