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Axzel69
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-1 Stupid Simple first cycle

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*** Go read the Studies before you down vote me for no reason - Change my mind if you disagree ***

I know there are other guides posted here that cover first cycles but I disagree with some of the info posted, Instead of replying with a laundry list of complains shitting on someone else's work I figured I would just write a guide and explain why I this simple cycle is a good place to start.

So firstly should you do your first cycle?
it's a personal choice, I cant answer that but before you do go get blood work done there are a number of places you can get them done costs like $60 (in the US anyway) well worth it to check health markers.

So my bloodwork looks good, Im a health young adult and ready to start.
Ok. The main compound we will be looking at is Test E (Testosterone Enanthate) or Test C (Testosterone Cypionate) They are for all intensive purposes essentially the same thing, pick one.

Your first cycle is probably going to yield your best results, for this reason and the fact that we are running a lowish dose of Test I suggest going a little longer than most 15-20 weeks That will be exactly 3 or 4 vials of 250mg/ml test pinned 2x per week at 250mg per dose.

AI (aromatase inhibitor)
Do I need an AI?
Probably not but just keep one on hand incase, I suggest getting enough Arimidex to take 1mg EOD if needed.
you can take it if you notice sides or better yet I suggest getting more bloodwork done and knowing for sure...
I advise against taking it preemptively! you will crash your E2 into the ground for no fucking reason, Low E2 sides are A LOT worse than Higher E2.

SERMS for PCT and Gyno
I suggest having Raloxifene or Nolvadex or better yet get both, The reason is that Raloxifene is better for Gyno flair up and Nolvadex is better for PCT...
Nolvadex and Arimidex also dont play well together and the nolvadex will drop the blood level of your Arimidex. read more https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2362190/

for PCT taking the "normal" dosages recommended isn't going to produce any greater results the results at 10mg are the same at 40mg where test production is concerned, it's just going to increase sides, there is no need to frontload Nolva.

PCT should start 5 halflives after your last shot, for Enanthate it's 4.5Days x5 = 22.5 Days (or 3 weeks) You can start PCT earlier but it's probably doing fuck all for you until the test clears your system and stops suppressing your HPTA.

multiple Studies have all come to the same conclusion:
1mg and 5mg per day and found the two lower doses are just as effective as the previous standard of 20mg per day or more.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4053157/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17709798/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12783932/

Orals
I suggest just doing test by it's self, Its fucking strong stuff and there really isnt a need to start stacking shit on your first cycle...
If you MUST have something do a small dose of Anavar (if you know it's legit, its expensive) or Winstrol they are both dry compounds that wont further fuck with your E2.... research that separately I suggest against it.

Cycle support
Especially if you are doing orals you want to add a solid support regimen.
I suggest adding these in, they are cheap...
TUDCA
NAC
Milk thistle
Fish Oil

HCG (Human Chorionic Gonadotrophin)
I suggest running a low dose throughout, it will keep your balls working and speed up recovery, its cheap so why not?
You can run 250iu EOD though your cycle, stop taking before PCT.
https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/90/5/2595/2836735?
"In a study published in 2005 in The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, Andrea D. Coviello, MD, a reproductive endocrinologist and practicing clinician and researcher at Boston University School of Medicine, and colleagues analyzed data from 29 men with normal reproductive physiology randomly assigned to 200 mg testosterone enanthate weekly in combination with saline placebo or 125 IU, 250 IU or 500 IU hCG every other day for 3 weeks. The researchers found that intratesticular testosterone increased linearly with increasing hCG dose, demonstrating that a relatively low dose of hCG maintains intratesticular testosterone within the normal range in healthy men with gonadotropin suppression, Lipshultz said."

Diet
Your Diet is probably the most important part, Make sure you are eating clean food at around 30% over your TDEE, Im not going to go into detail here if you cant figure that out you shouldn't be thinking about PED's

Training and Rest
Obviously you need to need to train hard, but you need to rest hard as well put the effort in at the gym eat well and sleep well, you will grow remember even though your recovery is going to be MUCH faster than when not on PED's your CNS will still take a beating and need rest to recover, dont go balls to the wall 7 days a week and then wonder why you feel like shit and are not growing. Instead do 4/5 days a week and make sure you are getting some cardio in, it's not going to hinder your gains and its benefits to your health are massive, Just do it.

So putting all that together:

The protocol is as follows assuming 4 Vials of Test E

Week 1 - 20 - 250mg(1ml) of Test E twice a week (Sunday/Wednesday)
Week 1 - 20 - 250iu HCG EOD
Week 1 - 20 - 0.5mg - 1mg Arimidex (Get bloodwork done to dial this in)
Week 24 - 30-32 10mg Nolvadex ED
After your Last pin of Test we need to wait for it to clear your system to stop suppressing your HPTA, this will take about 5 Half-lives.
Test E has a half live of 4.5 Days so 4.5Days x5 = 22.5 Days (or 3 weeks) 10 mg of nolvadex is just as good as 40mg without the sides, and there is no reason to frontload the Nolvadex.

If you encounter Gyno symptoms up your AI slightly and take your SERM (suggest the Raloxifene for Gyno flair up and Nolva for PCT) if you use Nolva for Gyno and Arimidex keep in mind the nolva will lower your Arimidex blood levels.
Raloxifene at 60mg per day or Nolvadex at 20mg per day for 1-2 weeks until the symptoms subside, once they do continue the Raloxifene/Nolvadex for another few days.

TLDR:
Get bloodwork... Before, During and After!
Get 4 Vials of Test E (500mg/week x 20 weeks)
Get enough Arimidex to take 1mg EOD if needed
Get Raloxifene or Nolvadex I suggest getting both.
Get enough HCG to run 250iu EOD during cycle (optional)
Forget Orals you dont need them
Take support: TUDCA, NAC , Milk thistle and Fish Oil
Eat Clean food over your TDEE
Train Hard and do your cardio!
Get lots of Quality sleep.

Get bloodwork, I cant stress this enough... Make sure to have enough of your AI and SERM on hand BEFORE you start pinning, it's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it, these "extra things" are cheap and not negotiable in my mind, don't take stupid risks with your health stay safe!

Axzel69's picture

I highly disagree, there are many studies that debunk the old school way of looking at things, in the case of PCT taking more nolva doesn't do anything other than open you up to more sides... doing a short 2-4 week PCT isnt enough especially when you still have shit shutting down your HPTA (even the smallest amount still in your system will negate the PCT) thats why waiting for it to completely clear before trying to start your system back up.

the standard 8-10 week cycle isnt really long enough, 12 weeks leaves you with some test going to 15 isn't going to make a huge difference in most cases, 500mg isnt that big a dose and even going out to 20 weeks isn't going to suddenly fuck up your Endocrine system beyond repair, there is also a reason I mention doing bloodwork multiple times regardless of how long you are on, everyone is different and will respond as such the bloodwork will let you know if you should get off early.

If you dont agree fair enough, though calling this "Dogshit" because you dont agree isn't a valid argument, I am open to discuss or post links to the studies if you want to see for yourself though.

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Axzel69's picture

You have not addressed anything specifically, I can't tell you why I have said something when all you are saying is its shit...
Again Im happy to discuss it, I am always open to learn if I have something wrong.

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Axzel69's picture

Exactly why i suggest getting bloodwork before, during and after Not just adding in an AI and crashing your E2 for no reason... look at your results and adjusting from there, adding in more nolva to a PCT isn't the answer if the PCT isn't working other things can be done but just increasing the dose from the get go cause thats how its always been done so it must be right mentality makes zero sense.

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Axzel69's picture

dont bother bro he is a brick wall...

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Axzel69's picture

"Old cycles were 8-10 weeks. Old farts and me reconfigured things to 12 weeks back when this site opened. Not only to work the esters better but STILL RECOVER on a proper pct."
100% and 15-20 weeks is still short enough to recover just fine but long enough to yield decent results.

"Hcg is NOT run on cyclem. It overstimulates receptors and causes PCT to FAIL."
the Nolvadex PCT and HCG work in completely different ways, the low dose HCG is keeping your ball functioning and avoiding atrophy, making recovery quicker after cycle and aiding in keeping you fertile if that is something that is important to you. The reason for 250iu EOD is it will keep you right at baseline, HCG is used in multiple different configurations as well just fyi.
https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/90/5/2595/2836735?
"In a study published in 2005 in The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, Andrea D. Coviello, MD, a reproductive endocrinologist and practicing clinician and researcher at Boston University School of Medicine, and colleagues analyzed data from 29 men with normal reproductive physiology randomly assigned to 200 mg testosterone enanthate weekly in combination with saline placebo or 125 IU, 250 IU or 500 IU hCG every other day for 3 weeks. The researchers found that intratesticular testosterone increased linearly with increasing hCG dose, demonstrating that a relatively low dose of hCG maintains intratesticular testosterone within the normal range in healthy men with gonadotropin suppression, Lipshultz said."

"Your layout of pct is weak! Recovery is what the cycle is about yet you run longer, screw it with hcg and then choose a weak pct ideal?"

In what way is it weak?
Read these studies please
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4053157/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17709798/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12783932/
They ALL found the same thing 1mg and 5mg per day and found the two lower doses are just as effective as the previous standard of 20mg per day
So why do you want to increase your dosage when its NOT doing anything but adding NEGATIVE sides?
Many steroid boards and people are already onboard with this info.
I personally don't want to be taking extra shit that isn't doing anything over a certain dose but adding extra sides, but you do you bud.

"I can literally break each sentence down to you not knowing better. Id suggest you dip into a PROPER pct first to even understand recovery. Anyone can cycle but diung it properly means longevity."

"That group has base level ideals and pct written by PHD and MD's. Dont come here only to harm others. Read up and learn."

Overall you seem to attack my views based on outdated Ideas, I have linked you multiple studies that reinforce what Im saying, please take a look and let me know.
I look forward to your reply Smile

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Makwa's picture

I am not finding a correlation between those studies and rebooting the HPTA.

Axzel69's picture

He was saying that the PCT is weak, the studies show that its as effective at the lower dose then the higher dose...

The study about the HCG shows running a low dose on cycle will keep your ITT within the normal range, which will aid in recovery and keep you fertile.

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Axzel69's picture

The Hcg still kept the ITT within the normal range, which is the main goal of running it during, it wont shut your nuts down bro...

the only study linked in that post is about AI (Aromasin)?
your entire argument is that NOLVADEX a SERM is more effective at a higher dose?

Some links 404 and are clearly outdated...
Link me some actual studies and not random biased forum posts that you wrote and linked advise from a single drs who have no scientific data to back it up..

Listen bro, Im not saying you dont know what you are talking about clearly those PCTs work if done right... My argument is that new data shows that the nolva will work JUST AS WELL with a lower dose. So why take a higher dose?

The other thing I mentioned is people not running a PCT correctly to begin with, in the case of longer esters like Enanthate or Cypionate
1. starting too soon.. if the test hasn't cleared your system fully the PCT wont start doing anything so 2 weeks after isn't enough time you wasted a week of PCT bro. you took high dose of shit that did NOTHING during that first week but give you sides...
2. Not long enough PCT.. Part of this can be attributed to problem 1 If you waited you would have had an extra week of the PCT actually doing some good for you.

I that case your PCT is the less than ideal one both in terms of effectiveness and sides.

Also you say "Real physicians and drs addressing real pct"
The only person that was a "real" dr in your post had his license taken away and his book that you got the PCT is over 13 years old now...

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Axzel69's picture

No its not exactly the same but it demonstrates the desired effect, there is no reason you wouldn't stay at baseline all the way through, There is also a ton of anecdotal evidence out there about it but Im not going to cite anecdotal evidence.

The HCH is optional anyway, its not an integral part of the PCT.

There is also anecdotal evidence of guys getting of years of blasting and cruising and getting back to in range numbers with a longer PCT, they might have had to wit for everything to completely clear and run the PCT for longer but everything started back up. (not going to cite non scientific evidence but you can search for them if you like, it's pretty interesting.)

My main point is this if you start the PCT AFTER everything is completely cleared your system and run it long enough (until it's done what its suppose to do) there is no reason why the lower dose of Nolva wouldn't work it's clinically as effective as a higher dose...

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