edit: this should be called "AAS vs PH" whats better and why?
Ok im going to try and be as nice as i possibly can here. a friend i help with TRT (thanks to this site) approached me about a friend of his that uses "steroids" and is "clueless on PCT". So I had a brief conversation with him, seemed to know a little... my first clue should have been when he mentioned he had a few "HDROL cycles under my belt". I thought, "never heard of that one..."
This is what he sent me. Forgive me if i am way off base here but it seems the lad is a victim of too much money to spend, too many hours looking at websites trying to figure out how to get bigger, and TONS of misinformation.
Except for a few things that i DO recognize, it sounds like he is on nothing but well-marketed supplements from "steroid" websites. And he is worried about PCT? I know some of these places sell things called "NOVADEX" (i did not misspell that) and other PCT sounding names. This is ridiculous right? What is this kid getting into? Can it make him sick or is he just wasting his money... or both?
Both sides of the argument are welcome. I want to know your opinions on this. Thanks.
I have three short/light cycles of hdrol under my belt.
This is what im Thinking ......
-Havoc -30/40/40/40/40
-Liv 52 -preloaded for one week then through cycle .
-CEL cycle assist -Pre load one week then through pct.
-Anamal packs been on for a while. Continue through pct.
-Fish oil -already on. continue though pctPct ....
-Redefine nutrition pct black
-Drivensports lean extreme
-Redefinenutrition pure test
-Size on post workout
-serm ?????? Need idea on what and where to buy???? Also how and when to dose.going for a recomp.....
-weights 5 days a week.
-light cardio 2-3 days.
-high protein diet dialed in.
+400/+700 cals over maintenance through cycle then back down to maintenance for pctShould i add another ph to the havoc? 11oxo, furuza or bold?
I feel pretty comfortable with the cycle part but super lost on the pct. Hdrol's
very mild and I've always just used otc pct with no sides and easy recover.Goal is to loose 2-3% bf and add 6-10 lbs muscle
Stats/ experience
5'10"
200lbs
13-14%bf
28 year old
Been steady in the gym over six years. started at around 135lbs at 8-10% bf 6
years ago
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my natty test levels was 640, i did a PH, 30 days worth, and the PH PCT , my test levels dropped to 140, took 5 months to come back, for a little while i had trouble with sex. not so fun so I absolutely advocate against them.
i know some are good, but not worth the trouble IMHO
The cycle and PCT he has laid out are good ones for that PH and if he is a responder to epi he should have some good results. I have ran a very similar cycle except I included Nolva for a SERM. If he has money to burn for test boosters and what not go ahead and use them. It can't hurt. Actual SERMs are so easy to get that I think it would be foolish to attempt any PH cycle without one. Don't just rely on the OTC stuff. Better safe than sorry so get some real Nolva.
I'm not an expert by any means but I'm very informed when it comes to ph (designer steroids). You or your friend should check out prohormoneforum.com, it's a very informative site and I believe it's Patrick Arnold's and (any ph created he probably had something to do with it) they have ph and aas sections and you can learn about any ph and otc pct or ai and anything steroids related. I believe there is a place for both ph and aas (most ph are aas anyway) and I mix them and get great results. IMHO ph are a great stepping stone to the real deal. A 5-6 week cycle of epi can yield 5-15 lbs depending on goals and in my opinion his pct and on cycle support are pretty much spot on. Yes a serm would help but epi is still considered a mild ph and he would recovery just fine. There is a lot of good otc pct and other support items available now. I know that not only are there good ai supplements but now a prolactine blocker is out there. These companies walk a fine line of legal or not and as someone else said nolvadex xt actually had nolva in it. I mean they created the strongest oral ever (SD) and sold it legally even though it was a STEROID! People are still gonna hate but some people are stubborn and "it's my way or the highway " bs attitude but check out the site, great info there. And definitely read Patrick's forum.
the old nolvadex xt acutally contained tamoxifen. They did a re-call, and the new one is supposed to not have it.
best thing to do is encourage him to get bloods to be safe.
Havoc actually produces pretty good gains believe it or not. I would put it right behind superdrol. It actually has a pretty good record of reducing gyno as well. Serm is needed considering this is a stronger ph of the sort.
On a good diet Epi can produce a 10-20 pound gain in 1 months time period.
Hdrol is the ph to tbol. It only coverts to tbol at around 5%. The havoc is an actual orally active designer steroid with results similar to var. Both of these compounds are methylated so there could be some hepa toxicity issues. The pct black revolution has Aromasin in it so it will be effective in pct but won't obviously work alone for pct. The rest of the stuff is test boosters and cycle support supps I believe. There must be a SERM included as both compounds will lead to shutdown. All in all it looks like a well thought out ph cycle....if you like ph.
Epistane (havoc) was manufactured by the japanese as a suicide estrogen. Im pretty sure it's basically a pro hormone with anti estrogen and anabolic potentials. Ph's are dirty.
mr127superdeeoh no...the only good thing that prohormones got me was doctor prescribed trt at the age of 19 lol
mr127superdeeand havoc was actually one of these castrations in a pill i used
What's wrong with this is he's missing some of dat dere cell-tech in his sweet stack.