Heart EF 40-45% - ayn expereince with this one anyone?
Question: EF 40–45% After Test/NPP Cycle, been on test for over year mostly around 200 mg
I'm 44, 5'10", ~200 lb during cycle, this was ended two months ago, right now 190 lbs, with no symptoms and have been lifting for years. My recent echo showed:
EF 40–45%
Mild LV dilation + mild global hypokinesis
Normal GLS -19.8%
No LV hypertrophy
Normal diastolic function/RV function
I previously ran Test C ~300 mg/week + NPP 150 mg/week for ~16 weeks. NPP is stopped and I don't plan to use it again. Currently only Test C, which my cardiologist knows about.
I have NO symptoms and can lift normally and run ~0.5 mile without unusual SOB or chest pain.
During cycle while i was a 200 Ibs, i started snoring (right now i don't snore at 190 lbs, dropped the test dose to 150 mg) did a sleep test, they find sleep apeane, prescribed CPAP, yet to pick but right now i don't snore and feels great.
Cardiologist started: Empagliflozin 10 mg, Metoprolol succinate 25 mg, Sacubitril/valsartan 24/26 mg
They're also doing a treadmill ECG and testing for coronary artery disease.
For anyone who has experienced something similar: did your EF/LV size recover after stopping NPP/reducing AAS? How long did it take, and did you remain on heart medications? Any other pointers to share if at all. Thanks community.
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Pipeliner47I can write a book on the subject but I'll try to keep it short. First of all saying it's right after a cycle is like saying it wasn't there before the cycle which you honestly don't know I'm guessing. Unless you had a previous echo right before your cycle that says everything was in order. Secondly ultrasound are not that definitive when it comes to HF. You really need to have a stress test done with the echo to see what's really going on. And even at that it will only warrant further proper testing such as a cardiac MRI with contrast. I don't see any mention of this just a list of medications. Apnea can lead to heart failure yes. There are many other markers in blood work that can help pinpoint the cause. For me it was ignoring high blood pressure and thick blood for a long ass time. Not smart not cool. Have they offered any sort of genetic testing or they just throwing you straight on the medical Monopoly of medications. I don't think you would feel much of a difference with that EF. The dilation can be reversed yes, luckily I'm not seeing anything about cardiomyopathy, which is the thickening of the heart muscle. In reality they wouldn't know until an MRI is done. I actually have the opposite it's a thinning of the wall, so it's like a flabby balloon. There are many ways to strengthen your heart in reverse the dilation. I have had to go to some pretty extreme lengths to correct my EF into normal range. I was diagnosed with global heart failure at 45. That means both halves. Although I fill the prescriptions for losartan, Metropolol,, jardiance, spirolactin. I have never used them but I do want to keep my doctors for the continual testing. I'm my case it took lots of tb500 IM injected right over the heart, don't go to deep jk. Also peptide Ss31.
Arjuna is a godsend. a kind w/ arjunic acid himalay is good. Took double the recommended dose of that for over a year. That itself reversed a large portion of the dilation and brought my EF up. I was still not satisfied so I went to peptide route. Anyhow that stuff has had great results with people who are suffering from broken heart syndrome typically due to a loss of a loved one. Which is more of a temporary cardiomyopathy, but people have died from it. I take the standard dose everyday it's a great protector for the heart especially in this game. My cardiologist visits went from every 3 months to just once a year now that I'm back to tip top.
Just a piece of information nandrolone is known to be seven or 11 times more damaging to the heart than testosterone I can't remember exactly. I only run it once every 2 years now. Aside from that if your blood pressure is in range, you should be a little careful with those medications. If you're just looking to strengthen the heart and bring up the EF I'm not sure why the cardiologist didn't simply recommend jardiance only. Which is fantastic for that according to my research, and great for the kidneys also. But there does come and risk with that medication so I don't think I'll ever be using it. I went the natural route, Arjuna, hibiscus+ Hawthorneberry tea or iced teas. Short intensive burst cardio sessions. I was pretty much around where you were and then it took the peptides to get me up to 95%.
Word of recommendation they try to put you through all the hoops, now you need a heart cath, now you need a nuclear stress test, now you need this medication and that medication. You're just a customer with a very common problem. As we all know myocarditis is running rampant these days. Especially in children. Not cool. Apparently the science has pleaded the fifth lol I'm not trying to insinuate anything luckily I dodged that bullet anyhow. One of the most popular members of the site was going around butt sniffing and attacking anyone who was anti-vaxx. He thought it would be so good for everyone. Typical commy bloke. It's somebody's own personal business what the f they do. But I bet he feels like a pecker puller now. Sorry to go off track lol
Edit: throw in some high quality lumbrakinase. Not just natto. Mine is from Japan and has natto also. If you want to do the cath then have fun although it's really not fun. I smoked for almost 30 years, and they are like nope he's clean as a whistle, no genetic markers either. Total waste of time and don't go in through the groin either. Really you have nothing to worry about and I'm not trying to say you should be your own doctor I'm just trying to say that it's best to advocate for your own health through proper research and trying natural methods first and foremost. That's all. Good luck, hopefully someone else can chime in
Double edit. I don't do heavy squats any longer to prevent further heart enlargement. Figured I'd throw that in there. You might also want to look into Linus Pauling a biochemist from back in the day that claimed vitamin C and large doses protects the heart. I think he was taking like 40 g a day. I take Crystal C but only a modest 5G a day split, really fights the burn and gives the adrenals a nice kick. I most definitely notice the difference if I skip a day. Anyhow just some stuff for you to look into if you want take care
This is such a great info, thank you so much. it seems they are going to perform tests but in order of 1st treadmil test (schedule in 20 days), that stress test and than MRI to figure out a cause. I did echo 5 year ago which had everything normal so i can hear we can't certanily say nandrolone caused it but it's just my assumption probably it happened after i stopped cycle.
Ill look into all naturl remedies you menioned. Thank you again. Oh by the way, i have no issues of BP and any other, well i don't do squatt at all due to back but i do hack squat, don'tt like to go crazy high just good weight i feel tension but i hear you about squat issue.
Also, they said i can continue on test which i am continuing but can i be able to add primo or mast in future and run moderate dose cycle, any thoughts on this? i really appreciate all your info. thanks again
Pipeliner47Np! If you have normal BP I'm just a bit surprised the Metropolol and valsartan haven't run you too low just yet. Although the valsartan does take some time to get into full effect. Anyhow, primo is a fantastic compound, very versatile. Puts me in the best mental state over everything else. It's very expensive considering I won't bother unless I'm running 600 mg p/w for 12-16 weeks. I run it 2:1 Test or close enough, usually a gram of test. So it's either hit two spots on the body twice a week or one spot but you have to pick up five ml barrels and just use up to the four ml mark. They're way more comfortable to use. Masteron, I haven't touched that in years, although lately I've been feeling the itch simply for libido reasons. Too much of that stuff can really do some damage on the prostate over time, the last thing I need is a pegging from the wife just to take a leak lol luckily a few months of prostaphane aka sulphuraphane brought the swelling down. Also if I could have avoided the contrast I would have, apparently there are better machines that don't really require its use. (T3 maybe?)That's another one to really really think about before consenting that's all I'll say. They make you sign just as your on the MRI scanner. Nasty stuff. Anyhow I stayed on trt until I was at 60% LV EF before adding other compounds. The ticker is not an organ to play roulette with, I think if you're smart and persistent slow and steady is the way to go for notable gains. Glad to be of help, your gratitude is very much appreciated. Spiritual guy here, gratitude is one of the universe's languages. Thank you, take good care my friend