+ 3 Counting Reps and Total Failure.
Do people here count reps often? I've been thinking about how much weaker the mind is than the body. A good friend of mine who was a professional athlete and is currently a psychologist told me "the mind almost always fails before the body". The mind says quit and the body soon follows.
So I quit counting reps because I think it's something the mind does to determine how much it should work. For instance, I was training hamstrings the other day and I got to around 15 reps and I thought " its quitting time but....I wonder how many I can actually get" I went on to get 44 reps. And the weight was heavy for me, very close to the full rack on seated ham curl.
My thought was "holy shit I'm selling myself short by even allowing the brain into the mix".
Am I just training way too light when I realize something like I could probably get 8 or even 12 more reps if I would stop being such a pussy?
I know lots of people will read this and say "fuck if you can do that many more - you aren't training hard enough at all". I don't feel like this is the case. The case was that I was relying on my mind rather than my body to determine workload.
So now I do count back from 3. Like a mantra - I feel like I can always get 3 more. So there is a little counting but I have no clue how many reps I did yesterday.
By the way, my hamstrings were so beautifully sore following that 44 rep set, for 5 days.
Just curious how you people approach the rep count.
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Darron614I pretty much go until failure for every exercise. Like if it is my last set, then I am not stopping until I am incapable of doing another rep (then get a couple cheat reps!). Except things like abs where I just go until the pain is unbearable.
I don't usually count I just lift until I'm fatigued with that set. Usually shoot for 6-8 reps on heavy compound lifts
BigBmajAfter alanya mentioned not being able to imagine getting 44 reps, I was thinking about an exercise that can really illustrate this case.
As I said I don't think heavy compounds are a good example because the element of fear factors in. The I may drop this on my face aspect of failure, or fear. So when my body senses fatigue on a compound lift, or pain, it starts to bail quickly - or more quickly than it should. Like I said a spot with two fingers can easily get you 5 more reps sometimes more.
So the exercise I came up with to illustrate this best is a calf raise. How many times have you quit when you know damn well you could have gotten 10 more - and you thought you were pushing hard and training to "failure".
Well I've been pushing harder keeping all this stuff in mind. And I love all the feedback, thanks guys and gal.
I always write down all my reps and weights for each workout. Then when I do that workout again I can try to push myself harder by trying to get more reps in or doing heavier weight with the same amount of reps. I take all sets to failure and by trying to best my previous workouts I am continually progressively overloading my muscles to keep the gains coming.
BilMcbigballsBINGO! That's the key my man. Intensity and you said it :OVERLOAD! the most productive workouts that pay dividends is when I do overload training.
I've actually thought of this very thing. I had tried DC training back in 05 and got into the counting reps. I think if u trained like that ALWAYS your nervous system would be fried. I had some success with switching reps/rest/poundage. Is that called periodization, im not sure.
We would actually try to get 20 reps at a decent heavy weight, especially leg presses. Trained at Frogs Gym in Solana Beach.
WithdrawlGreat post! Brings up an excellent point. I find myself reaching failure at a certain rep and often wonder if I reached failure at that rep because my mind finds it acceptable to stop, rather than REALLY push for one more rep. I'm going to try to not count reps, as hard as that is, and see what happens over time. Nice post homie. I wish there were more training principals posted more often. +1
BigBmajThat's why I count back from 3. And don't keep track. Because the mind likes to count.
Thanks bro.
I think the responses about the mind being the weak link are right on--unless you are older. Then you better listen to your brain because your body on roids will lie to you and you will get injured.
My first blast, age 56, I went from toning up spaghetti-like atrophied muscles benching 90 lb, to skyrocketing in strength to 300 lb in a few months. Yeah, shoulder injury that still hasn't healed completely over a year later. Duh.
There's always been the rule of thumb as to how many reps and sets to do depending on what your goals are, and what percentage of your max weight you use, again dependent on goals. Going with that thought if you wanted to max at 15 but went to 44 then the weight was too light.
Definitely interesting thoughts here. Some of you are saying you train to failure always. Does that mean multiple sets failing each time or one big set to failure? The complete failure vs mental failure is sure to keep in the mind for next session.
When I do failure sets the goal is to do a minimum of 20 reps than to failure. It's primarily to get the biggest pump and force as much blood as possible into the muscles. I've seen a few pros who talked about doing these kind of things maybe not exactly like this but to get the best pump n as much blood in as possible. There's a lot of focus on the relax, contraction and flex when I do these high volume failure sets. I do these only for about 4 weeks than I slowly increase weight, drop reps Until by the end of the routine cycle, im doing sets of 4-5 with reps of 4-6 in the last week of the routine.
I always train to failure whatever exercise I am doing. I exhaust myself completely. But I also do a lot unconventional training compared to just lifting weights. Trying to combine great endurance with maximum strength increase.
So reps vary every time. I saw a video on a well known bodybuilder who put an emphasis on strict form and less weight. Also making a point that he was a body builder and not a weight lifter his name is Kal Greene. I found it very interesting because he really made some good points about the difference between a bodybuilder and a weight lifter. After looking at this guy I don't think anyone can dispute that he is a expert bodybuilder.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hktvXNWjHR8
For me strength and endurance are more of a priority then being a bodybuilder. But I am fascinated with the science and training behind bodybuilding I guess because of the discipline that I know one must exhibit to do it.
BigBmajYou mention total failure. My question is - how do you know it's total failure.
My friend does crossfit, I know, but he's really good, top 5 in the world for his age bracket. He says we don't really know total failure unless we collapse - and even then it's probably the mind collapsing.
So in the past what i thought was failure was really my mental weakness. I know it's not good to always train to failure for bodybuilding purposes, or I've read. But I wonder how many of us actually know what "total failure" looks like.
You see people do amazing things all the time I'm sure. Stuff they "know" they can't do. But they do it. They couldn't if they had to think about it tho.
Just curious. And don't get me wrong I know you know what hard work is.
You know that is a good point and honestly one that probably can be honestly answered I guess unless you are dead lol. I go until i cannot move the object any more as far has resistance training. Same with pullups I will hang and pull until my grip fails me. I can't say I run to total failure because I real don't have the time when distance running. With wind sprints I puke every time also my legs cramp and do to the heat my vision gets blurred.
Could I go longer maybe I could. I believe all physical training is rtruly governed by the mind except in the cases of legitimate medical issues.
BigBmajHow many people here go to that kind of failure do you think? Ill bet most haven't puked during a workout.
BilMcbigballsI never puked. Oh wait I drank some generic preworkout crap and barfed halfway through leg day!
It is a funny psychological thing. When I went through BUD/s I puked pretty much we all did or pass out at some point, which was the goal of the training, to take us to our limits and see if we will continue or quit. Well ever since then I have always feared if I don't duplicate as much as possible that training then I will become weak in perseverance.
That is why when I ever I can I train with guys half my age. MMA, wrestling, judo etc, and push till what appears to be failure. I am also fortunate to be able to train with the best modern day combat warriors who have superior endurance. Oh also if you have access ocean swimming is the best for over all body conditioning. The ocean is like the weights we lift it never gets tired so you don't ever out last it.
BigBmajSo you owe that to the military - knowing your limits or pushing as close to. I don't think many people are afforded that possibility. What a wonderful thing really.
And you learn about pain being something to deal with rather than run away from. I think the relationship we have to pain often determines our physique in the end.
That is absolutely correct, it would actually be a great post by itself. So much where I have seen guys quit as opposed to other guys all things being equal was purely the will to endure and not give in to the pain. This is what separates men, the way they process pain. My mentality was being weak was so much worse then being in pain! And if I let pain win I would be weak for ever and degrade into even greater weakness for it.
when i do high volume routines, i do medium to light weight, I dont count reps, i just do every set to failure. i hope i get at least 20 plus reps each set but i couldnt tell ya. the goal for me is relax, focus on the contraction and get as much pump and blood in the muscle as possible. i know im doing it right if im jumping around from pain because the pumps are so intense and i cant do another rep no matter how i hard i try, but if im going for strength routines i do count my reps and put more focus on what weight im doing.
I actually thought and experience the same thing.
I always seem to convince myself I'm going to fail on my last set,,, no way am I going to push through 10 reps.
Once I tried counting to 5 twice and had no problems at all.
Lol, that's kinda strange because I've wondered the same dame thing! I finally quit counting and it seems like that gives me just a little bit better focus on wtf I'm doing at the time and in most cases I also do more reps than I'd normally do
AnonI try to change my workout depending on how I feel on a day to day.. some days I feel stupid strong - the others I get a crazy pump from burn out reps
Just depends on the workout for me, I like to really warm up and I go light...usually I count in that case. If I'm going heavy I usually don't count, if my spot is there I try to crank out as many as I can. I like where your head is at for sure, very interesting topic to think about! Thanks for bringing it up
ClassyChassisI have an idea roughly, just so I know if the weight is appropriate, but I do as many as possible and then imagine a gun to my head and it's "3 more or else". Then I do that again and if I fail, oh well. I'm not afraid to die as long as it's in a struggle for my life.
But yeah, someone will ask me for a spot and say, "I'm going to do 6" or whatever, and I'm like, "How do you know how many you're going to do?" Ha ha.
You're absolutely right. It's a self-fufilling prophecy. I don't always train to failure though. Sometimes I just keep the muscle under constant tension for 45-60 seconds by keeping the ROM where the muscle doesn't get even a split second to relax. And I try to make each "rep" equally difficult if that makes sense.
Good post. I'm sure there are many who could benefit by evaluating their training in light of what you've posted here..
BigBmajThanks bro.
waltrI count reps on warm-up sets not really on my working ones