+ 1 Questions from a noob
First I know I did a few things wrong but here goes.
17 years ago I did a few cycles with amazing results (Back when Quality Vet was a good brand).
I moved and could never find a source then lost motivation and have up. Well I hated how pudgy I got and met a guy who after some pressing agreed he could get me injectables.
For 2 weeks I have been on Test Cypionate and Deca
I'm splitting my doses to twice a week simply for comfort of injection.
Every place I have injected over the past 2 weeks still hurts to this day.
New needles and syringes every time
Clean clean and clean area, myself and site location
Have red areas 2 inches or less raised and hot. Hard lumps at each spot under the skin. The older the spot the smaller it is.
Yesterday my left leg started cramping and by the end of the day I couldn't even raise it to walk up stairs and the pain is like a knife on the inside of my thigh (injected on the outside). This continued most of the day today then started to ease up and now it still hurts but I can move my leg much further before I feel the sharp pain.
Every spot looks and feels like a bee sting and itches like the worst mosquito bite ever.
The vials were sealed
The label looks like shit and was kinda sticky
No batch # or expiration date
Looks really sketch
Yes I know RED FLAGS all over
However
Lost 2 inches in the waist
Gained 1 inch in biceps
Energy like you wouldn't believe
Random zits here and there
And already slightly puffy nips
Have added 70 lbs in plates on bench
Joints feel like im 20 again
The list goes on
All in 2 WEEKS!
Now side effects vs reward I have decided this stuff is no good for me (you only live once) and am asking 2 things....
1. Edit I broke the first rule of fight club. Deleted my question so I don't get bannedEdit
2. Wtf can I do to clear these spots up / possibly speed up the healing process?
When I did this in the past i was a little sore but powered through it.... this is like I was hit by a car (and yes I personally know what that feels like and this is not far off). I am not trying to knock a brand or anything I just am hoping for some guidance if possible.
Thanks!
And again, yes..... I did a few things wrong. Please don't beat the point to death.
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So I'm certain what happened now.
I got an abscess in my leg.
Somehow my left leg was able to heal itself within a few days but my right became significantly worse this evening and I went to the doc.
My leg was full of puss and infection was spreading (visible on ultrasound)
Not a fun experience but already feeling better. Hurts like hell but at least now I know why.
So if anyone reads this over the next days, weeks, months or years.... learn from my mistakes.
I will probably make a new post eventually about the experience including pics, symptoms etc.... but to anyone looking to do this without up to date first hand knowledge on the best practices, gear, administering equipment etc.... set your pride aside and ask this community!
Will some give you shit? Yes.... is that necessary? Really...... yes but you WILL get answers worth GOLD
Without the people here I fear I would have caused even more damage.
So everyone, Thank you!
Now to get to healing and EDUCATING MYSELF
Sounds like it was probably made with too much of a certain solvent or something that you don't react well too. You can try to mix it with a sterile carrier oil to dilute it somewhat, but your best option is to trash it and replace it with someone from the top 10 list here. Do you have your PCT lined up and on hand? Test cyp and Deca shouldn't be beating you up this bad. They are typically pretty easy when it comes to PIP.
I don't have pct on hand no. Was planning on sourcing during cycle like a moron.
This was Depo Test and Deca
I have a vile of Test C of a brand that looks legit with batch# and exp date.
I set aside the vials that were bugging me out and pulled from the Test C today.
What a difference! The two I were using is like pulling / pushing honey through the barrel and this was like water.
I tasted the Test C and flavor memory hit like 17 years ago was yesterday (This did not happen with the other gear).
I know pulling from another vile might not be the best move however I'm low dosing the Test C (150 MG / Week) and want to get the continued gains that may still be there over the next 1-3 weeks from the deca. Just stopping cold turkey I know from the past will mess with me mentally and without PCT on hand I can dial it down even more til it gets here.
Or if it arrives quick I can ramp it up to 300 till its gone :-P
Yaa..... next cycle I need better planning and guidance.
I am trying to figure out this bitcoin thing (credit card would be so much simpler).... im not super computer savy but will get pct asap.
I got my hands on some Methylprednisolone and over the next 6 days I hope to see this inflammation go away.
The spots spread out a bit and tho it sucks at times Tylenol and Motrin help keep the discomfort at bay. I found myself jogging today when things got busy and I had a bunch going on pain free (thank God) and I'm on the mend.
The advice has been stellar and I plan on starting a different thread with my plans for another cycle soon looking for advice from the veterans here. And yes...... I will follow it!
Sounds like a solid plan to save yourself from a bad situation. Just ration the Cyp until you have your PCT products so you can make a clean jump from gear to PCT without a lag time where your test.I made a similar mistake in the past and had to go off clod turkey for two weeks waiting on PCT to arrive and it was hell, so I'm not going to beat you up over that. I will keep an eye out for your next thread and give any advice you may need. Feel free to shoot my a FR if you would like to discuss your next cycle and strategies/planning.
I hear you bro. Everyone makes mistakes. If I had to guess I would say that the gear was cooked with too much BA. I got a few vials once with too much BA and I was in your boat. You can add sterile grape seed oil to your pins and that will dilute the BA and make it bearable.
If you don't want to do crypto check some of the reputable suppliers here for PCT. Some still take more traditional was of donation transfer.
Are you able to use the Cyp to keep you from crashing before you have PCT products?
As long as I don't have a bad reaction to it ya. New vial and if I stick at 150 / week I'm good for 10 weeks. Should be able to have pct here before then.
Would rather be at 300 for 5 tho. Still I should be able to get things here by then I would think.
I hear you. Primary concern is to at least be able to mimic your natural test levels, so be sure to ration carefully until PCT arrives. Never know how long things will take to arrive with COVID.
Ok so it happened again....
Using the test c (different gear than before) in my right outer thigh.
Injected tues
Felt great
Pin, pull on plunger (no blood), slowly inject (NO PIP AT ALL) deep into muscle (1/2 - 3/4 inch)
Blasted legs on Wed
Thurs start feeling sore
Now I can't walk Friday evening (been limping all day)
Outer right thigh swollen and hurts like hell when I move it. Pain free leg up chilling on the bed (now). If I even try to reposition its like a knife in my leg.
My left leg from last weekends pain is 100%
Any site I inject into a fat layer since the start of this is 100% (lump for 2 days then good to go other than last weekends breakout of red itchy spots)
This is brutal... I am supposed to inject again today and do legs again and I'm stuck on my back lol.
Tempted to just grab a pudgy spot and inject there from now on.
Thoughts?....
Would love some feedback.
Why not pin after your leg workout or work out another body part when you've just pinned legs?
How much are you pinning?
I thought if I waited 24 hours I would be good to go
Even when I did legs I was not sore at site location during the workout. It all came on slowly.
The test c I have is 150mg / ml
I'm near unable to walk from 0.5 cc in my right outer thigh onset days after injection.
Does the body absorb if I just inject into body fat the same as if i inject into muscle?
The carrier oil dissipates rather quickly, but the test itself, with its long ester, will be there for a week or more.
The body will absorb sub-q injections at roughly the same rate as IM.
1/2cc is a lot for sub-q injections hence the red welts. Try 1/4cc every 3 or 4 days sub-Q if you're thinking of going that route.
150mg/ml is unusual, I would have expected 200mg/ml
What are your other injection spots, all I'm hearing is sub-q and side of leg.
left/right Gluteus maximus
left/right Gluteus medius
left/right Deltoid
left/right Pectoral
left/right Thigh
Left and right pec (no pain)
Left and right delt (no pain)
Fat layer at upper left and right pec (no pain)
1 injection in front of right thigh....ya.... never again
Both injections in outer thighs were the worst of all
2 days later I couldn't walk worth a damn for a day and a half or 2 days. Just started to be able to bend my leg an hour ago. So 300 no weight leg extensions off my bed later it is starting to feel better and can walk again.
deca is 300mg
Depo test is 250mg
Both I set aside thinking possible bad gear when left leg locked up a week ago.
Then used
Test C which is 150mg/ml
Then right leg locked up
Due to my hormones taking a roller coaster ride this week I only added 3-10 lbs to any given exercise and just want to jump back in...
If sub will work then im tempted to go that route. I can break down the injections to every other day and a half (so 4 per week) to get the dose im after if it will cut back on the welts (tho those are manageable in comparison) I have enough in the mid section to work with for a while.
Was hoping to start at 250 test 300 deca for 4 weeks / mid at 400 test 300 deca for 6 weeks / finish at 150 test 40 dbol for 4 weeks then pct
Again this is my first cycle after being off for 17 years so I was not trying to get to crazy off the bat but now the cycle has been interrupted with a single shot of test c and a full skipped injection day.
But due to the slow acting nature of this stuff am I wrong to think this can be salvaged? Was only 2 weeks in when left leg acted up and only used 0.5 cc of test c. I think i should be able to pick up where I left off and just kill it... some small adjustments and I can finish like I planned. Still have weeks to go here.
I'd give your legs a rest for a while. It could be you're irritating a nerve or tendon in the area you're pinning.
Why aren't you pinning your glutes instead? The gluteus medius is a good, easy to reach spot.
and the upper, outer quarter of your ass isn't that difficult to reach.
Hips down I'm skinny (hence me hitting legs super hard so I don't look like a retard). So gluteus medius is not large and is super lean all around. I'm afraid the pain would be that comparable to that of a guy I saw at a gym I used to go to who injected his biceps then immediately went to do curls. That lasted about 2 seconds and the dude was in tears like he had been shot.
Or maybe I'm chicken shit....
As far as my butt goes.. tho I would LOVE to stick myself in the ass (No Homo) I have never been able to do it. Its the one place I wish I could inject into (No Homo) but I'm to this point unable to even partially penetrate (No Homo).
I am willing to do a lot (No Homo) but sticking a needle into my ass I am just unable to do.
You can get by with a 1" needle, the ass is a bigger muscle, and far less veins, tendons and nerves to worry about.
Your call. Put your big boy pants on (or in this case drop them) or keep on doing the same stupid thing. How much worse can it be?
You're also over looking the gluteus medius. Probably one of the easiest places to pin.
Google glute injections, the proper site is not as far back as you'd think.
I will try....
On the note of my legs... i think it's possible I pinned through the Iliotibial band. The swelling in my right thigh is the size of a golf ball. I used heat pads for a couple days and ice today. Still swollen but pain is becoming manageable.
Any experience pinning in / through the Iliotibial band? Would that explain the symptoms?
I really appreciate the information everyone has shared. I'm not trying to be pig headed. I really am listening here (I know many dont).
If you're going through the Iliotibial band (or think you might have) you're pinning way too far to the side.
Envision your upper leg as a 9 square grid.
The top of the leg to the knee divided in thirds. the inside to outside divided in thirds.
You want to pin in the top outside square (furthest from the knee).
Relax the leg.
Pinch as much flesh as you can and pin.
Ya.... I fucked up.
Center mast straight in the side.
I need to study a chart before I pin again.
Not every day I am the proof "comment sense is not common"
Would this explain the symptoms?
Any new thoughts now knowing this?
Just this one... https://www.spotinjections.com/index3.htm
Thanks!
Think its time I read, read and read some more before I continue down this path.
Education is everything. And I failed to properly educate myself having forgotten more than I thought when I jumped back into this.
Truly grateful for all the help from EVERYONE.
Just need to heal up and hit the books (so to speak) and then do this correctly.
I really feel like a tool. But left leg healed up and I believe the right is healing (fairs up by the end of the day and I'm limited in how long I can be on my feet) and I'm going to use the sources here rather than the gear off the street made in a home lab.
Lots of mistakes.... hell even where I pinned. But I would like to think I learned from them.
Thanks again!
This!
Or just stop pinning where it hurts
I don't think that you are injecting deep enough if you are only going 1/2 - 3/4 inch pins. I use 1.5" for glutes and quads. Depending on your bf% and how it is distributed you may be injecting sub-q into fat cells. I have tried that intentionally twice using a half inch pin. Both ended in big, red swollen welts that I eventually had to train.
Are you pins 1/2 - 3/4 inch or are you using a longer pin and estimating that you are getting that deep into the muscle after going through a layer of fat?
The only other time I have ever experienced this was with a batch of gear that the source confirmed was cooked with way too much BA. I still think that is the most likely culprit, but if your using short pins to go into your quads that very well may be the issue.
Also, do you see any solids suspended in the oil? If so they will likely look like small glass shards but it is crashed gear. If you are injecting crashed gear and get some of those solids passing through the pin and in to your muscle it will cause some bitchin PIP.
I've been in similar situations and don't mind helping you troubleshoot if you want to take that rout instead of tossing it.
The pins are longer (1 1/2 inch)
Body fat on my legs is near non existent
Again this shows up 2 days after pinning into muscle.
Is blasting legs 24 hours later playing a part?
I'm kinda aggressive. Leg extensions I do 10 reps but suspend for 5 sec on rep 8 and have someone push down on the weights pretty hard as I lower slow and then again on rep 10. Burns like a sunova.
Talked to my source and he is on exact same gear but 3x what I'm using. Said I could cut with grapeseed oil to try and ease the pain.
He also said all he ever does is into body fat around mid section (what little he has) not into muscle. This guy looks like Arnold @ 22 years old and has been using the same lab for over 20 years.
Gear looks clean through bottle also.
I have injected into body fat with lumps under skin for 2 days experiencing mild to no discomfort other than when everything flared up a week ago and I spent the next several days feeling like I god drunk and made love to a patch of poison ivy. Itched like hell. Still have faint red rash looking spots in site locations tho no longer itches.
Thing is..... I love the gains and feel like superman. Im thinking straight, sleeping better, constantly in a great mood and motivated like never before.
If I inject into body fat does the body absorb it the same way? I can handle the lumps fine I just don't want to be loosing anything in the process.
I found sterile filtered grapeseed oil on Amazon. Should I consider cutting with that? I am told that is in fact the carrier oil used.
Thanks for the help man.... I need it.
Word
PcushionI would find a different brand of gear brother and trash what you got. The knots should go away with time. If they get worse seek medical attention.
UGL quality varies greatly. Labels don't necessarily attest to quality. Each producer has their own recipes they follow. Some labs use higher amount of solvents. I can pretty much guarantee your issue is due to the high amount of solvent being used in the product. You body isn't used to it and it fighting it.
Here are some tips to reduce the inflammation and pain.
Use high quality needles. I only trust an American company that goes by two letters. They make the sharpest needles that don't dull as easily as cheaper brands. Use an 18g to draw contents from vial and swap syringe with a 25g. Keep hand steady when injecting to avoid moving the needle around. This will prevent additional trauma to the muscle. Avoid injecting large amounts of oil into one site. More frequent injections may be necessary. Warm up the injection site prior to injection. Warm up the oil before injecting. You can fill your syringe and place it in a cup of hot water with the needle racing up. Have the plunger pull back a bit to create an air pocket between the oil and needle. Apply pressure for 10 seconds or more to the injection site with your fingers just before injection. Use topical Arnica gel after injection. Use a cold compress afterwards
AnonWarm, unless you want to restrict blood flow and cause the gear to crash in your muscle. Cold and gear don't mix, especially with higher concentrations.
Thank you for correcting me. I sometimes don't fully explain my thought which can cause confusion.
AnonAll good, it's good to see what you know. If something was misinterpreted that's good to know too, just wanted to get a feel for your knowledge base as you've been active lately. It's good to have people here with decent knowledge. There's very few with above average knowledge and they don't contribute as often, so having a good number of people with solid advice is probably the best we can hope for!
I read a lot. I am always Googling things and reading studies. I may not understand everything I am reading but I usually get the gist of it. I enjoy topics on anti-aging, biohacking, HRT, steroids, nutrition and bodybuilding.
You are correct. I didn't mean immediately after injection. The cold compress is if you develop inflammation. Heat won't bring down swelling. Heating pad would be desirable immediately after injection to increase blood circulation and to also help the oil disperse in the muscle.
My inflammation shows 2 days after injection
Itches like crazy and the 1 time after several pinnings gave me so much pain I could hardly walk.
But that time was 24 hours after pinning.
I was supposed to pin today but did not.
You are implying I can lessen the chance of sides if I warm the oil, heat the site and not draw and stick with the same needle?
I'm using a 28g and have a very steady hand. I don't even feel the stick and inject sloooooooow.
I move on with what I have going on and within an hour start lifting.
I experience pip typically 48 hours later and apparently my body decided to all at once give me a 2-6 inch rash at each injection site from the past 2 weeks all at once. And boy do they itch.
Also my entire chest feels like it overnight grew a thin layer of fat under the skin.... and holy hell are my nips sensitive lol
Should have just chewed some d-bol and called it good.
Your body is reacting to the injection two fold. First you traumatized the muscle physically with the insertion of the needle and disbursement of oil. Then you have this foreign chemical substance in your body. Your body is treating it as if you have an infection. It is highly unlikely that you are having an allergic reaction do to the timing of the rashes. You would have had the reaction immediately. This sounds to me to be an immune system issue. Your T Cells are being activated and your immune system is being weakened. You can buy an OTC anti-itch cream. Benadryl will help too. Your body should be adapting to the injections. These symptoms shouldn't continue indefinitely. The nipple sensitivity is concerning. Your estrogen levels may be elevated which is causing gynecomastia. It is hard to say without bloodwork. Everyone's body is different. Internally there are different reactions. I don't personally believe you have contaminated gear. I feel you are very sensitive which is causing the negative sides. You can taper down the dosages and see how your body responds. I would buy some immune boosting supplements and peptide Thymosin Alpha-1. The goal is to boost your immune system.
AnonEverything he said will lessen the chance of PIP, but you need to ditch those vials because whatever is in them is not something your body likes.
And get some blood work done, make sure to include prolactin and estrogen..
That's the answer.
It's gonna keep happening.
OP Make note of solvents and carrier oil keep in mind next time. Not worth it if its that bad. Couple shots per week body would be constantly fighting the inflmation.
Added 70 pounds in 2 weeks to your bench?
Send me a pm so I can get the name of your bathroom dealer. That is cocaine not anabolics.
Seriously though it's the internet and noone knows you so you don't have to exaggerate the weight.
Also you have no idea what you are injecting it could be anything.
Once the red flag went up you STILL bought it and injected it. Now you got issues and come here asking us to help you, do you need someone to call you an idiot? Ok, you are an idiot.
Stop taking it and pct. Best advice you will get. In the future think with the reasoning side of your brain instead of the instant gratification side
Not exaggerating for one and you are correct on everything else.
Truth is I don't know what this is...
Can barely read the labels and looks like out of a bad printer.
But yes many wrong things were done, I was making poor choices and what I did was idiotic.
Now for the fun part.... I started a cycle without pct on hand. Figured I could source and have ready by the end of what was planned to be a 10 week cycle.
Truth is I fucked up. I admit it and yes am asking for help. Hind sight is 20/20 and I was impulsive, careless and overall a fucking moron. Believe me when I say I see this and feel like a fool.
But for the record I'm not a liar and have been honest about everything. If you added 70 lbs to your bench that rapid would you put mystery juice in your barrel? You imply you would..... thats what happened to me. And I'm paying the price. So please forgive my ignorance and inability to change a past decision and if willing to continue to give solid advice you will recieve nothing but gratitude from me!
I sent you a friend request and will pm you pics if you like. So far can't even find it anywhere online but again may be from lack of experience looking.
You gotta think. Always have everything for your cycle before you start. Learn from your mistakes and move on. I'm not beating you up any more than you are doing to yourself
This site has a plethora of useful information. Get some pct and then research like crazy. Things are much different now than they were 17 years ago.
At least he maned up and asked for help. Half these guys would just argue.
Agreed, Glad he owns it. That type of humbleness gets you far.
Yes they are and I'm realizing that rapidly.
Thanks!
Perfect, stay for a while and learn all you can, happy growing!
AnonSomething else worth mentioning is anytime you pin a site that hasn't been used in a very long time it's gonna be a bit painful.
Ya I'm good with that. Just 24 hours after the pin it suddenly felt like I was hit with a sledge hammer.... then it started to get worse.
So I tried a different spot... same or worse
Another... no change
Another (Thursday afternoon) and Friday afternoon I was walking across the yard and bam it was like I was hit by a car in the left leg. Couldn't hardly walk.
Have been resting for 2 days now.
I'm cool with some pain, test flu etc... no pain no gain but this is nuts.
Hell if I felt like I tore every muscle in my body I could take that... this is way different.
I put on heat for an hour and it helped relax the lumps quite a bit (These lumps are way deep and you can grab them with your fingers) and I got even more flexibility back. I will do this every few hours and see how it goes.
And the Tylenol / Motrin helped a lot!
Thanks again for the help!
1.) read the rules & understand them fully!!
The PIP could be a long list of things. It could be your allergic to the carrier oil or it’s over strength(high mg stuff). The oil could be rancid or has high levels of solvents! Improper pinning or just bad quality. Etc, etc, etc! I personally don’t like running gear that gives me PIP. I throw it out or quit using it. Sometimes if I get some pharmacy grade from the doctor I’ll dilute the underground lab gear stuff I have, and that helps sometimes. Be very cautious moving forward! A guy on the forum posted a picture a while ago where they had to cut out and drain a big abscess out of his leg. The guy was laid out big time & had $65,000.00 in med bills. Be responsible & careful & do research on some of the highly respected SRC’s on this site. It scared the shit out of me and was a wake up call. I never experienced any of that in the 90s when I used to get all pharmacy great stuff.
P.S.
If it gets worse run to the doctor man. For myself if it was high milligram gear and gave me a little PIP. I put a heating pad on it at night w/ Ibuprofen until my body got used to it. Trial and error. One time I took some bad stuff and it swelled up my glutes soo much I looked like Kim Kardashian. My girl was laughing at me saying what happened to your ass. It hurt like hell, was red to the touch, and it looked like a shelf! It went away in about a week but I really dodged a bullet. Needless to say I threw all the shit out and never ordered from that store again. Before I threw the stuff out I held it up to the light and I swear to GOD it look like there were a few tiny dust particles or tiny rubber stopper fragments floating in it. I did some research and I heard that the rubber stopper can sometimes get dry from the solvents and break off into the oil. I wasn’t sure what it was but there was tiny fragments almost hard to see floating in the oil.
I don't have the gear in front of me but I believe its 200 mg/ml Test and 250 mg/ml Deca
Dude, Thanks for the input.
Kicking myself for how this went down.
36 hours since I pinned myself last and still sore af. But is thankfully getting better (or at least is less sensitive).
I am done with this batch and hopefully am ready to go again in a month using actual reviewed sources.
Correction
Test 250
Deca 300
1: Go read the site rules, using the search bar. Then come back and tell me what the first rule of Fight club is. I can tell you now, it's that we dont talk about Fight club in public. Catch my drift. No source talk in the open forums. If I'm not mistaken it could get you banned.
2: Isn't against the rules so I'll help. I'd personally stop injecting that batch you received. Use warm compress and clean the areas. If that shit persists broski, hit up the Dr's office.
3: Like I said, use the search bar and do some research on sources by reading their reviews and the "Ask & discuss" page. Good luck.
My mistake!
I kinda screwed the pooch there.
1: "Promoting products or sources, discussing specific brands, labs products or sources in the forums is not allowed!"
My bad...won't happen again
2: Yes I am done with this batch. Was thinking antibiotics may be in order but am not sure.
I was using ice last night to numb the spots lol. Guess I will switch to heat!
The list of things I have done wrong is longer than what I did right.... smfh
3: Will do thank you!
AnonIce is no bueno! It can cause the hormone to crystalize again...