posted Sun, 01/28/2018 - 00:33
4372
+ 1 Igf-1 levels with and without tren
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I always read that tren raises igf-1 levels.
For me was the opposite.
Last month: i was doing 500 test enanthate with 150tren ace eod.
My igf-1 levels was 250.
I leave the tren last month and included primo : 500 test enanthate with 400 primo per week.
Igf-1 levels 350.
Can happen 2 things, tren blunt my igf-1 or is rising with the passage of months. Iam on hgh for 3months now.
Extrange not?
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basskiller89Increased protein consumption can raise IGF levels
Did you start eating more meat when you dropped tren and added primo?
andrejcutlerjust from observation I notice most androgens will elevate Igf-1
Trenbolone doesn't raise IGF1 levels, on the contrary, in most cases it lowers them, it has mainly to do with its progesteronic nature. Trenbolone has also a negative impact on the liver, as well as on thyroid hormones, which may sabotage IGF1 serum levels.
How ever I actually speculate based on vast clinical trials on stock animals, as well as on empirical observation on athletes who uses trenbolone, that its high androgenic component induces on the autocrine level (locally secreted by muscle cells) greater secretion and sensitivity growth factors, and also posses direct effect on satellite cell proliferation which leads to skeletal muscle hypertrophy, especially for the long run.
According to Dr Todd Lee: "Tren is 5 times more potent than standard test. It binds more fiercely to the androgen receptor, bumping other weaker hormones off. It amplifies IGF-1 production. It increases the IGF-1 receptors. This double IGF-1 whammy makes the IGF-1 response huge. This means extreme muscle growth and cell splitting making new muscle cells. More than any other steroid."
I don't know how credible the good Doc is, however I have read similar comments elsewhere.
Trenbolone indeed has 3 to 5 times more affinity to the androgen receptor, I may show u scientific references to this, the configuration on the 19-nor position enables this trait.
I would like to see one scientific reference that shows that trenbolone whether in vivo or in Vitro enhances IGF1 production.
I also assume that trenbolone presence may alter IGF1 binding proteins, or enhance the activity or number of IGF1 receptors, but it surely doesn't mean it increases IGF1 serum levels.
https://academic.oup.com/jas/article/76/2/491/4625137
Note the extremely critical fact in this scientific literature - trenbolone was COMBINED with high dosages of Estradiol to achieve higher IGF1 serum levels.
...and this is my last reply - you can educate yourself, i'm not your unpaid teacher: Estrogen and GH - http://www.eje-online.org/content/166/2/207.full.pdf
You asked for "one scientific reference that shows that trenbolone whether in vivo or in Vitro enhances IGF1 production". You have it. If you have an issue with the parameters/variables/sample/methodology and or rigor of the published research article - take it up with the authors. My work is done here. Have a great week.
Brother - I don't think we have an argument here not to say a beef, but having a discussion,
Trenbolone is one of my best sellers, and it does have multiple pathways anabolic effects, but itself it doesn't raise serum IGF1 levels, and in many cases it lowers them somewhat.
The reason an estrogen is added to this anabolic cocktail in the link you referred us to is precisely this. Estrogen has a positive effect on the GH-IGF1 axis, and an ingredient in this compound along with trenbolone because when you administer trenbolone to these calves you completely shut down their endogenous hormone production so in order to keep the GH - IGF1 axis activated they added estrogen, they did it for a reason
Ok - sometimes I come across too blunt in my comments. I get what you are saying, but do not agree. In this study the authors conclude "In summary, treatment of BSC cultures with either E2 OR trenbolone increased IGF-I mRNA level and proliferation rate, thus, establishing that these steroids have direct anabolic effects on cells present in the BSC." My emphasis on the 'or'. and the research also seems to disagree with what you are saying. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jcp.20000/full
Soooo....
Firstly, too many variables changed to know for sure.
But... given tren's effect on both glucose metabolism and lipolysis i really dont think you need to worry about this!
However... tren takes a chunk of time for those effects to really kick it whereas gh may take 4-8 weeks. Tren can be longer for the big lipolysis effect to fully show.
RustyhookerWent from 250 to 350....thats a raise
Hgh for months. Did you test your hgh prior. Maybe its bunk.
Yep I ordered some labs first thing this morning..
Thanks to your good advice. I really needed a good baseline to make sure my stuff is working like it should.
I guess on certain things it doesn’t pay to be a tight wad. Hahahha
I’m getting the rest of my panel from the VA tomorrow.
“Witch Doctors”
RustyhookerExcellent! That will help them and you figure out if your system is up to par. As we age our test levels can drop.
I don't know if tren decreased your IGF level but a gym mate with more than two decades of experience once told me that he always use IGF during a tren cycle. I'll ask him again for the reason and let you know.
There’s supposed to be some sort of synergy between tren and the igf1 receptors. Like it increases receptor sensitivity or something. Hopefully someone with a better understanding than me will chime in.
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Instead raise igf levels, tren downs my igf-1 . Comprobed