-1 TRT, shoulder problems, considering NPP
I'm 45, 5' 10" 200lbs, getting leaner slowly. Trainer at the gym said I'm 15% bf the other day with his calipers. I don't know. Seems reasonable based on the mirror. I've been on trt for about 2 years. I get the test cyp from the pharmacy. Currently I inject 110mg e3d. That's 256mg/wk. My shoulders are feeling old. I've been working out for 37 years now. I read a great sticky post on NPP, but I didn't want to hijack it.
My question is, if I add some NPP to my protocol, how much is a good idea? I'm thinking 100mg e3d based on what I read. Also, is the injection spot important? I saw something about the joints near injection feeling great. If so, it's delts all day for me. To bad I can't inject my knee. Plus I have a trashed hip. Maybe I could add it to bathwater, that'd just about cover all my aches.
Seriously though, can I get some feedback from folks with experience?
Are there any different ancillaries needed with it? I'm thinking not at that low dose. I actually have a bunch of caber around but I doubt that's necessary.
Thanks in advance guys.
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First of all adding npp to this will only mask the issue with the shoulder ... the injury will still be there and you could poss injur it further due to the feeling npp fixed it...it's not a magic drug that will fix joint problems
If you seriously have a doctor that is prescribing you over 250 mg a week for trt then I would be looking for a new doctor. He either doesn't know what the hell he is doing or is completely negligent to your health.
I can understand why NPP may be attractive to you but I would refrain from it. The reason being, it could give you a false sense of security and you may push too hard too soon and make things much worse.
I have been in your position, I went from standing over head pressing body weight for reps and multiple sets and got injured to the point that I couldn't even press just the bar for a single rep without being in extreme pain. What worked for me was starting with 30 or 35 pound bar and doing 3-4 sets of 20-25 reps. Once I could get perfect form and complete all the reps without being in pain, I would increase 2.5 pounds and continue on. I would do this every single time I went to the gym, no matter what muscle I was going to hit.
I would suggest trying something similar and progressing very slowly. Focus on form and refrain from letting your ego get in the way and push too hard and too heavy.
I wish you the best of luck, I know it can be a frustrating process to heal PROPERLY.
I probably should go find a different doctor really. I decided to going to cut down to 175mg per week and see how the test comes out after 2 weeks of that. That's half way between where I was and where I am now so I'm guessing at that.
Yes, thanks. Based on responses I have decided not to try NPP. That's why I asked. Thanks. I have received several good links to stretches and exercises I'm hoping will help.
NotNatural23NPP might help but if it is torn then it wont I know cause I have a torn labrum and nothing will heal it. maybe PRP and stem cell therapy will but I can't afford that. Because if u have a tear then surgery is the only way or above stem cell therapy and PRP. You could try rotator cuff exercises and PT and if that doesn't help then you are going to have to go under. but first thing you need to do is GET an MRI done to see what the problem is.
RustyhookerSo given your stats.... you're on a full time cycle. Whats the payoff? Trt isnt that high. Whats your goal?
Gym routine being modified would be my first start. Volume over pounds.
Npp might mask issues as giardap stated. Cortisone is a bandaid and harsh.
Yes, I agree, thanks for the input. I just switched to that dose. I'm going to get a test in the next week or so and adjust down until I'm in a good range. I was at 100mg/week until recently. My doctor suggested 200mg/week because I was still low for some reason. I think most likely because of how he had me time my test in the dip before a shot. I'm still trying to work it out.
I would like to know how he get into TRT ?
I had a lot of trouble with fatigue a few years back. My doctor ran several sets of tests. My total testosterone came back in the 280's twice. I started getting shots then. The routine (1 200mg then eventually 1 400mg shot every 28 days) the doctor gave me probably made it even worse at parts of the month. Last December I started doing the shots at home so I could split them up more. That was better, but my insurance doesn't cover home shots. I'd rather pay cash and not get messed up than free shots that are done wrong. About 6 weeks ago he moved me to 200mg/ week because I tested below 300 again. I tried to get the exact # but the patient portal system is down. I plan to get some of my blood work off there when it's working again so I can get some help from experienced people here. It doesn't make sense to me that I'd be so low on test cyp from the pharmacy.
Best advice I've heard in awhile. Volume trumps weight for the older lifter. That's what the mirror tells me. Free weights are also better. Keeps you in your natural movement. I see to many older guys on machines. They just don't work as well.
I agree with that. I do use mostly free weights as I work out at home. I have been using light weight, higher reps for a long time. I live pretty far from town so I haven't been a regular at a gym for several years.
RustyhookerI used to go heavy as possible and strength was great! But for me, if I'm not hitting volume im strong but not getting thicker. And as i got older, sore joints isn't fun.
I went and seen a sports medicine dr awhile back really helped with my shoulders gave me a shot of corticosteroids directly in the cuff.
If i were to reccomend a nadrolone which im not id say go with Deca not npp thats just me less pinning ive read ncbi studies saying theres no healing effect to nandrolone on injuries like rotater cuff and that it actually will cause inflimation but id have to disagree i believe it can rebuild/strengthen cartilidge.
With deca on trt you could even pin once every two weeks and be fine
"My next post should probably be about how to get the right blood test myself. I actually searched for hours on that and didn't get clear on where to go or what to ask. As many different opinions as articles I read. I'm sure it's here somewhere, but it should be a sticky at the top if you ask me. I have my labs for many years in a file cabinet, but they test about everything but what I'm interested in."
I have read the blood work bible post. I don't mean to say I don't see where to see what all the results mean. I even have a degree in biology. What I mean is I don't know how to get the test short of picking a random lab and saying "Hi, ok on trt and my doctor is an idiot, can you test my blood now. Thanks."
I guess I'll start a different post for this maybe since I'm way off topic. Hijacking my own thread at least.
Nand will mask your problems while you destroy your shoulders
Learn upper thoracic stability and correct muscle engagement to isolate muscles and prevent shoulder damage
Do yourself a favour and dont mask your problems while you destroy your shoulders
Ok. Good advice. I'm going to not use it right now. Thanks. That's the kind of knowledge I was looking for.
There is a video on YouTube by Jeff cavalier that shows exactly that.I suck at copy paste but it's very easy to find.
He's where I got this from and has helped
https://www.eroids.com/forum/training-nutrition-diet/workout-exercise/sh...
I love that guy!
No homo
Ok. Thanks.
He's an actual doctor and knows his shit!He's not very big but walks around at about seven percent bf.he offers a lot of good info and for free.Cant beat that!
Size doesn't bother him either. One video he picked 500 on deadlift. He's 175 lbs.
What are your thoughts on also adding bpc 157 and tb500 to your " upper thoracic stability and correct muscle engagement to isolate muscles and prevent shoulder damage " im not a dr and the studys on humans are limited but i have used them both extensivly with very good results and the studys on animals show they actually help repair not just mask the problems ??? And seem to be much safer than cortisone shots
I think, once the form is corrected which sorts 90% of the issue, that those compound ds are worthy of exploration.
Person ally I haven't used either but have been researching both.
My situition is that I tore my rotator in 3 spots, one of them was a 2nd tear. I eventually figure how to correct form/posture and have never had issues even when taking the 50kgs dbs for a ride on shoulders press day. But even still they are delicate. So through research I'm going to try gh with bp157
I think gh at the right dose has the best potential but bp157 really seems to do so ethical g for connective tissue.
However, I'm a form believer of not medicating to deal with symptoms. Gotta heal then fix mobility issues and form and then take a look to compound ds etc where applicable
I totally agree fix the problem as natural as possible then if needed medicate but if to medicate use the medication to fix the issue not just mask it correct??
Exactly!
None of us is immune to the ego unfortunately. Once you mask a shoulder issue with Nand, the old ego can kick up a gear and before long we can end up in a worse position. Ultimately that's what I did to myself over time.
I take a similar view lately to treating on-cycle sides. I know that might sound wishy washy considering our usage of AAS but time makes fools of us all in the end, so I'm trying to hit the pause button a little.
That said, I've done a significant amount of research on Nand recently and it's very clear in some of the clinical studies that it can increase elements of LBM other than actual muscle. So the speculation is that would include things like collagen and connective tissues. So there is still weight behind a therapeutic value with Nand, but let's face facts, anyone posting the OPs question (been there myself!) is not aiming for rehab, but rather; seeking to improve gym performance. We just cannot justify it's use in that context, in my opinion
Yes. I agree with you on the not masking it part. I'm actually trying to heal it. I don't think most of the damage is from the gym. I do a lot of hard work because I like building things. I'd say moving heavy metal in the welding shop and hard core gardening in the desert over many years. A calichi bar is a bitch and if you don't know what that is then good for you. I don't want to do surgery on my shoulders if possible. Maybe NPP isn't the thing I need. I wouldn't be against trying a little a round or 2 if it has a chance of helping me heal. I'm researching other things too.
Welding and growing stuff. My kinda man lol (no homo)
Caliche, no, but I know the pain of torn caluses from clearing rocks and occasional boulders when preparing mountainside plots for tillage. Tough but worth it after a year!
Yeah cool. I'm actually planting a vineyard on my own. 1,200 holes in the desert. If you want to know what stupid is, that's about it. I should probably just hire help. I was thinking it would get me in shape. It is, but it's also breaking me. What doesn't kill you...
If it's simply grinding and you've seen the doc and they've taken scans and say nothing is torn then the npp would help. But if you have torn tissues the npp will only make you think it's better and make you more likely to re-injure yourself. If that's the case peptides, or hgh would help somewhat with healing the torn tissue.
Good luck brother
It's been an issue for at least a decade. It's not something I just hurt. It's not that kind of sharp pain like something is torn. It's more like a resistance to moving well with a feeling like there's sand in there. Sore at night when I sleep on it. It's pretty even on both sides. Several medical professionals of different specialties have checked it out. It actually doesn't hurt worse when I'm working out or just working hard. It's really a constant ache/pain all the time. Sure, heavy stuff makes it more sore later or the next day, but not a whole lot. Ice helps.
I am a little confused on this. If you do trt 110 e3d. Mon 110 thurs 110 sun 110 equals 330mg ew wich is pretty high trt from what i read. Im thinking you get blood work done regularly? Do you take a anti-estro? You can dry out from to much. Npp i would say 150 ew 50mg x 3 to help but you may end up worse afterwards. It dont matter where you inject as long as it is in a muscle. Rotate so you dont get a abscess not to localize it.
Yes, as others mentioned, it's every 3 days, which is 2.33 pins a week. I don't have a specific reason I guess. I like pinning in the morning. I had to chose every 3 or every 4 or alternating which seems hard to track. This way I just do it on all dates that are multiples of 3. I don't think of what day of the week.
Like:
Sept 3rd, 6th, 9th .... 30th then back to Oct 3rd, 6th...
Some months there's a 4 day gap when there are 31 days. I don't think it matters much.
It is a high trt dose. If my blood work comes back and I'm not happy with it, I'll probably switch to e4d which would be 192/wk. E5d would be 154. I run it high and more frequent for now because at 100/wk I kept testing low. One test 7 days after the last pin was below 300. That's when he upped me to 200mg/week (which he still tells me to take as 400mg every 14 days. I pin myself so f what he has to say about that.) I've read some people process it faster. Also, here's a fun stat. I've been on trt for 2 years and I have never had my free test or estrogen checked. My doctor says that's not something they normally do. Apparently even if you ask. WTF is that? This is an actual doctor's office, not a aging or men's health clinic. I had to go to 3 doctors over about 4 years to even get the script. The first 2 wouldn't even test my testosterone. They said, you're too big to have low test. Idiots.
My next post should probably be about how to get the right blood test myself. I actually searched for hours on that and didn't get clear on where to go or what to ask. As many different opinions as articles I read. I'm sure it's here somewhere, but it should be a sticky at the top if you ask me. I have my labs for many years in a file cabinet, but they test about everything but what I'm interested in.
Gotcha. I never have been on trt before ao im learning as i go. I have run cycles eod with short esters of npp and prop and love them. Just trying to learn. I gimuess i always think by the week.
e3d = Mon, Thurs, Sun, Wed, Sat, Tues, Fri then Mon, Thurs, Sun, .........
It is every 3 days, NOT 3 times a week.
So what you think about the npp?
I hope you dont put cycles together using your method of weekly doses. Its 256 as stated.
Just asking a question mr.cobler. when using long ester you can inject twice a week. It does not need to be e3d but i was wondering how he got 256 ew.
I've never used npp or any nandrolone foe that matter but I'm gonna throw in my .02 anyway. I dont think its ever a good idea to mask an injury or soreness/pain with drugs. Thats all that npp will do. Are you planning on using it forever? And 45 is still young in the grand sceme. What have you tried to relieve the shoulder issues? I myself suffer from fucked up shoulders and I do a stretch where I lay on a foam roller and put my arms over my head and grab a bar. Do this 3 times about 1 min each time. Huge help. That may not be for you but there has to be something better than using a drug indefinitely.
I have a foam roller too. I actually see a chiropractor regularly, I have a very experienced myotherapist/massage therapist, I even go to yoga twice a week (just shoot me). I have a stretching routine that makes it better. I have some mildish grinding/friction in there. Really it goes up and down. I don't have a specific traumatic injury, mostly overuse I think.
Yup, I hear that. Ive been toying with getting into yoga. Why not? I need all the help I can get. My muscles have always been tight and if that helps, why wouldnt I do it. Just need to stop being lazy and get there.
Im trying to find a pic or video.of what this stretch is. It really has mafe a significant difference in my ability to train.
Here we go.
https://youtu.be/R00biDnraeQ
Ok. I watched it. I'll try it out. That first one is like child's pose inverted. I shouldn't know that yet somehow I do. That's supposed to be the easiest most comfortable position. For me it's a bit like eating broken glass. Hopefully the roller version will be better.
Perhaps it will help, maybe not. It really made a world of difference for me. The stretch it provides me is very deep and slightly painful but not in a bad way. (Hope that makes sense) but obviously dont do it if it hurts and its more than stretcging pain. Ive been putting 25lb plates on the bar so its a little higher and that helps a lot. Wheb you exit the stretch go SLOW. I push the bar away instead of moving my arms the slowly bring them together then down. Let me know if you do it and it helps. Good luck with everything either way
100mg e3d sounds way over kill.
You're trying to lube your joints not do a continuous cycle.
I meant to say 100mg a week split up to e3d. I didn't say it right.
I've even heard as low as 50mg a week can help joints. I'll have to see how it is for me. If I do try it I'll probably start low. That's generally my plan for everything.
Also I meant to ask about cycling. Like on for a few weeks off for a few weeks. How long would the benifits last generally?
trenandmenthave you thought off peptides ? tb500 bp157 especially tb500 has been used on racehorses and greyhounds for years.they are waterbased and you could pin your knee and shoulder easy.go read upon them see what you think.these have good effect spot injecting and you wont need any a/i.
I'll reasearch it. Thanks.
trenandmentits worth a look .good luck .