Transgender New world Record.
Hey Kids,
I’m sure some of you have read this in the news. Recently a Transgender Broke numerous Women’s powerlifting records.
https://www.aol.com/amp/2019/05/01/transgender-weightlifter-mary-gregory...
I’m curious as to your thoughts about this. In your comments, I recommend sharing your opinion but being respectful about it. I have a close friend on this page who has a transgender family member who also wields a pretty strong ban hammer if he needs to.
I’m personally of the opinion that trans people should not compete. Being born with male hormones gives a huge advantage physically over someone who wasn’t . I think I’m some instances people who were born with female parts taking testosterone for male characteristics could also gain an unfair advantage depending on the dosage.
How will this play out in future olympics?
I’m curious as to everyone’s opinion if they have one.
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as far as olympics currently they ban females who test too high for naturally occurring testosterone ... I read a very interesting article about a girl that was banned several months ago ... so I don't see how a transgendered athlete would ever be able to compete with the current rules in place.
Update: Titles Stripped.
https://www.dailywire.com/news/47094/female-trans-powerlifter-stripped-w...
I can't ever see it being part of the Olympics, it's basically an unfair advantage. What would be the point of naturally born females even trying. There's enough controversy about the south African girl, forgotten her name but from what I've seen on the news some say she should be taking drugs to lower her high test to that similar to her competitors.
The trans community would take a hidding in the media and online, people love to have something to hate and under the banner of fair play they would be on the bullshit moral crusade.
Maybe in 20 year's there will be a trans game's under the Olympic banner like the they have for people with disabilities. It would be the best all round. If I ever changed sex I'd rather compete with other trans than natural women. It's the best way to do it morally and competitively.
Facts not feelings, biology does not care about feelings. There is an unfair advantage between the two sexes.all records will be broken if biological males are allowed to compete with biological female athletes
That's stating the obvious, the question put forth was, "How will this play out in future olympics?"
I believe it will play out in The Olympics & stated in the bottom half; all records will be broken if biological males are allowed to compete with biological female athletes. Its Just a matter of time
r4zor_reloadedMy initial reaction was kudos to that person and thinking thats progress for society.. but after reading the article I realized how and why this could be a serious issue in the world of competitive lifting. Being that I think its absurd to think someone would fake their gender in front of the world to break some records. Its clear to me this person feels they should compete as a woman. Makes me wonder how the commission evaluated this entry.
Honestly having a transgender category or even a whole seperate transgender powerlifting circuit would probably be a good idea. Until then, let everyone compete only according to their biological gender. (Ie if they have a penis, male category. or vagina, woman category)
Transgender is not like being gay "and proud".
A trans male/female does not want to be called out as being Trans any more than you would if you had a micropenis. Do you think you'd feel comfortable having to compete in the micropenis olympics? I think not.
In the view of a trans, A trans male is just male. A trans female is just female. Not the girl that used to be a guy. Caitlyn Jenner does not want to be known as the girl that used to be Bruce. Check out this wikipedia bio, notice, no mention of Bruce:
I understand, that the trans dream is to be recognized as what they deep down feel that they are. No if’s ands or buts about it.
Unfortunately that dream is impossible to have with out the “buts”.
The fact of the matter is the trans person was born physiologically opposite. No matter how good surgeries are, no matter how good the hormones are, a trans person will always retain some of the characteristics that they were born with.
Olympic competition separates competition physiologically. They have to because for the huge majority of sports would be completely dominated by those who are physiologically male. The fastest woman of all time, Florence Griffith-Joyner ran the 100 in 10.49 seconds. She set a world record that may never be beat.
If you are a man and run the 100 m dash at 10.49 if you are lucky you might make it into a D2 college. Physiology makes a huge difference.
There has to be some give and take on not just guys like me on how I treat and talk to someone who is trans, there has to be some give and take in the trans community by recognizing that the competition is based on physiology. Call it male or female, divide it into x’s and y’s, It doesn’t matter. People need to compete inside the boundaries of their natural born physiology. If not, every woman in the world will be short changed by the trans community as the trans community ultimately pisses in the nest of the gender that they feel that they belong to.
If the trans community wants fairness, they need to be fair themselves. There has to be give and take on all sides.
I think it’s great that Caitlyn Jenner doesn’t want to recognized as Bruce. It still doesn’t erase the fact that Caitlin Jenners athletic accomplishments were all done in a man’s body and could have only been done in a man’s body.
What is wrong with give and take on both sides? What is wrong with accepting birth physiology?
We are not in disagreement and I've stated as much already. However, the solutions of "No" or "Never". and a "Trans Olympics" are non starter solutions. That's my only point.
It'll take time. It won't always be fair for one group or the other along the way, (yes, Ed, your daughters will have to draw the short straw now and again. Remember, life is fair at not being fair), but I trust that eventually science and society will figure this out in time.
Now onto the bigger more important issue... Are Rusty and I the only ones competing in the micropenis Olympics? This would suck because Rusty already has 2 gold medals for scissor gymnastics.
We don’t have to worry about my daughters drawing the short straw as my daughters are actually Staffordshire terriers who identify as children. once they are let in to the Olympics Flojo’s record doesn’t have a chance.
I can’t really say that I don’t have a dog in the fight. 
As far as micropenis olympics go...Once again life is not fair and my genetics eliminate me from the competition while Rusty gets a free pass. You just need to make sure that he’s not running deca to take full advantage of the deca dick. Nothing pisses me off more than a cheater.
At any rate...
It’s a fun argument, I enjoy arguing with guys like yourself who make strong points. Thanks for being a good sport about it. I wish my smile translated over through type on these sort of things. I completely understand how your empathy and position would be on the side of your son. I actually respect the hell out of that. That’s what Makes a good Dad, and I have no doubt that you are an excellent Dad.
All my love, No homo.
Ed
r4zor_reloadedI dont disagree with you at all. The problem isnt with the people who understand. Its with all the people who dont understand. I think the reason people are upset is because a hormonal thing.. making it unfair to compete as the gender you feel you are as opposed to the gender you were born with. Believe me, I read all your comments and im definitely with you on this but until theres more awareness of and about transgenders, there wont be room for progress. More and more transgenders are becoming open about who they are and a transgender category or circuit wouldnt change this. It would bring more attention to these topics. Just imagine how many transgender people dont compete because they dont feel theres a lane for them or that they will be judged in this manner? The whole LGBTQ movement was a driving force because it allowed more people to understand that transgender people exist and that theyre not just perverted people who are crossdressing like many people who are unware seem to think. They need the attention and awareness.. not much will change if they just skate by thinking people should or are going to automatically understand.
Until Ive met 2 different transgender people in life.. I didnt even care to understand or defend them in debates such as the big restroom debate that was going on a few years back. Where people usually always brought up their kids or younger siblings and how they didnt want them to share a restroom with transgender people. Or learned that "tranny" is considered a derogatory term but most people dont seem to know that.
But I do respect that you probably know way more than I about this topic especially since its quite personal to you.
jayiskif anyone is interested in the USA Power Lifting Policy on trans lifters here it is. This is the federation Mary Gregory competed in which is the article topic of this post. USA Power Lifting I believe is working on a trans division.
https://www.usapowerlifting.com/transgender-participation-policy/
Here is a some PL feds that transgender can compete in:
https://barbend.com/transgender-friendly-powerlifting-federations/
r4zor_reloadedAh interesting. Thanks for sharing this. Was kinda curious about the policies on this matter.
AnonThe only people who really have a right to care are the ones competing against transgender people, let them have their own voice. If they dont care, then fuck it. If they do care, let them stand up for themselves. I've never been one to care what other people do unless it directly affects me.
I have daughters. Too young to understand or speak up for themselves. I competed in various sports, my wife competed in various sports. It’s likely our children will compete in various sports.
As a Dad, do I not have the right to look out for their best interests?
Do you have kids or plan on having kids?
Would it directly effect you if you had an incredibly gifted athlete daughter get blown out of the water in competition by someone who identifies as girl but has the body of an average young man? What if it cost her a scholarship?
You bet your ass it would.
AnonBut the little I know about you, your daughters will most likely turn out to have a voice of their own and be empowered to stand up and fight for what they believe is right when they are directly affected by something. This world is so messed up because everyone has an opinion on something that doesnt affect them, let the people playing the game hash it out. That's the only way for people not to be labeled bigot in this pussified world. I cant speak on what I would do of I had daughters, I'm sure a bunch of views I have now will change.
jayiskupdate on article which Ed posted as the main discussion for this topic which people should read before commenting--
Records overturned and explained why in articles below. I would suggest reading both articles below before forming an opinion on this--"four days later, she learned that powerlifting officials had stripped her of everything."
https://www.outsports.com/2019/5/6/18527075/transgender-powerlifter-reco...
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/05/05/league-revokes-female-weig...
Ed’s Additional thoughts:
99.999% of us and 99.999% our kids or future kids are physically and/or mentally incapable of ever competing on an Olympic level.
Is that fair? Hell yes it is. Maybe your kid has a different gift. Maybe he or she will be the next Bill Gates. Guess what most former olympians that I know are broke as hell. Life is fair.
I don’t believe that Gender dysphoria gives someone the right to take a man’s body to compete in a woman’s competition. Olympic competition measures the max potential of natural Men and natural women of the world. Not everyone gets to play, not everyone gets a medal. It’s likely that every person reading this post no matter how big their dreams are will never get a shot at the Olympics. That is life. That is the fairness of life. You, me, nobody is given that right. What gives a trans any more right than anyone else?
Same reasoning was used to keep "the negro" from playing in the white leagues. And unfortunately will probably be the attitude for decades to come.
Unlike the gay community who have fought hard to "come out". The Trans community wants to be treated equally, and be allowed to "disappear" from the public's eye. If I'm a trans female, I don't want anyone to see me as trans or a man.
I agree life is fair at not being fair. That does not give us the excuse to hang on to old views to discriminate.
The "Fairness issue" being discussed is putting a spotlight on a broader issue.
Remove the competition element from the conversation.
We are at a point in our society where we need to have a discussion as to the definition of what a man and woman is and how it relates to gender. (I know, it's a twilight zone concept that is not rational in the old world thinking)
How can we allow men and women of the same gender compete?
When that last sentence sounds normal to you, then you'll understand the conundrum we are facing.
Wrong question. Wrong attitude. Gender dysphoria is correctable through surgery and treatment. Why are trans given less rights than anyone else? What about the fairness of allowing pseudohermaphrodites to compete but not trans?
RustyhookerSame reasoning was used to keep "the negro" from playing in the white leagues. And unfortunately will probably be the attitude for decades to come.
Negro vs whites was still male vs male genetically or female vs female genetically. Especially interesting if we look at the olympics in nazi germany and see how that went.
This isnt a color thing or blind standound as who wants to be noticed or unnoticed for that matter. Its scientifically genetics. Compare by weight class or any class the women vs men in any sport. There is a clear difference in results.
Of course... But you should try and read everything I've said in context to what is being said.
We all know it's genetically unfair. The question is, How will this play out in future olympics? This isn't a color thing, It is however a social thing.
You realize, (i've even seen the comment on eroids even) as blacks worked their way into white sports the complaint of the day was that their slave ancestry gave them an unfair genetic advantage. It was better to keep them segregated.
RustyhookerFuture olympics, who knows. It seems like if you have an opinion in mass media, you get shamed into silence because it doesnt fit into political correctness. You cant be mean even if its logical truth. Only time will tell where it goes.
another interesting situation is with Castor Semenya, a hermaphrodite runner for south africa.
She has no ovaries, has internal testes, and XY chromosomes but runs as a woman. I think they have decided she will have to suppress her hormone levels to those of a woman before she can compete again.
RustyhookerIts definitly going to be a hurdle. Modifying everything to make it as level as possible.
I guess in many ways its ironic to have roid users even hollar cheat. Lol.
The Black vs. trans comparison is apples and oranges.
My son Feels like he should be 6-3. 350 lbs. he wants badly to be a professional Football lineman. Is it his right at 250 lbs to juice his ass off to make the cut? Would it piss on those linemen who were born that way? You bet it would.
Take your pick on who you want to discriminate against. The Trans community or women in general. Opening the women’s books to people who were born and raised with a man’s body, will eventually eliminate naturally born women from competition. They are now seeing it in cycling, weightlifting, Track, wrestling, and MMA.
What about the women who have been fighting damn hard for their own rights?
I do think the XX XY division is how it will have to go to find any type of fairness.
I get it, you are fighting for the rights of your daughter. I hope you realize that I have to fight for the rights of my daughters.
Gender re-assignment surgery does not completely remove all male muscular and skeletal physical advantages. Until it does, natural born women of the world will continue to be phased out of physical competition. Unable to compete against each other because they will be labeled bigots for holding their own events.
A male heart is considerably larger and more efficient averaging 70 and 72 beats per minute a female heart averages between 78 and 82 bpm.
Women’s lungs have a smaller diffusion area than men forcing women to work harder and maintain an increased level of breathing compared to men.
We have to consider this.
Let’s put the women back into the home where they belong?
That’s where this is going.
Take a look at Connecticut High school track. Connecticut allows students to compete in sports as the gender they identify with, with no further requirements.
This year, two biologically male students, crushed the competition taking first and second in the 55 meter dash.
With scholarships up for grabs, aside from true trans kids...there will be males pretending to identify as females to get school paid for. No one will call bullshit out of fear of being called a bigot. How will my daughters compete with girls in a young man’s body?
There has to be a line in the sand. Why to natural born women have to take the hit. Their fight is hard enough?
No, I most certainly am not. I'm fighting for the rights of my son.
Not when it comes to social acceptance within the context I used it. It points out a non-accepting bias. The, "There is us and, there are those guys" mentality.
There are hermaphrodites - female, that have hidden male genitalia. others have both. There was an individual, a kenyan runner if I recall correctly it was decided her win would stand because all her life she was raised as a girl.
You probably easily understand that as a birth defect and allow it even if there is a size advantage and brush it off as one big ass woman, kind of like Brienne of Tarth. But who knows, maybe all isn't as it seems, maybe Brianne carries a Y chromosome.
Trans is not an option, it is not a choice. It is a female or male missing/getting a very crucial chromosome.
Transgenders do not want to be labeled as such. it is not like the gay community.
I agree, it is unfair as shit. But perhaps it has to happen often enough to force a change. I wholly disagree with the connecticut school. It's PC run amuck and an insult/setback to the trans community.
If you want to fight for your daughters without discriminating, fight for sexual equality irrespective of the gender.
Easy with the red type Greg. Lol. It was a memory mistake on my end. I thought you had a son that transitioned into a daughter. Not vice versa.
Look, it’s a tough deal all around, from what I see trending the PC crowd is pushing for a Connecticut resolution everywhere. From what I understand the IOC will allow trans and hermaphrodites to compete in the women’s category as long as testosterone levels are below a certain point for at least a year. I still disagree with this. Continuing the route that we are going will eventually eliminate natural born women from Olympic competition.
Bro, the point I’m trying to make is the Olympics discriminate. If you are mentally or physically handicap you go to the special olympics, if you have short arms, you don’t swim, if you are slow you don’t run.
I’d be willing to bet that most of the guys on this site would not make the Olympic cut because they are discriminated against. They were born win the physical and mental inability to become olympians.
I’m not advocating treating your son like a second class citizen. I’m just advocating that he, like the high majority doesn't make the cut. Because Opening this door will eliminate all natural born women from competition.
That's probably a bit of an exaggeration. I expect it will become an problem of abuse as I've stated. Where you now have a rare situation where a trans will:
A) even want to compete.
B) is able to make the cut to compete.
C) or is like my son who can barely tie his shoe much less pull off a perfect pole vault.
I'm sure it will evolve into abuses similar to when steroids came on the scene. And there is where a solution will be found.
PC wussies will not hold the line and "fake trans" will infiltrate. It will be interesting to see how things pan out.
I agree. It isn't going to get that far. I think the IOC and other federations are just hoping it goes away on its own before they have to draw hard lines
This is a hard one cause it's not really fair but you don't want to take titles away from someone just wanting to be themself and not be judged as something they feel they are not. This is why I mind my own business and let other people worry about it on that note good for her and good luck to the next round of women to try and break the record's
I believe it’s got to be black and white otherwise what’s stopping a man using huge amounts of steroids to build a base then have a sex change and compete against women? That’s obviously not right so unfortunately for fairness in a the sporting world it’s got to be a no. Outside of that do whatever makes you happy as long as it doesn’t effect others.
Anyone following the Caster Semenya story? Not wanting to jack your thread ed but that’s topical.
Genetics , DNA, & body composition do not care about arbitrary gender preferences.
In a free society yes, as long as you are not infringing upon any others rights by all means do whatever you like, dress however you like, "identify" with whatever you like, and by all mean love who you like.
However this is not equality. Any child with a brain paired with functioning eyeballs would tell you that there is an obvious physiologically difference between men and women. The only way for fair competition Is for transgender to compete solely versus other like transgender. There is a factual reason that Lebron James does not play in the WNBA and that Tiger Woods does not shoot off of the Ladies Tee.
What disadvantage is there if a trans male competed with women, and a trans female competed with men? Why are you creating a "Trans Olympics" if you will? Why not allow men and women who share the same chromosome pair compete equally on the field?
The language I'm using is deliberate. "Trans" is not like declaring you're gay. "Trans is, "I'm a man stuck in a female body" in short, emotionally it's, "I'm a man, not a girl, don't treat me as such".
Socially, where it's acceptable to say I'm a gay man, or that is a gay man. It is not acceptable to address someone as "Trans" and they will not tell you they are one. As far as they are concerned they are men, and women.
So, what is ultimately needed is to have men and women with the same chromosomes compete equally on the field
The reason I keep going back to the "X hammer throw", and the "Y hammer throw" is because if you were to force a trans female to compete in the "Men's hammer throw" you are not recognizing the trans female as being a woman.
So there you have it, equality of the sexes, men and women competing equally in the X or Y hammer throw.
I'm probably one of the more liberal guys on this site.
I believe in civil unions, gay adoption and equal health care benefits.
However an apple is an apple and an orange is an orange.
Women have endured as much bigotry as anyone if not more so. They deserve an even playing field of there own.
I'd like to point out that I've never heard Greg refer to his son as his daughter. To me that's how I know I'm correct.
I think it's fine to be gay or trans and people shouldn't interfere with that.
I also think gay and trans people shouldn't interfere with someone's right to an even playing field...it goes against the whole point of their movement imo.
I agree with everything but the last comment...
Let me rephrase that just a little, "I also think nigro people shouldn't interfere with baseball and the whites right to a segregated playing field..."
That said, pragmatically I agree, there should be a degree of compromise and understanding on all sides as long as there is a good faith effort to work toward a solution.
Let me propose a ridiculous scenario. What if there was a talented, gold medal winning track and field athlete who grappled with his sexual identity and only felt like himself when he accepted the fact he was a she. Four years later she wants to compete again, it's in her blood, it's who she is. But now she can't. It's unfair to the others. And, it's unfair to her. This person is the Jackie Robinson of the time.
My proposal, you replace the men's track and field with the Alpha track and field geared for men and women that carry the Y chromosome. And you have the Omega track and field geared for men and women who do not have the Y chromosome. People are trying to remove sex from everything else (mailperson, fireperson) this might be the one area where that makes sense.
Of course, like Jackie Robinson and baseball this change will fly in the face of tradition dating back to the 1890's when the modern olympics were started. The debate will be contentious and linger for decades. Maybe there's a different solution; I'm just not seeing it.
You make a good point.
You've either got a really sharp wife you debate with or your an Attny...
My dad was a JAG
Your a chip off the old block.
Honestly few people can twist me.
I made a career playing dumb...
I appreciate the dialog however you bring in points that are not relevant to the discussion.
Personally it is no ones business who anyone choses to love.
Yet this again, is not a factor in this discussion. No one is asking anyone their personal orientation, sexual preference, or if someone is gay. Sexual orientation, sexual preference, and gender identity sociology in this case , is a total nonissue.
Fair play is the issue.
What the root of conversation is an unbiased scientific look at genetic physiology.
There is a reason men do not compete against women in 99% of all sports. A genetic male who is transitioning or has transitioned in to a Transgender Female has no place whatsoever competing against genetic females. We both seem to agree on this. We as adults must be able to recognize simple facts and truths. One of them being that regardless of feelings & social constructs a transitioned female is not the same as a genetic female from a physiological standpoint. Stating these facts are in no way discriminatory. We are only speaking of fair play. I do not mind your rebranding of events in order to make sure no ones feeling get hurt. Personally, I would rather salvage fair play over feelings.
We do both seem to agree that the current system is flawed needs to be corrected much sooner than later. I hope they do before someone gets seriously injured.
It's all about fair sports.
A woman who identifies as as man should no longer compete against women if she takes testosterone.
These are rules we accept as steroid users. Some still cheat of course, but they know that the extra androgens give them the edge.
Maybe sports need to be broken down in to womens division and open division.
I agree with you Ed. I am all for people being who they want to be but when it comes to sports we need to have some hormonal limitations
RustyhookerTo me thats outright cheating. Genetics is gentics regaldless of who you screw.
X2 agreed
jayiskWhen it comes to PL and sports you need to compete in whatever sex category you were born as.
Here it is not as simple as a trans saying "i'm a women because i say i am."
they were born male and have an advantage over the females they are competing against. This is unfair to women who have been busting their butts training and trying to compete in a fair contest.
The fairest thing to do is have a separate trans category for them to compete in.
There would be problems with a separate trans category.
Further separating a group where integration is desired. (Might as well prevent gays from competing as well.)
Separating that subgroup into a smaller subgroup of trans-males and trans-females
All of which would effectively make sure there was no event at all. In the US the trans population is only .5% of that, my guess is that there is even a smaller percent that want to compete, or compete so openly.
Trans want to be "out" in as much as if someone knows they are trans, they are treated with the same respect and dignity as any other. But they don't want to be pointed out.
"Further separating a group where integration is desired. (Might as well prevent gays from competing as well.)
Separating that subgroup into a smaller subgroup of trans-males and trans-females"
Terrible analogy. Not even close to same ballpark. You of all people should understand this.
"might as well prevent gays from competing" . -why? As this nothing to do with this discussion.
This not a bigoted discussion about oppressing a certain marginalized group. This has absolutely nothing to do with discrimination of any kind. This has to do solely with physiology, genetics, and a fair competitive sporting balance. How do we make sports fair for all while being inclusive for all? This is the real issue.
By your logic, you mean to tell me that the Special Olympics get "less respect" than their counterparts? Do Olympic Mens sled hockey team get less respect? The only fair way for fair competition is having like people competing against each other. If Usain Bolt put on a dress and stepped up to the 100 meter woman's race would that be fair? This is entirely the issue we are facing today.
This has absolutely nothing to do with discrimination whatsoever. This is not a civil rights issue whatsoever but rather a nuanced competitive balance issue.
You should read my other posts.
You are incorrect about this not being a social issue. Banning them is a social issue, forcing them to compete in an event labeled as something other than their identified gender is discrimination and a social issue. Not understanding that transgender means is the issue you and others have. So, read and learn something.
How can this be addressed? One way is to redefine the competitive game.
Please do not assume that I do not understand what transgender means
and I take offence that you would automatically assume "the issue you and others have".
An opposing opinion to your own is not an "issue with transgender" people. Charging I am a bigot in so many words is such utter nonsense. You were the one talking about banning of which I called you upon as that in fact, would be discriminatory. Truly a wild baseless assumption that I can only figure comes out your personal emotionality in regards to this topic.
This is not a social issue but a 100% fair play in sports issue.
Is the Sled mens hockey player being discriminated against because he may not play vs standing skating players? Is Lebron being discriminated against because he can not join the WNBA? Is The Mountain being discriminated against because he cannot enter the Special Olympics Deadlift competition?
Of course not.
Mike Tyson wearing eye shadow vs Laila Ali is the definition of unfair play.
Your solution is to "redefine the competitive game" because as you already stated .5% of the population feelings may be hurt because of the word "men" or "women".
Your grand scheme of X vs X and Y vs Y would be great if there was not such a issue as exogenous hormones consumption! As any member of Eroids should understand. In lay terms , Obviously a Roided up Y vs non-enhanced Y is not a fair competitive balance either.
Fair play issue in sports. Nothing more.
This is most certainly a social issue. How do you think the Trans female got to compete with the women to begin with? Bad choices had to be made. Recognise the individual as a female as is her legal right but doing so is unfair to the others. Or enforce fairness at the expense of her identity and every transgender as well and possibly opening the door to a class action lawsuit.
The question being asked by Ed is this:
Simply stating that this is unfair (which we all agree it is) does not address the question or propose a solution. This is a social issue. Do we ban all people taking any hormones (includes birth control) as a pretence to exclude transgenders from sports under the guise of antidoping. Or do we modify how we define gender. Which would be a huge social change (makes the bathroom issue look trivial)
My guess is that out of fear of a liberal social backlash and endless, costly litigation transgenders will be allowed to compete as is. It's unfair, but the issue for now is rare. Sooner or later, trans females will be recruited and paid big bucks to compete because they have an edge, then it'll be a problem that won't be ignored.
What is your solution?
Is Lebron Caitlyn Jenner?
All your examples fail to recognise trans female as being just female. Even though you know the definition of transgender, you are failing to understand what that means.
Take a pause from trying to out debate me and try and understand what it is I'm trying to say. We are not in disagreement about the fairness I've said that from the onset.
Banning is not a solution.
Having a "Trans Olympics" is not a valid option.
The status quo isn't fair.
So in the Future, how will this play out? Do you think the solution will only be confined to the sports arena? Or will it have much broader social ramifications?
Footnote:
A roided up Y (man) is not transgender and there are anti doping rules in place.
A roided up XX (female) could be transgender but the levels would be within normal ranges for any man.