posted Wed, 01/10/2024 - 11:57
1762
2nd Cycle after Successful Test only Cycle
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I had great success with my first cycle which was Test only for 12 weeks. I'm now looking to add more compounds and want to put on more size. I'm thinking of adding Deca and Dbol to bulk up quite a bit. My third cycle will probably be a cutting cycle but for now I'd like to hear what everyone thinks of this as my 2nd cycle:
Week 1 to 12 Test Cyp 600mg per week
Week 1 to 12 Deca 600mg per week ( would've gone slightly lower at 500mg per week but it comes as 300mg/ml so easy just to keep it simple)
Week 1 to 6 40mg to 50mg per day of Dbol
Adex 0.5mg eod ( I know I'm gyno prone from my first cycle)
Nolva and Clomid PCT 2 weeks after last shot.
Any views on this or advice would be greatly appreciated.
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After much debate and taking on board everyone's views I decided on a 12 week Proviron, Test Cyp, Tbol cycles. Test Cyp 500mg per week for 12 weeks, Proviron 25 mg daily for the first 6 weeks, Tbol 40mg daily for the last 6 weeks.
Quick update. Right now I'm at week 4 and can definitely tell the difference between test only and Proviron and Test. Libido was high on just Test but add the Proviron in and I'm finding it hard to keep down lol. More to the point I'm stronger than I have ever been and getting PB's every session. Right now I can't wait to get into the gym every day whereas before my first cycle, it was becoming a chore. I haven't weighed myself as I want to do that at the end of the cycle and again after PCT.
Dragonforce70The deca will still be active after 2 weeks from last shot. Might want to look into tailoring tail end cycles with short esters for the proper hormone clearance date to start Oct properly.
I was under the impression that starting PCT 2 weeks after the last shot was sufficient. I'm not keen on shooting short esters eod just to take me up to my PCT. Is this something others would advise? I'm not too sure of protocol but I would have thought that letting the exogenous test taper off gradually before starting PCT would be more beneficial than going from high Test levels straight to PCT because your endogenous test is never going to match the exogenous test anyway, so you're more likely to feel the sharp drop in test levels if you go from hero to zero so to speak.
I'm obviously a noob so would like other opinions on this. I'm happy to be put right and learn.
Another reason I advise against running Deca without many cycles under your belt. It is very hard to recover from. Deca has a very hard shutdown. That ester stays around forever. Min of 21 days before starting PCT. 24 days is optimum to ensure enough ester has cleared to make PCT worthwhile. It has been shown that just 100mg of deca will suppress natty test production for 30 days. That is a long cycle and a long wait to start PCT and the longer your HPTA is shutdown the harder and riskier it is for it to recover. TRT patient, not a big deal. Someone wanting to successfully recover HPTA it is a high concern. To many start PCT way to early with Deca. Basically they only run a 2wk PCT because the first two weeks were wasted since the deca level was still to elevated causing suppression of the HPTA. Compound this on the fact that many decrease the SERMS those final 2 two wks and the PCT is destined to fail. This is not a beginner compound for many reasons.
Honestly if your using deca, especially at that dose, you want to wait more than 2 weeks post pin before starting pct. See that's where guys mess up because the Decanoate ester is still hanging around at sufficient levels releasing nandrolone. Minimum in my opinion would be 3 weeks before pct, hell in my case I'd wait a month after last pin if I ran deca, which I don't run. I maybe a bit too conservative though but that's just my thought. I've heard so many different things about the half life of the Decanoate ester. If it has a 12 day half life like some say, it could be awhile. Not sure what true half life is though. At the end of the day this hormone is more suppressive than testosterone so you want to have it cleared to ease pct transition. In your case, if this is your second cycle you shouldn't run this compound.
Your approach (IMO) is better. Act like you're still on cycle for the two weeks after your last pin.
Get bloodwork or use a steroid plotter to gage where you might be at. Taking higher doses takes longer to get to "Normal". You could probably wait even longer; just before your levels slip below normal.
Thanks to everyone for their input and advice. I've decided to drop the Deca completely and just run a very light Dbol kickstart for the first 4 weeks at 20mg per day split. I will then take Proviron to compliment the Test from week 4 to 12. All I have to do is decide whether to use Adex or Tamoxifen to ward off gyno. Apparently Tamox will allow the estrogen to do it's work without causing gyno but will decrease IGF-1 levels and Adex will reduce estrogen so limit what Dbol should do. Decisions, decisons, what to do? I would also like some advice on what dose to run the Proviron at between weeks 4 to 12. PCT 2 weeks after last shot as not using Deca.
IMO solid decision. Much better for a beginner.
Just read that Jockstrap recommends 25mg Proviron per day, so unless anyone has any other input I'm going to go with that.
Bad planning a huge stack for second. Repeat a first test only with prop kicker. Dial in your estrogen and foods
DobermannRusty?
Lol
This is probably the only damn thing you and I will ever agree on lol, but +1
I'm getting the gist of things. Is there anything you have against a Dbol Kicker against a prop kicker? I'm keen to see what other compounds do.
I like low dosed dbol but you need to pay attention to estrogen. Proviron from week four til pct is a nice free test/libido booster. Less pinning with an oral. Just research, blood test and be prepared. Its really the gym and foods as sterouds simply speed recovery.
Thanks for the advice. How about low dose Dbol week 1 to 4 and proviron week 4 to 12? What proviron dose do you recommend?
Below i saw you battled estrogen. Proviron 25mg and dial that estrogen to a good level. Research sbgh and free test.
Ah just saw this. Thanks, will go with 25mg Priviron week 4 to 12. Will research sbgh if that comes up in google and of course free test. So much to learn lol.
I would drop the long Ester deca for npp if you are dead set on going that direction. But I would wait awhile like Makwa implied
I'm not dead set on going in that direction. Just wanted ideas really and wanted to try and add something to the Test to see what that brings to the table. I'm open hear any suggestions. Somone else recommended NPP but I don't like the idea of eod shots at this stage. I want to keep things simple. What's the advantage of NPP over Deca apart from less bloat. I'm not too worried about water retention at this stage especially if I'm trying to bulk. I don't even knnow if I'm prone to water retention yet so am keen to see what does and doesn't work for me.
2nd verse same as the first. If it ain't broke don't fix it. I could go on and on.
Here is another one, it is a marathon not a sprint.
Great success with the first so why not repeat? 2nd cycle and looking to do 600mg of deca. come on man you should know better than that. Gyno prone and hitting 50mg of dbol for 6 wks. You should know better than that too. How about some good test e for 12wks with a 1K cals above your TDEE for bulking.
Maybe I'm an eager beaver and want to see what other compounds do lol. You're probably right in terms of being sensible but I'm only human and was so impressed with the Test only cycle that I wanted to add some other compounds to see what they brought to the table. What do you think about dropping the Dbol completely and adding 400mg of Deca per week. I only said 600mg per week because the vials are 300mg/ml and I like simplicity then I know it's just 2 ml of each compound but I guess that's being silly. I can work out how much to draw if I want 400mg.
I think I know what you're going to say lol.
Actually I've just read Catalyst's post on his promo thread. What are your thoughts on adding a Dbol kickstart just so I can see what that adds. I'll up the Adex to 1mg per day from the get go.
I do realise your initial advice is the best and most sensible way to go but I'm hoping you understand the little kid inside of me wanting to see what other compounds do after having such great success with Test only.
gyno prone, I wouldn't go near dbol with a 10 ft pole. AI or not, the methyl estro it produces is pretty powerful and can catch you by surprise. Didn't your mom tell you to not play with fire
Run some provi or tbol if you are bored with test.
I've got my order in and posted a pic of what I got. I was covering all angles really as I hadn't decided whether to run a very low dose Dbol kicker for the first 4 weeks or go for your suggestion of Tbol and Proviron. I've decided to go with the Tbol, Provi, Test combo as you suggested. Can you advise me on dosing and how to run these 3 together? I was thinking 12 weeks 600mg Test, Tbol 40mg per day for the first 6 to 8 weeks, Proviron 25mg per day from week 4 to PCT. As TBol doesn't aromatize and Proviron is an anti estrogen anyway, I was thinking of leaving the adex out as I may not need it and just introduce it if needed. I'll start my cycle a week tomorrow so Monday 5th Feb. Any advise or opinions would be greatly appreciated.
Proviron....agree!!
Proviron does absolutely nothing for me which is strange. I got my damn hopes up but was very disappointed. And if I gotta go higher dosage then forget about it! Not worth the hair fallout at high dosages. I think a few years ago you mentioned you had some issues with it too. If I remember right
The second thing ever we agree on
Lol okay, I get the message. I know my source has Proviron but not sure about Tbol. I'll have to check the website. Any other orals you would recommend? Just that I've heard Provi just enhances what you already take rather than builds any muscle. I'm looking to add somthing for the wow factor...so I know the difference between Test only and Test plus ****.