+ 1 How do you determine levels of shutdown caused by exogenous use of AAS ?...
OK, so the farther I get into my research of AAS the more and more questions I have, Over the next few days I plan to write out some of these questions as well as articles from research I have done that caused these questions to arise. I'm hoping a lot of you knowledgeable guys will know some of the answers, and hopefully this information will be passed along to newcomers interested in the world of AAS.
So the question at hand is how do people come up with these determinations of "HOW' much shutdown is caused by what chemical you use. I've heard all over the internet conflicting information. Some say if your shutdown, your shut down, that there are no varying degrees. I tend to disagree with hat statement because say someone uses anavar at 10mg a day compared to someone running a gram of tren a week. The guy running the gram of tren, in my opinion, is going to have a lot more trouble recovering than the guy using the anavar at a low dose. So that leads me to the first question. Different levels of shutdown, or is shutdown all on the same plane? Proof of these claims would be appreciated.
Now here is when things get tricky for me and this was my original question. Say someone was running a 20 week cycle of say Tren (Known for hard shutdown) and Primobolan depot (Known for less of a shutdown). The first 10 weeks of the cycle the guy is running the tren alongside the primo and the last 10 weeks he is running primo alone. Say tren shuts you down on a hypothetical level of 10 on a scale from 1-10, and Primo shuts you down on a hypothetical level of 6 on a scale from 1-10. In theory would this guy stay shutdown the entire time at a level of 10 for the whole 20 weeks due to the tren at the beggining or would he be at a level 6 at the end because the tren is gone? would he be at a shutdown level of say, 7, which is more than primo alone but less than tren ? Now before i get a general post of person dependent, i fully understamnd that. I am talking mostly in theory here. As with any scientific approach this question is basically my hypothesis and with any "experiment:" There will always be a +- factor to consider based on many aspects...
Below is an article I read that shows, I guess you you could say "proof", or "opinion" however some of this is backed up in a scientific article that i will have to try and locate. I will post it later upon finding it. so here is is!
I did NOT write this article. The credit is due to this source. I posted to help with information to support my question on the subject at hand.
http://www.evolutionary.org/how-testosterone-supplementation-shuts-down-...
So HERE is exactly how Testosterone supplementation (AAS) Shuts you down.
Abbreviations
LH = Luteinizing hormone
HPTA = Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Testicular Axis
FSH = Follicle stimulating hormone
GnRH = Gonadotropin releasing hormone
When exogenous Testosterone any type of steroid derivative is used, a cascade of actions take place in this order.
Your Hypothalamus (This is your master gland in your brain) secretes GnRH, that causes your pituitary gland to secrete LH & FSH. The increase in these hormones causes the testes to stimulate the Leydig cells to produce testosterone (by conversion of cholesterol). Testosterone then has the ability to undergo various metabolic processes that will inhibit GnRH, which in turn inhibits the secretion of LH and FSH, and that brings a halt to natural testosterone production. This is referred to as the negative feedback loop. Once testosterone has stopped being produced, it no longer sends this negative signal, and GnRH eventually begins to do its job again.
This is how homeostasis is maintained in the human body.
The whole idea of supplementing with steroids is to override the mechanism for negative feedback. There is a huge misconception that we can take huge amounts of steroids and we do not have to worry about not producing testosterone because we are replacing it with an exogenous source.
The big problem with this is we have is that certain steroids cause this to a greater degree than others. Estrogenic steroids, or steroids referred to as wet bulking steroids, convert to the hormone estrogen in larger doses, and this causes greater suppression than an androgen alone.
“Aromatization mediates testosterone’s short-term feedback restraint of 24-hour endogenously driven and acute exogenous gonadotropin-releasing hormone-stimulated luteinizing hormone and follicle-stimulating hormone secretion in young men” “J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2001 Jun;86(6):2600-6. The increased estrogen sends signals that there is to much conversion, while your Hypothalamus sends signals that too much estrogen is in your system, so the secretion of LH and FSH is halted. The leydig cells stop producing test, until homeostatis is met, and testosterone has a higher ratio to estrogen than it currently has. Using something to stop this conversion like aromasin, arimidex or letrozole can also decrease the amount of shutdown caused, or speed up the recovery process.
Some steroids are not as inhibitory of testosterone production partly because of the fact they do not confer to estrogen, Anavar being one, and it doesn’t saturate androgen recepetors as trenbolone would.
Saturation of the Androgen receptor or increased androgen levels in the blood are the main cause of shutdown, and with steroids like trenbolone, the effects last much longer because the metabolites linger in the cell and receptor.
Prolactin, another hormone produced by the pituitary and regulated by the hypothalamus, can also decrease testosterone in men. If elevated, prolactin can lead to side effects on cycle and cause problems with recovery and pct. Suppressing prolactin is a good idea to prevent long lasting problems after a cycle has ended. Steroids that can increase prolactin, mainly 19-nors, such as nandrolone and trenbolone, need to be taken with extra precaution.
Keeping this in mind when starting a cycle and planning a PCT is vital.
I have made it as simple as I can, it does not need to be complicated as many make it seem. Take precaution, research thoroughly and never take a shortcut and you will keep yourself in good health and be able to make the most out of every cycle you run, promote longevity and continue to lead a long and healthy life.
Nothing is more important than healthy and safety.
Take precautions and aim to achieve.
Sources
(1.) J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2001 Jun;86(6):2600-6
(2.) http://www.evolutionary.org/how-testosterone-supplementation-shuts-down-...
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I asked you a question in your aromasin post that you did not reply to. If you can take the time please answer it, also add your free test as well, better yet your bloodwork would be much better.
will do. ill check it now
I think you're looking at this a simplistic way. There are tons of factors that go into shutdown, but what we're really talking about is recovery.
You mentioned anavar. That will shut you down, but it depends on the dose, time on, etc. Same with every other compound. The stronger the compound, the quicker it shuts you down and the potential of a difficult recovery.
But the BIGGEST variable is genetics. One guy can run all kinds of cycles, with various compounds and come out of every PCT with flying colors. You can have a guy run one simple test cycle, run the same PCT and he can't recover.
Are the chances greater of not recovering when you run tren or deca, absolutely, but there is no formula that calculates the degree of "shutdown" and recovery. It all depends on what you've run, at what dose, how long, and your PCT. Then throw your genetics on top of all that, and there's your answer...
The article you mentioned basically recommended being smart with your cycles and PCT. Solid advice.
Stevebx2. And some people can get women pregnant while on cycle while other guys might not be fertile anymore after using gear.
Appreciate the reply and the more I research that's really what I'm coming to conclude. The reason tren is said to shutdown so hard is because more people who have ran tren are shutdown permanent or longer depending on a multitude of different factors. So it's not that "science" is proving that tren makes you shutdown harder, it's more of a compilement of a lot of people's experience rather than a rating scale. I guess there prob will never be a defined answer but I really want to get down to the surface and see WHY these different compounds have different degrees of shutdown. What are all the components that cause these? What are the genetic variables that doffremce me from you? I guess I want to know basically how these things work. In and out.