Please Critique (cycle advice)
Hoping some seasoned vet's in the PED game can critique where needed, the only thing I will be adamant about is ED subC injections, so much of the primary medical literature is supporting this route of administration now for a large number of reasons.
Cycle:
Test Prop or Test Cyp/Enanthate 400-500mg (wk 1-12) (this is where I need help making a decision on)
Anavar and/or rad140 (30-40mg/day, 10-20mg/day respectively wk 6-12)
AI as needed based on bloods
planning on getting blood work around wk 3-5 depending on the ester. If AI is needed I'll throw in .25 Arimidex ED and get a estradiol LC/MS-MS test 10-14 day after that to see if I need to adjust
PCT
hCG: 250-500ius ED (days 1-8),125-250ius ED (days 9-18),
Not sure if I should run hCG during my cycle, still need to read into the literature so advice here would be great
Nolva 40/40/20/20
Clomid: willing to take but is the necessary for a more beginner cycle like mine
Background:
- 28y/o , 5'10" , 192.2 lb's this morning around 10-11% bf with calipers. Going on 4 weeks with caloric deficit, cutting from 200-203lbs
- 10+ years of consistent training , powerlifting state records, might do a NPC show
- Diet and training I know what I'm doing, PEDs... not nearly the same level of knowledge
- First cycle 22y/o, really dumb and unnecessary (400mg test C/wk, winny 25 or 50mg the last 4-5 weeks)
- Second cycle: 28 y/o: Test Cyp started at 250mg/wk (wk 1-7),increased to 400mg/wk (wk 8-11)
This was from October to December
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SubQ is fine for micro-dosing in TRT with Test Cyp and a micro-dose would be 5 IU's doing 30 IU's will leave a painful bump that can easily turn into a cyst. If you decide to use Test Prop it would be useless to use it subQ because subQ injections have a slower release compared to I.M.
I don't see a benefit of doing subQ in a cycle. Maybe there's a benefit while on TRT, but for a blast I see no reason to do subQ, specially if you want to take advantage of the kick of Test Prop.
If you don't like constant deep pinning then use Test E. twice a week in larger doses.
The medical literature regarding subQ pinning is only related to medical TRT for testosterone deficient individuals, not for BB or power lifting.
I absolutely understand it is micro-dosed for daily subcutaneous injections.
There are multiple peer reviewed studies of subcutaneous injection of 25-100mg/injection. That would range from 0.1ml-0.4ml per shot subcutaneously. Granted this was done once weekly.
Are you saying that because of my frequency at the given volume I would be more prone to such an adverse reaction even if it was at a different site each time?
I'm saying that you will be prone to more risks for no clear or apparent benefit. For me is not worth it. Just do Test E. every 48hrs I.M. and go for the sure, tried and true way.
Just my 2cc.
appreciate that man. I've only done IM in the past, nothing against it, just thought subcutaneous made sense but I guess it's more suited for TRT as you mentioned.
I'm surprised being so into Powerlifting that you haven't branched into more suitable compounds yet?
I do enjoy powerlifting but I consider myself a powerbuilder. My focus right now is more geared towards bodybuilding and body composition.
I still will always incorporate decently heavy (RPE 7-9) singles, doubles, triples for the main SBD movements along with strength/hypertrophy sets and accessory training for these movements, however.
I will NOT allow you to transition into BB'ing - We need more powerlifters on here as it is Lol
AnonI agree
lmao don't worry I'll still stay true to powerlifting but its BB kinda summer ;)
RustyhookerED subC injections
Hella dumb. SubQ.....was intended for small doses. Youre gonna enjoy cellulitus
so 0.2-0.3ml ED is a large dose?
Also cellulitis is an infection of the deep dermis, not subcutaneous tissue. Furthermore it would only be likely due to contamination (i.e. improper sterilization, injection technique, etc.), which can happen just as equally with IM depot injections. Please enlighten me how this would be causative for cellulitis?
I swell up even on small amounts intramuscular is so muvh better imo. Also you should run enanthate or cyp not prop unless you just enjoy pinning yourself
Again, I was planning on injecting every day, low dose, subcutaneously so it wouldn't really matter about the frequency based on the ester. With that said, I've decided I'm going with Test E.
Gonna go through trial and error. If ED sc works well, I'll stick with it. Otherwise I'll do early M/late Th IM injections
RustyhookerGonna go through trial and error
Then writing a forum asking those who have done it is moot right?
Yeah man it is. I've also heard from people I know and through different forums that subcutaneous has been successful for them.
I appreciate your input. Very well may turn out that sc isn't the move for me but I would like to try based on the primary peer reviewed medical literature that is out there.
I’d like to read the literature on the subq vs intramuscular. Personally I couldn’t due to the amount of volume, oil after 0.3cc starts to hurt.
And pre cycle bloods?
As for you I have one question, after cutting for 4 weeks what is your goal with this cycle. And why rad or Anavar, they are very different
Big takeaway is it significantly alters the pharmacokinetics of testosterone, being that it'll result in much more stable serum concentrations of testosterone. Not necessarily right or wrong for IM vs. sc, but I feel one way is more efficient. I could imagine large sc injections would be uncomfortable lol
Pre-cycle bloods will be done once I purchase my order and receive my order (Total Testosterone LC/MS-MS, Estradiol, Sensitive LC/MS-MS, Free test (equilibrium dialysis), and a lipid panel).
Goal is primarily getting "near" contest ready in case I decided to enter a show, otherwise just a little bit of a physique recomp.
I agree they are very different in terms of one being an AAS and one being a SARM. But from my understanding they'll work similarly on a deficit being that both will help to preserve muscle mass, non-aromatizing, increasing strength. I could be wrong though.
My real question comes down to selecting Test Prop vs E/C, however.
I will say that test p vs E/C is negligible, at least imo. It comes down more to how frequently you want to inject.
RustyhookerYou ever subQ prop?
No, I tried subq once with test C. The reason I didn’t address it was because OP can do this if he wants to, and if it’s too hard to handle he will switch. My way of looking at it is that the risk isn’t tremendous and at worst is discomfort (assuming no injections, but that’s possible with any injection), and so if he wants to endure it he can
RustyhookerOP can do this if he wants to
Of course!
Risk isnt tremendous. Sterile abscess and cellulitus. It burns like a mofo. But some of like pain....lol. When pinning though as it can hinder heath and gym time, i go to the easiest route. If youre fighting multiple fronts it kinda sucks
IM injections also come with the same risk of cellulitis/abscess formation. It's not due to the depth of injection, it's do to contamination.
Ever heard of a sterile absess? Obviously not and subq large amounts of oil have a much higher affinity for cellulitis/absess/infections. So when I got a sterile absess from my doctor prescribed watson, was it contaminated?
damn that sucks mans, sorry to hear that.
Yeah I am not going to ever do sub q myself and if I want really stable blood level, like super stable, I’d just do small injections very frequently of something with a long ester. www.Steroidplotter.com shows this in action
Appreciate that man. Again, I'll be doing sc everyday regardless of ester. I'm guessing I'll just go with Test E since itll require that lowest volume/injection.
To follow up, based on my cycle history, should I stick around 350-400mg/wk or bump to 450-500mg/wk? Since I'll be adding in an agent on the backend im wondering if I should play it more conservative with the dosage
Yea I would say E/C would be better since it’s lower volume but idk I’ve never done it
That depends on your growth from cycle to cycle, like have you still been able to grow on the dose? If you’re still growing then don’t up it
I felt like eventually hit a plateau at 250mg/wk but I was also trying to maintain weight at the end for a powerlifting meet. Strength was still increasing. With that said, the last 3-4 weeks I was at 400mg/wk and growth/strength were very significant.
So taking away from that and what you said, I know I could do well on 350-400mg/wk but since I'm adding compounds at the backend should this change my test dosage?
Yeah 350 is enough and then the oral should keep it going, just make sure you keep up on bloods
Also any advice on anavar dosage?
Sounds good brotha and 100%. Already have a site I use for ordering bloods. Going to be spending extra this time on the Liquid chromatography–mass spectrometry (LC/MS-MS) techniques for Test/Estradiol to ensure my values are precise and accurate.