Blood work
Wasn't sure how else to post it with out my name being on there. Its kinda fucked off.
Age: 38
Height: 72"
Weight: 220 - 225
BF: 14%
Goals: lean muscle
Cholesterol 177 mg/dL <200 mg/dL
Triglycerides 101 mg/dL <150 mg/dL
HDL Cholesterol 38 mg/dL 40 - 59 mg/dL
LDL Cholesterol Calculated 119 mg/dL <100 mg/dL
Chol/HDL Ratio 4.7
Total Cholesterol Guidelines
Range
TSH 1.73 uIU/mL 0.49 - 4.67 uIU/mL
Testosterone, Total 382.9 ng/dL
47.0 - 980.0 ng/dL
White Blood Cell Count 4.40 K/uL
3.60 - 11.00 K/uL
Red Blood Cell Count 4.82 M/uL
4.40 - 5.90 M/uL
Hemoglobin 15.3 g/dL 13.0 - 18.0 g/dL
Hematocrit 43.5 % 40.0 - 52.0 %
MCV 90.2 fL 80.0 - 100.0 fL
MCH 31.7 pg 26.0 - 34.0 pg
MCHC 35.2 g/dL 32.0 - 36.0 g/dL
RDW 45.8 fL 37.0 - 50.0 fL
Platelet Count 131 K/µL
150 - 440 K/µL
MPV 9.7 fL 8.0 - 13.0 fL
Neutrophils Relative Percent 59.2 %
54.0 - 74.0 %
Lymphocytes Relative Percent 27.3 %
22.0 - 42.0 %
Mixed % 13.5 % 2.0 - 16.0 %
Neutrophils Absolute 2.60 K/UL
1.50 - 8.50 K/UL
Lymphocytes Absolute 1.20 K/UL
1.10 - 3.50 K/UL
Mixed # 0.60 K/UL
0.20 - 1.60 K/UL
https://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/anabolic-steroids/second-try-at...
https://www.eroids.com/forum/general/over-40-trt/just-a-little-advice
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RustyhookerHere's your answers. After reading....click on the authors avatar and read his other reports. He is a medical pro.
https://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/when-checking-natural-...
Thanks for the link rusty.ill go research this alot more by myself before reasking as to not bombard with with the same question. IIts been hard for me to pin pont this to so many conflicting answers. Some say this and some sat that. I just wanted a good reference to learn exact time time or as close as possible timing' To get the most out of my test. Thanks Rusty taken the time and look this up and sharing this knowledge
RustyhookerHe built a Group just for blood work. Tons of info in there on everything blood related.
Dropdowns...groups...
Pass the popcorn -- this thread went 0 to 100 real quick
Here is the best advice. Go see a doctor. Also if you are clinically depressed go see a therapist. Your depression can lower your testosterone and also cause libido issues. Try it before you think trt is the answer, because for all any of us know your estrogen is out of whack and causing all your problems. So why did you leave out all your estrogen numbers as well as free test?
Not depressed at least I think I'm not. Doctor just didn't want to do what I asked which was a complete blood work. The Doctor also told me there is no way to measure estrogen levels. definitely don't want to go trt. The high cholesterol could be due the fact of drinking eight raw eggs a day to which I stopped that now. Free test not sure why they didn't pull that either.
RustyhookerSwitch dotors. He's full of shit. Privatemdlabs as well as ANY lab can get estro readings. Its not special in any way.
Getting some mixed advice on test lvls. Will respond to all questions tonight. Busy day.
First off, your total test is low.
Let's get this straight up front: abandon for a moment, the idea that a range can uniformly apply to everyone, because it cannot. Check average test levels, if you can from a study in your neck of the woods/continent etc. and check those levels for your age.
You may find that your actual range should be somewhere between 6-700. If you opt for the lower end of the scale, it makes your current total test levels look pitiful.
I would want to see your free test, estro and PRL levels too. Would also want to detail on your diet as per MedDx's queries
But importantly, I would like to know your history with bodyfat... has it ever been high? If so, when? Is it high now? Definitely need that info and E2 and Prolactin levels, ideally free test levels too. Please also detail your exercise lifestyle for the past sort of 5 years, activity types durations and frequency - just trying to build a picture here
You are definitely low on testosterone and cannot attempt another cycle until you figure this out. It may explain the depression you experience and many other things.
Oh and for the 3rd time now; can you please detail your PCT from last cycle. This, again, is important, especially given your blood results and low testo.
He is not low on testosterone, did you even read it correctly? He is in range for his age as 380 is low normal. His cholesterol is high, he starts cycling he is risking a stroke.
OP needs to get his cholesterol in check and fast.
I say he IS low on test at the time test was taken, based solely on the info given, BUT free test is really where it's at right? So without that reading cross referenced against a true range for a male his age, we don't really know with absolute certainty.
You say 380 is normal low. How is 380 normal for any normal healthy 38yo man? Can you please break that down for me and I dont mean just an sure everybody knows this response, I mean some facts, please?
How can you quantum leap from a high LDL reading to a stroke without testing the ldl particles to see ration of GOOD ldl (big particles) to bad ldl (small particles) - diet can be a pointer, but testing size is essential to making any diagnosis based on ldl. Anything else is malpractice.
Be careful with the advice on cholestorol, its the low reading that probably need most immediate attention, whereas the high needs diagnosis/testing.
RustyhookerQuantum leap? You mean what? Cholesterol always jumps up on a cycle. Everyone knows that.
Malpractice? You're joking right? I see no md/phd attached to anything you've posted or commented on yet.
Oh wait.... I'll get right back to being on keto diet while bulking. I bout choked on that bullcrap.
Your advice and partot chat is subpar. Whats your real gimmick here?
Quantum leap: No man!!! no, I am saying it is a leap to see a high LDL readings and assume a stroke is on the way. There are good and bad LDL's - needs to be assessed to see size and numbers of large and small ldl particles with the both factors and all classes of ldl being important.
Nice article, with references: http://www.diabloclinical.com/when-it-comes-to-cholesterol-particles-siz...
Malpractice - No way, absolutely not joking. But let me qualify: You can have high LDL consisting of primarily large healthy LDL particles which are in fact 'good' ldl's. Yet the medical profession often sees high ldl's and immediately prescribes statins or even stent surgery. I am saying that I consider it malpractice to do so without checking particle size and numbers first. I am also saying it is silly for you, IrishMack, Me or anyone to auto assume a high ldl is a bad thing (which it may or may not be, but would need to be diagnosed!)
Large LDL can prevent CVD: http://www.internationaljournalofcardiology.com/article/S0167-5273(05)01166-6/pdf
Keto: Ok! My methods are based on fat adaption derived from a ketogenic approach and ketosis, not necessarily the ketogenic diet per se, but hey, what would I know about what I do?!!! These lads must be full of it too by your logic:
1. Hypertrophy on keto. 11 weeks research study on weightlifters using dxa and ultrasonography showing increased lean mass, and muscle mass with fat loss (oooooooohhhhh!!!!): https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1550-2783-11-S1-P40
2. Hypertrophy: http://jap.physiology.org/content/120/10/1173
3. Muscle sparing effect (wow, good for a cut too?!): http://journals.lww.com/acsm-essr/Fulltext/2015/07000/The_Ketogenic_Diet...
So Rusty.... what's your game here? I am throwing around info and you are flaming me/insulting me/trolling me, yet offering absolutely no evidence to the contrary, just attempted insults. Whats wrong with you?! Why do you dislike evidence/info that seems to challenge your opinion?
Whats wrong with ya fella? World still flat???
RustyhookerTestosterone, Total 382.9 ng/dL..47.0 - 980.0 ng/dL
Ummmm....what?
Yessir. it's real... ranges are just ranges (who'd have thought?!)
Endocrine society lit review: 70 year olds in 2003: https://www.endocrine.org/news-room/press-release-archives/2006/testoste...
TRT/HRT sources: Check 40-50: 450-550
https://www.hght.com/testosterone/testosterone-levels-chart/
https://www.hgh.biz/testosterone-levels
Solid online blog, great source of info: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Testosterone_Levels_Male.aspx
RustyhookerOkay Gearhead.....
382 aint low. Anyone with a brain knows full well is could be 382 today and 450 tomorrow. Its effected by anything including environments and foods. Fasting, non fasting, that days fsh and lh pulse. Morning to night will change range by 100.
Quit parroting bullshit and pull it together.
I would have to agree that 382 isn't low especially since we don't know what time bloods were drawn or if they were fasted or not. That could have a huge influence on levels.
0900 bloods drawn. Fasted.
Boom.
Yes agreed 100% there is a probable deviation there for sure. I mean any trip to the docs is a stressful thing, and stress is a known killer of test all in itself. But what are we saying here... there is a 220 drop in test? I dunno Mak, I find it hard to believe.150 and you'd have me, but 220... I dunno.
I say we need free test and E2 levels. If free Test is also low, there is a definite problem. If it's high, it could be another issue. If estro is high or low, it could be the cause of his feeling bad. If he started at lets say 500ng/dl before cycling and did a rubbish PCT and is now walking around at what some feel is an acceptable 382, the drop alone is enough to make him feel crappy (subjective factor). So, nobody here online really can say definitively what his issue is. This said, I stand by by statements on ranges.
So still, the lad needs a specialist and more tests; min E2 and free T. The fact is we only have total test as an indicator.right now, so it is enough to say there is a potential problem there that should be looked into.
Come on man, I seen free test low and high regular. I seen high free and low regular. Free test is only a place holder for shbg, lsh, fsh, and e2. Everyone is quick to blame low test on just about anything, except shitty diet, stress, and anxiety. His fkn cholesterol is high, testosterone is a derivitive of cholesterol, did you think for even a minute that could be his issue?
RustyhookerI'll be busy today quantum leaping.
Where is his free test high reading, I completely missed that.... Can you share the reading for this man, as everything I have stated is based on having not seen that on his reading?????
Re: cholestorol... well no not really... I did not consider the cause of his low Total test to be high LDL. My understanding is that it is a relationship of paralells or even test driving chol rather than the other way around, BUT in reverse to this man's current readings, and in reverse to what you are saying..... I.e. high HDL parallels or is driven up by high test, and low ldl should show paralell with reduced test level. I might be wrong, but please do break it down for me. honestly I do love learning about that stuff and if i am wrong would love to get it right.
I think you might have some things backwards brohimbe??
http://www.drmirkin.com/men/1008.html
http://www.testofuel.com/tf/the-cholesterol-and-testosterone-relationship/
If he posts both numbers ldl and hdl then we have an understanding or maybe I missed it. Then again this is just written out and there is no paper to prove any of his numbers.
Those articles are just quickies
high test/androgens raises ldl, lowers hdl
http://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/testosterone-and-the-heart
The more I think about it, the more I think this fella made a mess of his PCT
Cheers for links. I cant see them differentiate between ldl and hdl to demo the parlaell relationship.
But interestingly, the second link you shared, shows a correlation between low fat diets lowering t levels
This is interesting as it corresponds with what is known about Keto high fat diets increasing T, and increasing LDL levels which when tested will show themselves to be large particle/good LDL
Rusty dont try insult me by calling me troll names. It makes you look like an absolute twat!!!
Of course test levels fluctuate periodically during any given day, but i dont see anyone asking OP about that. I have told him to get get more bloods.
Look man, you need to consider that at 382 +100 (I agree with your point completely on fluctuations, could even be 150 a day/week), OR even a hugely optimistic 200.... STILL has him below the normal range for a man of his age. Let's even go so far as to say the hand of Jebus himself reached down and gave this man an extra 220 and a pizza and beer to cheer him up, thereby putting him in range.... he is still at the absolute BOTTOM of the range for his age. That's still not an idea/optimal place to be.
Do the maths sir and stop spouting bullshit. Depression is no joke and this man is here for help/ You me MedDix aint helping the man. He needs a doctor FFS!
OP, you need a doctor and more bloods as i already stated..Dont listen to this bullshit, or mine, these lads are steering you down the wrong path, in fact, go to a specialist who really knows what they are doing. A solid TRT head should help you, BUT you might need to search for one of those.
Depression is the reason he has low test to begin with. Outside influences affect your body. I bet if he was put on zoloft or prozac or maybe even was happy his test level woukd increase by 100.
Giving someone a medicine to mask the underlying symptom does not help it only hurts.
It's a bit of a quantum leap to say "Depression is the reason he has low test to begin with"
How can you or I or anyone make that assumption?
He has said he feels depression like symptoms, but thats all, as far as I know now, I might have missed something though
I certainly haventy advised him to take medications, just get specialist advice and do more bloods to help along the way. If you think I was advising him to go TRT, I wasn't. I have a healthy respect for the more knowledgable TRT people out there (although I am sure good ones are hard to find, same as anything else)... I think that they are in the process of gaining a lot of qualitative info and subjective (from their patients) knowledge that the endo 101 handbook will not have for many moons. I think if he could find a ROCK solid TRT lad for advice it could only help, then aim for natural solutions of course.
OP if you read this, I hope you are clear on that/
So you tried to disguise mocking me by telling the OP to look for advice from someone else. All your fancy talk may fool other people but I see through it. You are telling the OP to look for trt by telling him he is low for his age, any fkn moron will look at that and then COSIGNED. Please dont try and insult my intelligence again.
Whoahhh there friendo
No I sure didn't. You are misinterpreting what I said. My comment to OP was to clarify why I said he might benefit from taking to a TRT expert
Fancy talk * - what?
*You are telling the OP to look for trt - Jesus Christ man, did you read what I said?! lol I absolutely did not
telling him he is low for his age He is, per any literature I have read. Maybe you can share something to the contrary, but I doubt it
any fkn moron will look at that and then COSIGNED - riiiiiiight! Another quantum leap based on your misinterpretation
Please dont try and insult my intelligence again - based on the above, I cannot guarantee that! I wish I could but cant.
Good job trying to flame me though! lol
How about I just be myself and you go fuck yourself you fkn dick on a stick?
Yes, that is much better, more efficient and straight to the point!
Good job, respect!
Your brain isn't right bro...you're on some kind of stimulant...or you're abusing drugs...scale back on what you're doing dude...
Okey doke!
Must cut back on coffee, must cut back on coffee..... tweak tweak shake
SOS from the rubberneckin' ... imo....old news, too, right? .we know what's right...old proverbial saying...you give someone enough rope, they'll hang themselves....
382 is in range...there is other reasons to pontificate why OP is feeling run down, which is only diagnosed by a doctor. OP is going to cycle regardless of what anyone suggests.lol..that's human nature.... 
I'd ask OP about lifestyle...social history ...drinking, smoking, drug use...FSH/LH would be good to know, too. T3/T4, lytes, cortisol...
Man oh man, you love living with the status quo dont ya?!!!!
" In range " for who a 90 year old?
When was this range devised and for who?!!!!!!!!!!
382 is low for his age. or would you like to provide any evidence to the contrary? Shock me, enlighten me, educate me, god knows I need it!!!
He is well within range for his age. 567ng/dl is mid and the 5th percentile is 329. No doctor in his right mind would be putting him on trt at his current level.
Simon, D., Nahoul, K., & Charles M.A. (1996). Sex Hormones, Aging, Ethnicity and Insulin Sensivity in Men: An Overview of the TELECOM Study. In Vermeulen, A. & Oddens, and B. J. (Eds.), Androgens and the Aging Male (pp. 85-102). New York: Parthenon Publishing.
I would take a natty level 400 over a 600 from trt. Anything over 600 and my urologist freaks out.
Sorry Mak, I have to call bs on this. I have read those pages in the book just now, only saw your post now.
This is a 30 year old study of sedentary french office workers. This is absolutely not representative of an overall population. Secondly there is pretty much only one ethnicity studied in the end, therefore no diversity of either geographic location, or ethnicity.
The mean is 600. Even with one deviation it comes to 410, which is above the OP's level. He is still below the lower end of this study. Further, referencing P90; the authors admit that they needed to improve the quality of the study so did a study within the study and then only looked at 30 handpicked subjects with a range from 2.9 to 5.9 - the results showed the lower test levels group had low hdl, high insulin, greater BMI, greater hip to waist measurements etc.... meaning they were less healthy in general than those with the mean or median test levels.
Therefore, attempting to say that the OP is in range because his levels are just below 1 standard deviation from a population his age in a study from 30 years ago of a bunch of sedentary office workers from France , where the study authors in mid-study identified that they need to improve the sample and reduced it to 30 people (!!!!!) is more than just a stretch.
Unfortunately, this study only goes to prove my point even further. A range is not a range, and the OP is in fact below average for his age, per this study. I mean come on... let's not forget the fella is a healthy bodybuilder?!
Oh and I dont know why you referenced TRT... I don't believe anyone advised him to consider that, I certainly didn't and wouldnt.
At 38 I was at 300, my doctor said I was normal for my age. At 40 I was at 220, endo prescribed a therapist because of my situation of depression. 6 months later I was prescribed because I only increased by 50.
I dunno what to say to that! I honestly dont other than 300 is not even close to right for the average joe's age, but again who can account for subjectivity, only your good self really. I believe you of course, but have only questions... How do you feel about it? Feel really good, happy about it? As in feel great like your testo is al rock solid etc??
If happy then I guess it is got to be amazing for you, end of all discussion. But if your talking ng/dl, its still qualifying as below the so called average per age. But again, that doesnt mean shit if that level is rocking your world. OP's world is not being rocked and needs help.
I can't wait for school to start back up...kids like you don't need to be on here...find somewhere else to play...
Have a nice day!
My kids are back in school already! Thankfully.
You have highlighted your ignorance to the nth degree!!!! Dont worry though, you're not alone, I do it daily, just not as much as you on this topic. Educate yourself, do a little light reading per the links I just posted. It really is interesting. If you are going to come on here and give your opinion or ATTEMPT to belittle me, at least let it be based on some facts, rather than BS regurgitated opinion (the easy option)
Think logically man.... EVEN if the OP was within the range for his age etc. which he sure as shit aint.... and at the bottom of that range.... WOULD YOU want that? wouldnt anyone want to be higher than the bottom of that range? Maybe midway when natty? or just under top Q? I dunno... I would.
The lad is complaining about DEPRESSION....... He is under range for his age... and you rock on and slag off someone who points out the truth of his total test situ? Are you serious man??? Do you know how dangerous that can be??
Fkn depression... OP is here for help....and you are spouting bullshit. You're dangerous.
And your estradiol sounds too high...you kind of have that whiny tone, especially when you don't get your way!...Bhahaha.....just saying...Gearhead
It's not I swear!
You still taking tone from text?!!! hahaha good man, well done!
You sir are laughable at best! Namecalling at 44 or what have ya.... SMH at ya, but with a lovely tone smile on my face
You enjoy being wrong there now and have a greaaaaaat day!
:-) (can you detect the lovely tone?!)
You should apologize to the OP for high jacking his forum...I never called you any bad names..now, now, we must not get too upset...lack of concentration might keep you from providing further great links and parroted information to other members...please help all you can....
lol Stop attempting to twist things! Doesnt work on me pal!
Looking forward to reading your contributions on the forum, should be fun!
Another washed up retread looking for fkn handouts...what a cheesball...get lost punk...lmfao