+ 2 EQ crashed my E2!
Posting this to hopefully help others. Did my first cycle of EQ. I aromatize VERY heavily and decided to only use about 200 mg a week of Test E (I say about because I dosed it 100 mg twice a week but one week I only did one shot, so less than 200 mg was in my system at time of labs) and I wanted to try EQ in the “sweet spot” of 600-800mgs a week, but I know it takes awhile to kick in so I wanted to “frontload” for the first 4 weeks and took 500 mgs of EQ every Sunday and Wednesday, so about 1000 mg a week, besides the week I missed my test shot I also missed the EQ. Never the less there was still a LOT of EQ in my system and probably about 150 mgs worth a week of test E. (TRT amount)
Now that I got my cycle out of the way I want to say that I did not use a single dose of AI! Within a week or two I felt absolutely horrible! My anxiety was through the roof! Had no energy, was depressed, NO sex drive, very irritable and it was really bad. I started having pain in my shoulder and again just felt horrible. I tried to stick it out for a few weeks before I did some research and read that for some people* maybe not everyone, EQ acts as an aromatize inhibitor and crushes Estradiol! I decided to get blood work after about 4 weeks of using EQ and to my surprise these were my results:
Total testosterone: 706 (range is 250-1100 ng/dL)
Free testosterone: 211.1 ( range is 35-155 pg/ml)
Estradiol, ultrasensitive LC/MS: 4
These results shocked me! No wonder why I felt absolutely horrible!! My E2 was at 4! Clearly for me, can’t speak for others, but for me EQ crushes my Estradiol. It has been said in the past that EQ aromatizes about 50% what test does and clearing (for me*) that is not true. Running about 150 mgs a week of test and having 706 total test and 211.1 free test would have my E2 in range or slightly high considering the rate I convert test to estrogen, however using absolutely no aromatize inhibitors my E2 was crushed.
Guys, I cannot stress how important bloodwork is! For my it does not matter how big or lean or strong I am if I feel absolutely horrible with insane anxiety, joint pain, depression, and no sex drive.... quality of life is more important!
For me* EQ clearly does not aromatize at half the rate of Test otherwise my E2 on 150ish mg of test and 1000ish mgs of EQ would have my E2 high, not almost non existent at 4!!!!
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If u did run 1:1 Ratio od test to EQ let say 400 test 400 eq i think you wouldnt crashed your estrogen. No wonder you chrashed if you run 200 test and 800 eq
Interesting. I’m generally a high aromatizer but haven’t had issues with EQ at 500mg/wk, not when in combo with 250mg each of test E and deca, plus 50mg/day of proviron. For me the proviron and EQ combined to control my E2 nicely without the need for an AI but without killing it which was great. The only time I used Aromasin on that cycle was at the ten-twelve week point where I did a mini blast of HCG. I did of course use Caber on that that cycle though as a safety against prolactin issues.
Dbol could be a "quick fix" to get me some needed e2. Perhaps I can stack 20mg dbol/20mg Tbol
the only other way I know to get my e2 out of the toilet is to run more test cyp & less EQ.
guys warned me about running stronger AIs, "it will stomp down your estrogen and fuck up your gains".
Damn shame, im gonna see how these next few weeks go.
I did have a Q for the OP, besides your cycle being an emotional hell- did you make exceptional gains or was it just a disaster?
I wish I had seen this before I started my EQ cycle. Cycle is nearly identical to the one above and what the OP said I have experienced early on in my cycle, going to get bloods this week to confirm what I already know: my e1 is through the roof, my e2 is in the toilet.
this explains the depression & anxiety. I don't blame EQ, I ran a freaking AI with this shit!
The dude on biggerplates bigger bbw dates, posted a video, i'll repost one the guy's actually video here-
https://youtu.be/5QgKcKjvyUE
cliff notes, his experience was the same to pretty much everyone in this thread. So WOW.
On my Prop and Tbol cycle (remember tbol- it never amortizes, ever! ever lol!) my E2 actually shot way up on prop, running a useless amount of 12.5mg Stane E3D. So that's when I learned always run an AI.
I was today's years old when I learned- don't run an AI on EQ or you feel like shit. LOL, wtf.
Thinking of running Dbol at this point, with no AI to get some e2 back but that's a short term fix.
Yup EQ metabolites into an AI after a while.
Minetsame,it crushed my E2 too at 700mg/w
RustyhookerYes, it will do that. It has a mild conversion to an ai.
Thats a mega high eq dose too imo. Could have ran it just like 600eq...300test. Test week 6 and see hiw its going on bloods
I run those number but in reverse and with 300 NPP added, shits awesome, didn’t even run Arimidex with it
RustyhookerI do enjoy npp!! Tried several variations and happy each time.
Same happened with me man. Except my Estro was undetectable
AnonInteresting, I wonder how you would react if you were taking 500, 1000, 1500 mg/week of test. It would be interesting to see if the effect would diminish a substantial amount or not.
PcushionHe could probably compensate and run the EQ comfortably but it would be a lot of leg work and most guys aren’t 100% committed already.
PcushionEq has a metabolite that’s a known AI most guys convert very little, and a select few guys convert a lot. “Dfromphilly” can share his experiences with eq. He can run unlimited test with very little eq and still bottom his E2.
is this the same type of mechanism that masteron and primo have at reducing E2 for some people?
PcushionPrimo doesn’t aromatize, but outside of that it doesn’t possess and anti estrogenic properties.
Masteron also doesn’t aromatize, and we do not have any medical proof explaining how mast actually works. I believe masteron interacts with the E2 receptor, but who knows. Hey do know that if your running reall mast you will rebound when you come off...
1,4 dienedione (the metabolite found in Eq) is an AI who’s mechanism of action is similar to exemestane but much weaker. This metabolite is a suicidal inhibitor so rebound shouldn’t be a problem for those using it in its raw form.
Mast inhibits estrogens production.
Knocks out cell lines early before formations occur therefore unable to fuck with receptors or enzymes.
Dont forget it was designed for the treatment of breast cancer.
Studies of late are showing that they could also be altered with different dna pathways and structures to attack other forms of cancer in other areas of the body in the same ways.
I know that everytime I run primo my bloods show my e2 going down a fair amount(1/3). I read this quite often, I dont understand the mechanisms but i think there is something to it.
there is always the possibility that my primo was actually masteron.(I trust the source it was from, but I didnt test it).
Basically, what I've learned is everyone's body acts a bit different on all the dhts. I think next time I run primo or mast I will bump my trt dose up to help with my e2. I've been thinking about posting baseline bloods before trt, after trt and trt on primo and letting the forum recommend a cycle for me. I would love to log a cycle.
PcushionThat’s interesting brother. Your spot on everyone is different. I stay on primo year round and it doesn’t possess any anti estrogenic in me at least. For me Primo=poor mans growth hormone.
https://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/anabolic-steroids/primobolan-wh...
I'm assuming you know this thread?
Also how would you know if your on it year round? Lol
PcushionI have seen that thread before brother, but thank you.
I know I am running primobolan year round for three reasons.
1. I have tested myself for AAS and two times and failed for primo both times
2. October 2019 I sent a sample off for testing
3. I deal with a very reliable source and they offered lab reports that confirmed everything I knew already knew.
More plates does a good video on this, I am about to start EQ cycle as well and going to see how it goes with no AI initially.
https://youtu.be/heSPrS5mAGk
Eq will give you anxiety after a while because it depletes the GABA in your brain. Supplement with GABA and your anxiety should be non existent unless you have it naturally. I have no anxiety on it right now week 8 using GABA for the last 2 weeks
I find it hard to believe EQ " Crushed" your E2 .
Are we sure this whole thing about EQ " Crushing " E2 is not just some Bro Science ?
It did the same to me man when I ran EQ. My Estro was undetectable. Sucked. Never running again
That was not the case with me bro.
But everyone is different.
Yea. I heard it’s not all that common but it does happen. Sucks I was one of them
PcushionThe culprit metabolite is very real it’s 1,4 dienedione. Now majority of the time there is more going on than this metabolite. Not saying that is the case the OP but majority of the time there is more than this at play.
I just provided blood work lol. For me, it crushed my E2...I aromatize very easily and clearly an ultra sensitive E2 level of 4 is crushed... a test level of 700 with free test at 211 would have E2 in range and for me probably high given how easily I convert. To have it at 4 is almost non existent lol
That is why i stopped all AI while on 400mg/wk of EQ. No sides what you have but see no need yet for AI until i see bloodwork. On week 9 and i would know if i crashed. I know it only effects a small few this way
Clear and detailed personal findings backed with bloods. Great work. Dust down, and get right back after it pal.