posted Sun, 05/14/2023 - 07:01
1686
+ 1 Hello to all
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I've been training naturally for about three years. I've come to a natural plateau, tried all the usual suggested ways of conquering your plateau like mixing things up in the gym to shock your muscles into new growth. This has worked several times in the past but I now believe I've achieved everything that I can naturally so I'm ready to do a cycle. I've still got some research to do regarding the use of steroids and that's what I'm here for.
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Okay, I've been shedding fat and I don't beleive I've lost muscle. I did a keto diet for 4 weeks then introduced complex carbs to aid with my lifting and strength. I'm now 12% bf and it's good to be able to see my abs. I'd like to take the next step now and try a first cycle. Any advice would be grately appreciated.
Looks like you’ve built a decent base at your height and 180lbs. In an ideal world, I’d drop that BF a bit first, but you can get in line pretty quickly at your age, (it’s get harder to lose for us oldies…..).
No need for anything complicated in my eyes. Simple test cycle. AI available and a solid PCT and you should be good to get going. Lots of good reading material about both subjects here.
Good luck fella.
Thanks, I'll get my bf down before starting a cycle. That's exactly what I aim to do, Test C @ 500mg per week for 10 to 12 weeks. I'll have an AI on hand and do a nolva or clomid PCT, maybe both depending on what I learn in my research. In your opinion, is it necessary to run HCG during my cycle? There's a lot of conflicting views out there and I'd like to get advice from some of the more experienced members.
In my opinion not necessary. Certainly isn’t going to do you any harm, but in your position I would be inclined to leave out the hcg. You’ll want both Nolva and clomid for pct for your fastest and tidiest recovery, but obviously read up about it in your own time. If you need any help, feel free to drop me a line.
I definitely agree with that. As they say it’s 80% diet 20% work. I know it’s about to be summertime and who doesn’t want to blow up for the beach season!? But I know well enough how it is when you get something in your head. So, here’s my .02 on it-
First cycle ever, I think you stick to the tried and true cycles. Don’t go crazy. Your first cycle is going to give you great results even at much lower doses. Here are 2 cycles I personally would choose from for a first cycle - again just my experience
Test & Deca cycle:
- Test C 500mg/week
- Deca 300mg/week
- HCG 500iu/week (some people do it 2x a week)
And I usually run my weeks as 6days rather than 7 (just my preference I feel the 7th day I usually can feel that serum levels are low)
Ok here’s my logic to the cycle then I’ll get into length of cycle and PCT
Test C, or you can run test E, or both that’s on you. I personally like test C better, but test E has a longer acting ester so doing half/half is good to (I can explain more about that if you want) - anyway Test is the foundation of any cycle, it’s tried and true. And it makes you feel great (but warn your girl she’s definitely gonna notice the crazy hard ons and high sex drive).
Deca is a tried and true anabolic, you’ll get nice gains without a lot of water weight. Hard body gains, without lots of sides like people get with Tren for instance. Personally I think Tren is great but not for beginners. Make sure you run test with the Deca at all times, some people do get “Deca dick” but in my experience if you’re running test and not running crazy doses of Deca. 300mg a week is plenty
HCG - some people don’t do this, but I like my balls, and I like being a father. So I use it as a preventative measure. I find that when I run low dose HCG throughout my cycle I bounce back really quickly after the cycle, PCT is a breeze. And your balls don’t shrivel up as much, which I can’t stand… when I don’t I end up with a practically empty ball bag! Lol even tho my dick is on swoll, an empty but sack isn’t cute… try getting your girl to suck on them baby nuts hahah no but seriously, you want to run it, it helps you bounce back big time. I have kids and I’ve been doing this a long time.
PCT again keep it simple, tried and true
HCG - 1500iu EOD (20 days)
Clomid - 100mg ED 15 days
Clomid - 50mg ED 15 days
But most importantly, eat clean!!! No processed food, no refined sugars! Clean carbs, clean proteins, and healthy fats! Eat lots of smaller meals throughout the day not just 3 big meals. You process it better, plus you avoid getting bloated.
I know it sounds like a lot to remember, but it’s honestly not hard. Once you do it, you’ll tweak this a bit I’m sure, and find your sweet spot.
Alternative cycle
Test C or E - 500mg/week
Winny - 25-50mgs/day
HCG - 500iu/week or twice weekly
Same PCT either way.
I’d do 8-10 week cycle your first time out. 12wks is the max!
During PCT keep your same diet!! Don’t let the lowered appetite starve your gains. And workout! Don’t get lazy! Don’t shy away from the gym out of fear of people seeing you lose weight!!
Stay safe, work hard, eat right!
Thank you that's very helpful. After doing a fair bit of reading I'm thinking about a Test C only cycle just because it is my first and I'd like to see what Test does without anything else. If all goes well with the first cycle, after my off period, I will add the Deca at your recommended dose and see what that brings to the table. I will use your HCH protocol and may use your PCT protocol. One question, I was thinking of doing a Tamoxifen PCT but only because that way I would have Tamoxifen on hand in case of any gyno issues. I know I could get both Clomid and Tamoxifen but I have a limited budget so figured if I don't need the Tamox for gyno, I'll be able to use if for PCT. What are your thoughts on that?
Either way I'll try and lose some bodyfat whilst maintaining muscle and strength as ONESICK suggests, before starting a cycle. I've done some reading on nutrition and will cut carbs and fats a bit and increase my protein to lose some BF. Once I start the cycle I'm thinking to up them again with good carbs and fats so as to get the most out of the Test. I don't want to hinder what the Test can do by restricting carbs and fats as my aim is to build strength and muscle without worrying too much about BF. I'll continue to do this with my second cycle adding the Deca, then after the appropriate time off run a cutting cycle and shed as much of that BF whilst trying to maintain the muscle mass that I've built. I know that is looking way into the future but I like to plan ahead.
Test only works, but I will say you won’t put on nearly as much test only. I’ve done it when I was younger, or to drag out a cycle I’ve dropped to only test (no recommended to drag out cycles…. But most people do… the vanity gets us! Nobody wants to shrink lol)
As far as Nolvadex (tamoxifen), I personally don’t like it. I know it’s tried and true, people swear by it. I also rarely get gyno, if it was a bigger issue for me I’m sure I would use it. BUT in general I get sides from it personally. I get bad headaches and sometimes I get nauseous. Also I’m not sure how true it is, but I’ve read studies saying that it can actually cause fertility issues for men. But so does any gear lol. But ya absolutely if you want to have it on hand in case of gyno that’s a good idea. I’m sure there’s lots of guys on here that will swear by it.
If you don’t want to add Deca, you can also start off with an oral like dbols for like 4-6 weeks. The good thing about doing that at least for the first half of the cycle is you jumpstart your gains. Test takes about 3wks to really kick in. Orals like dbols (var, anadrol etc ) kick in much faster. So it gives you a boost in the first half of the cycle, then drop to just test and you’ll see some nice gains. For sure!
Be safe out there, use a reputable source too! There’s a few good ones out there, I personally use RB, I trust them, pricing is good, they take care of their customers, have deals and promos all the time…. Again just my opinion, I’m sure other sources are like that, I just can’t say so first hand.
Thanks for the input, it's very helpful to me. I didn't realise Nolvadex could give you sides like that. Definitely more reading to do for me. I like the idea of a Dbol kickstart too but I want to know when the Dbol stops and the Test kicks in so I'll probably save that for my second cycle. I'm also getting conflicting info on the Deca so will research that more and also need to research NPP as ONESICK suggests I use instead. My understanding so far is that NPP is a short ester so will need ed or eod pinning and never having pinned before, that worries me.
I'm really grateful for the comments I've had so far. I can see I've come to the right place to learn. Thanks to everyone that has welcomed me and contributed to my intro.
Welcome,
Cut the BF% down first. You will only hinder your gains and be more prone to sides if you hop on gear. Like below read up, I doubt you've plateaud. Getting enough food is what makes you grow with training on point.
I'm hovering around 20% bodyfat and didn't really want to lose more whilst trying to increase my strength and muscle mass. I can still see a vague outline of my abs if I flex. Wouldn't losing more bodyfat whilst trying to increase strength and muscle mass be counter productive?
You can maintain your muscle mass and gain strength while losing BF. You just can't eat like shit and make sure you get an adequate amount of protein in. Though it's kind of a waste to try and lose weight and gain at the same time. Generally pick one or the other. But if you really want to hop on gear you want to get lower BF. If you aren't careful and don't get your diet on point gear will make you fat too. Your blood pressure will go up, lipids fucked up, cholesterol, etcetera. Higher estrogen conversion. More prone to getting gyno. Just all the nasty stuff you don't want. You don't want to fall in the trap of loading yourself with AIs to counteract sides. Being lower BF you'll get much better results.
Thank you. I'll attempt to lose some BF as you suggest before jumping on my first cycle. I've responded to MrWhatsPoppin's cycle advice. What do you think?
Definitely stick with a Test only cycle. That way if something is to go wrong, you know exactly where it came from. You'll get an understanding of what Test feels like and what it can do. Your first few cycles should be Test only IMO. Deca, eh....stay away from it for a bit. If you really want to add a compound later on several cycles down. I'd opt for NPP over Deca. We can discuss that later. Right now just focus on getting everything right before a Test cycle. Get your bloodwork done pre cycle. Plan on mid cycle bloods and post cycle bloods. As far as PCT goes, make sure you have this on hand before you start. Both Clomid and Nolva, they go hand in hand. Get an AI as well just in case something were to happen mid cycle. I understand money may be an issue but when it comes to your health, do not skimp on the AI and PCT and the bloodwork. I'm not an expert on HCG as I've never used it lol. I also don't plan on anymore kids and give zero fucks about my balls. There are far better experts than me on this subject. Rusty has some good info, he may come off like a dick but he means well. Makwa also has a plethora of knowledge as well as several others. Do a lot of research, best of luck.
Agreed, a lot of great points. Definitely have the PCT on hand - and definitely get bloodwork done.
You make a good point, a test only cycle will eliminate any mysteries on what’s causing a side. Plus test is a pretty safe bet,
I only started with the HCG maybe 8-10yrs ago. And I swear by it now. Running it during a cycle and then larger doses during PCT has made my PCT go so much smoother I feel like I bounce back much quicker, and I don’t lose as much of my gains
Lmao @ giving zero fucks about your balls. I'm planning on having more kids so I'll do some more research.
Thanks for your take. It's very helpful. I'll also have to research AI's like Arimadex but I was hoping to cover any gyno issues with Nolva. After doing a bit of research I've now realised that they work completely differently. I've got to admit I'm a little confused but I will keep reading and get there. I didn't realise that I had to keep estrogen in the "sweet spot". Obviously I understand there is an acceptable range but I was going to rely on itchy or painful nipples to tell me that. I'm from the UK and you can't just go to the NHS and ask for bloodwork because you want to experiment with steroids and then also ask for mid cycle bloods and post cycle bloods lol. If there is anyone knowledgeable about UK services that can do bloodwork at a reasonable price, hit me up but remember we're in a cost of living crisis here.
No problem man. Also look into Aromasin, some prefer it over Adex. If you do get gyno, raloxifene is something to look at as well over nolva. Just a couple things to consider as well. Yes there needs to be a good balance of test and estrogen levels for everything to work. Which is why you need bloodowrk. Getting progesterone levels in check as well. Really it doesn't have to be too complicated but there are a lot of things to consider. One little thing can fuck up a cycle. Which is why we suggest having a lower BF% to reduce the chances of bad sides. I don't know much about the Uk, so I wont be much of any help there. I'm sure there are others who can point you in the right direction.
RustyhookerLast Seen: 05/14/23
Since: 1 Hour 6 Min
Born: 14/05/90
Weight: 180lb
Height: 5ft 6"
Body Fat: 20%
Click on @Makwa and check his food forums. Thats your next hurdle sir. Welcome to eroids
I've had a good look over Makwa's profile and I can't find any food forums. Could you hit me with a link direct to them please. I'm going to try to lose some BF whilst maintaining muscle mass and strength. I've read quite a bit on nutrition and know the theory but would like to see if there is anything relevant in Makwa's food forums.
Thank you. I'll head over there now.
First cycle went great. I lost 8lb of bodyfat before starting a test only cycle. Went down to 170lb then did a 12 week test only cycle plus PCT. Obviously I increased my calory intake with clean food (not junk) and by the end of the cycle I'd increased weight to 190lb and stayed pretty lean. So my next question is, on my next cycle what do people think I should do. I'm thinking either go for a big bulk without caring about bodyfat too much and put on as much muscle as possible and for that I'm thinking add dbol and Deca to the test and increase calories even more, or go for a lean bulk with tren and Anavar added to the test, increase calories but keep everything real clean with less fats and carbs so maybe 60/20/20. I obviously won't be starting it until I've had enough time off which will be in a month or two but want to get opinions and early so I can get into the right frame of mind for a big bulk or a lean bulk. If I go for a big bulk the cycle after that I'm thinking a proper cutting cycle dropping as much bodyfat as possible with maintaining as much muscle as possible.
Any opinions and help would be greatly appreciated.