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Axzel69
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-1 Stupid Simple first cycle

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*** Go read the Studies before you down vote me for no reason - Change my mind if you disagree ***

I know there are other guides posted here that cover first cycles but I disagree with some of the info posted, Instead of replying with a laundry list of complains shitting on someone else's work I figured I would just write a guide and explain why I this simple cycle is a good place to start.

So firstly should you do your first cycle?
it's a personal choice, I cant answer that but before you do go get blood work done there are a number of places you can get them done costs like $60 (in the US anyway) well worth it to check health markers.

So my bloodwork looks good, Im a health young adult and ready to start.
Ok. The main compound we will be looking at is Test E (Testosterone Enanthate) or Test C (Testosterone Cypionate) They are for all intensive purposes essentially the same thing, pick one.

Your first cycle is probably going to yield your best results, for this reason and the fact that we are running a lowish dose of Test I suggest going a little longer than most 15-20 weeks That will be exactly 3 or 4 vials of 250mg/ml test pinned 2x per week at 250mg per dose.

AI (aromatase inhibitor)
Do I need an AI?
Probably not but just keep one on hand incase, I suggest getting enough Arimidex to take 1mg EOD if needed.
you can take it if you notice sides or better yet I suggest getting more bloodwork done and knowing for sure...
I advise against taking it preemptively! you will crash your E2 into the ground for no fucking reason, Low E2 sides are A LOT worse than Higher E2.

SERMS for PCT and Gyno
I suggest having Raloxifene or Nolvadex or better yet get both, The reason is that Raloxifene is better for Gyno flair up and Nolvadex is better for PCT...
Nolvadex and Arimidex also dont play well together and the nolvadex will drop the blood level of your Arimidex. read more https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2362190/

for PCT taking the "normal" dosages recommended isn't going to produce any greater results the results at 10mg are the same at 40mg where test production is concerned, it's just going to increase sides, there is no need to frontload Nolva.

PCT should start 5 halflives after your last shot, for Enanthate it's 4.5Days x5 = 22.5 Days (or 3 weeks) You can start PCT earlier but it's probably doing fuck all for you until the test clears your system and stops suppressing your HPTA.

multiple Studies have all come to the same conclusion:
1mg and 5mg per day and found the two lower doses are just as effective as the previous standard of 20mg per day or more.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4053157/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17709798/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12783932/

Orals
I suggest just doing test by it's self, Its fucking strong stuff and there really isnt a need to start stacking shit on your first cycle...
If you MUST have something do a small dose of Anavar (if you know it's legit, its expensive) or Winstrol they are both dry compounds that wont further fuck with your E2.... research that separately I suggest against it.

Cycle support
Especially if you are doing orals you want to add a solid support regimen.
I suggest adding these in, they are cheap...
TUDCA
NAC
Milk thistle
Fish Oil

HCG (Human Chorionic Gonadotrophin)
I suggest running a low dose throughout, it will keep your balls working and speed up recovery, its cheap so why not?
You can run 250iu EOD though your cycle, stop taking before PCT.
https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/90/5/2595/2836735?
"In a study published in 2005 in The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, Andrea D. Coviello, MD, a reproductive endocrinologist and practicing clinician and researcher at Boston University School of Medicine, and colleagues analyzed data from 29 men with normal reproductive physiology randomly assigned to 200 mg testosterone enanthate weekly in combination with saline placebo or 125 IU, 250 IU or 500 IU hCG every other day for 3 weeks. The researchers found that intratesticular testosterone increased linearly with increasing hCG dose, demonstrating that a relatively low dose of hCG maintains intratesticular testosterone within the normal range in healthy men with gonadotropin suppression, Lipshultz said."

Diet
Your Diet is probably the most important part, Make sure you are eating clean food at around 30% over your TDEE, Im not going to go into detail here if you cant figure that out you shouldn't be thinking about PED's

Training and Rest
Obviously you need to need to train hard, but you need to rest hard as well put the effort in at the gym eat well and sleep well, you will grow remember even though your recovery is going to be MUCH faster than when not on PED's your CNS will still take a beating and need rest to recover, dont go balls to the wall 7 days a week and then wonder why you feel like shit and are not growing. Instead do 4/5 days a week and make sure you are getting some cardio in, it's not going to hinder your gains and its benefits to your health are massive, Just do it.

So putting all that together:

The protocol is as follows assuming 4 Vials of Test E

Week 1 - 20 - 250mg(1ml) of Test E twice a week (Sunday/Wednesday)
Week 1 - 20 - 250iu HCG EOD
Week 1 - 20 - 0.5mg - 1mg Arimidex (Get bloodwork done to dial this in)
Week 24 - 30-32 10mg Nolvadex ED
After your Last pin of Test we need to wait for it to clear your system to stop suppressing your HPTA, this will take about 5 Half-lives.
Test E has a half live of 4.5 Days so 4.5Days x5 = 22.5 Days (or 3 weeks) 10 mg of nolvadex is just as good as 40mg without the sides, and there is no reason to frontload the Nolvadex.

If you encounter Gyno symptoms up your AI slightly and take your SERM (suggest the Raloxifene for Gyno flair up and Nolva for PCT) if you use Nolva for Gyno and Arimidex keep in mind the nolva will lower your Arimidex blood levels.
Raloxifene at 60mg per day or Nolvadex at 20mg per day for 1-2 weeks until the symptoms subside, once they do continue the Raloxifene/Nolvadex for another few days.

TLDR:
Get bloodwork... Before, During and After!
Get 4 Vials of Test E (500mg/week x 20 weeks)
Get enough Arimidex to take 1mg EOD if needed
Get Raloxifene or Nolvadex I suggest getting both.
Get enough HCG to run 250iu EOD during cycle (optional)
Forget Orals you dont need them
Take support: TUDCA, NAC , Milk thistle and Fish Oil
Eat Clean food over your TDEE
Train Hard and do your cardio!
Get lots of Quality sleep.

Get bloodwork, I cant stress this enough... Make sure to have enough of your AI and SERM on hand BEFORE you start pinning, it's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it, these "extra things" are cheap and not negotiable in my mind, don't take stupid risks with your health stay safe!

Axzel69's picture

You are still touting the same misnomers and cant provide any SCIENTIFIC evidence to counter mine. Your summary shows how closed minded you are, thanks for stopping by and I welcome you to stop back when you have done a little research and updated your view.

The ONLY thing you linked me was your post filled with info people going off old timers and bioscience.

To sum up...
I have provided links to studies and logical reasoning to each of rustys hanging points.
Rusty provided me a link to a PCT that was taken from a 13+ year old book of "dr" who was fined and had his license revoked for malpractice.
Basically you have no counter argument past what you think is right... and less of a desire to learn something or even look into what I am saying.

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Saint gannett's picture

I lost you in the intro... test and.... please educate me?

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Axzel69's picture

It's a pretty simple test cycle. breakdown is at the end.

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Saint gannett's picture

I went back and read all the way through, mostly as I have made a crack about movie time below, but I get your hard work and effort, and it would be a good debate piece for people who have knowledge, but IMO, not a lot of people who actually 'need' advice will go that distance, sadly. Your breakdowns of half lives, quantities required, etc., they are good, but I am a bit with the questioning HCG from the rip? I think the 'cheap so why not' is the part I was not sold on.

I don't think that butting heads with an established members is going to get you far, you stated your opinion, he stated his, and the thread becomes a bit of a movie the more it is clouded by arguing. I probably think that Milk Thistle or Live-52 is enough, coupled with a good quality fish oil, but the TUDCA is simply a more pricey liver protection method, just IMO again.

If this were a d-bol and 19-nor cycle, finishing with a tren/winstrol then I would say, yes, throw in the kitchen sink on liver protection, but remember that these 'protectors' can also be overdone and have their own adverse effect, not to mention receptor interactions that can actually hinder a cycle.

I only throw this in to say that I have read through your post, that is all. Whether I agree with you or not an insult, so don't let these opposing opinions lead you to say inflammatory things. It is a good write up, no questioning that and I feel that you put your heart into it. Once again, I just put this comment to tell you that I did read it, and I appreciate the work. I don't agree with all of it, but I don't feel you are going to lead anyone to a tragic death or enlarged heart valve, so kudos for the input. I still say it is popcorn time when you jump on an old schooler, but I am guessing you have thick enough skin.

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Axzel69's picture

Thank you for your levelheaded logical post, I don't want to butt heads with anyone and not looking to step on toes.
A logical counter argument without insult was openly invited but I didn't receive anything but insults from the get go, I wont sit back and take it when I feel I am not wrong no matter how long that person has been around...

I'll go as far as to say It felt like I should just delete my account and go find another forum to join... not much of a community feeling on that front.

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Saint gannett's picture

I've been there, and it is not a good feeling, kinda' what I'm hoping to give you a nudge away from. Try the AA aproach, take what you can use, leave what you can't and criticism will go down better. I read some support for you in this and I did read every post before jumping in. There is a good community here, stick it out and ride it along. Today's page 1 is tomorrow's page 20. Remember that half of us are hormonal anyhow and probably in rage at our shadow on occasion.... balance it with that. Keep on participating and sharing.

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Axzel69's picture

all but one person I have encountered so far have been fantastic, its the reason Im still here Smile

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Janus's picture

I enjoy a good debate. Besides, if we don't ever let someone challenge how we think and what we know, we would never get any better...We would all still be thinking the earth is flat.

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Janus's picture

I did run across this while researching testosterone with HCG.

https://themenshealthclinic.co.uk/the-benefits-of-using-hcg-with-trt/

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Axzel69's picture

you still have zero concept on how these compounds even work...

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Saint gannett's picture

Time to get the popcorn! Front row seats, or maybe I'll sit near the back and exit doors.

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Axzel69's picture

it's a hellevalot easier to reboot your system after one longer cycle than jumping back on after not having done a real PCT (like you suggest) only having waited time-on+PCT which is BS it takes MONTHS maybe YEARS for your HPTA to fully recover bro...

So yeah do a longer cycle and then dont just jump back on... otherwise you may as well just bast and cruise.

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Halsey's picture

I like a good, clean, well sourced debate too.

Pale's picture

Instead of calling something dogshit how about talking like an adult and educate?

Saint gannett's picture

Jumping in here.... choose life, rainbow dreams, black lives matter...... herummmm'

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Axzel69's picture

LMAO

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Axzel69's picture

agree, I am always open to talk it out, if i'm right then I helped others, If Im wrong I learn something win win.

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Saint gannett's picture

As below... I treat is as a carb reload, protein boost, amino acid (make me puke) day... but treat,]... cheating implies dishonesty, Treat implies benefit and this is what this is all about.... benefit.

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Saint gannett's picture

Like 'cheat day' I call 'treat day'... does not mean one will cheat, just take advantage of opportunity. Rusty, I need all the support I can get these net 13-weeks,,,,, got to lose 4-inches of belly Lee Priest Style with the body of.....me

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Makwa's picture

10mg of Nolva for a PCT. The TRT clinics are going to thank you for all the business.

Axzel69's picture

check the studies bro the data doesn't lie, 10mg or 40mg its the same result...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4053157/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17709798/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12783932/

Why take more if it doesn't help you?

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LUG2109's picture

Isn’t NIH tha same organization that said Covid shots were ‘safe and effective?” I wouldn’t trust them far as I can throw them. GTFOH

Axzel69's picture

Do you even understand how the drug works?
this comment proves you know nothing about what you are pushing, sorry dude...

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Axzel69's picture

you are on your own level...

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Axzel69's picture

just because it isn't getting huge attention from anyone but the brick wall doesn't make it wrong... still proving to be a your own level bro.
history will show you that people tend to want to stick to the way they have been doing things rather than change even if there is clearly a better way...

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Axzel69's picture

Good one bro, Read my replies where I linked the studies and read those then come back Smile

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Axzel69's picture

12 weeks isn't a bad time frame but IMO you may as well use u the last of the vial you have and go 15weeks Not sure why you say 12 is tops? if your health markers look good an extra 3 weeks isn't going to make a huge difference.

There are a few popular schools of thought when it comes to HCG, personally and as I put in the post I dont think its really needed at all anyway.

The blood level thing here is the link to on of the studies:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2362190/
I cant speak on your case but maybe you were fine and it didn't have the same effect, I dont know.

I going off studies and newer outlooks off of info that other people have found from relevant studies, I am very open to discuss and even change what I have posted. I just noticed some things I didn't agree from other posts like a 4week PCT starting the week after last pin.... That kind of thing isn't going to do anything when most of the PCT is still being done when you have test in your system blocking your HPTA.

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Axzel69's picture

You are not wrong that its harder ofc BUT most people aren't waiting long enough before starting PCT the steroids need to have fully cleared before your PCT will work, and ofc if you shut down for longer you will probably have to PCT for longer and rest longer. Like I mentioned elsewhere there is data showing that HPTA doesn't fully recover for WAAAY longer than most people think (months maybe years), With that said think to yourself what you are doing if you follow the "recommended" length on + PCT and not allow your HPTA to fully recover.

I believe one of the people I mentioned who came off blasting and cruising had to PCT for MONTHS and his HPTA didn't fully recover to normal levels until much later it did though. (fully anecdotal and shouldn't be expected)

So run the longer first cycle, get the gains and allow your HPTA to FULLY recover before you jump back on, if you dont you might even be better off just cruising instead of PCT it's likely far less stress on your system...

You are correct with the HCG, for sure there are different schools of thought with this, the dose listed should keep you right at baseline serum levels keeping your Leydig cells active and minimizing atrophy which is part of why PCT can be difficult in the first place.

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press1's picture

Way off the mark here I'm afraid - 15 to 20 weeks is ridiculous to suggest to a complete beginner as a first cycle. 8 to 10 weeks on 500mg Test is the best way forward. Running double that amount of time increases the risk of them damaging their endocrine system. Let them feel their feet on a shorter cycle first and then its up to them where they go from there. Did you seriously think this would go down well when you wrote this?

Axzel69's picture

8-10 weeks just isn't really quite long enough, 12-15 is pretty good in my opinion if you are shutting your self down and risking your health you may as well get a decent result out of it but, running any AAS is risk to your health but if you use a lower dose keep an eye on things with regular bloodwork and manage your health while you are on IMHO its far better than jumping on and off short subpar cycles and yoyo your bodies systems on and off cycles to get the same end result.

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press1's picture

I do see where you are coming from, But I just do not feel comfortable saying to someone that has never tried steroids before to stay on for up to 4 months and wouldn't like to see anyone else suggesting that either. Many believe Test isn't doing much before 4 weeks in, however I believe you are already going to see good results even at just 2 weeks compared to having been use to natty test level results so far.

Axzel69's picture

explain why please?

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