Pain relief for addict?
I'll start off by saying I was a pill addict for a solid decade. Instead of continuing down a path that leads to no where (i.e. jail) I straightened out my life by going to see a Suboxone doctor and being prescribed buprenorphine/naloxone that I take daily to prevent myself from craving any sort of opiate. I'm now a fully-functioning adult that is on a minimal amount of Suboxone daily to prevent cravings but it blocks the ability to take any sort of morphine-based pain relievers at times when I have a medical necessity for them.
I've brought this situation up with my Suboxone doctor and his stance is that I should just "take it like a man" and continue what I'm doing. I exercise 5 days per week and perform an hour of intense cardio to keep my weight down, as well as inject 125mg of testosterone cypionate per week. My endocrinologist only prescribes 75mg of test every 10 days, and when I inject only what he prescribes my numbers never rise above 325-350 and because I'm labeled as a drug addict he sees these levels and think that his job is done. I circumvent his logic by upping the 75mg every 10 days to 125mg every 7 days. This could be considered addictive behavior, but I don't inject the testosterone to lose weight and to gain muscle...I do it so that I can pop boners and feel like a normal person since Suboxone has permanently wiped out my ability to produce testosterone naturally.
Very frequently and without going balls to the wall, I use low-impact machines such as elliptical machines and arc trainers to keep my cardio levels at an elevated pace and to increase metabolism. I also stay away from red meats and take TUDCA 3-4 times a year, NAC, Silymarin, and Omega-3s every single day. At the end of the day I find myself having difficulty sleeping because the joints in the lower half of my body ache and hurt to the point that I can no longer get a good night's sleep. There is only ONE "narcotic" that I can take that helps me by alleviating most of my pain without getting me stoned...with Suboxone the pain medication only works on pain receptors in my body and does not impair me cognitively whatsoever. That medication is tramadol...50-100mg taken at nighttime.
I know I'm in sort of an unusual situation, but I have a moron for an endocrinologist that thinks that if I have syringes in my hand that I'm going to be injecting drugs with them even though i pass all drug tests and do not take more testosterone than needed typically. If I could find other medications to combat the joint pain in my lower extremities and hips/lower back then I would ditch the tramadol altogether and try other medications whether they are simple muscle relaxers like cyclobenzaprine, metaxalone, orphenadrine, carisoprodol, or some other medication which I have yet to try..
Does anybody have any ideas for medications that are not narcotic in nature but could help with pain following workouts? I've tried everything from corticosteroid injections in extremely sore spots in my body, chiropractics, massages, and anything I can think. I'd probably do the community a service by blowing homeless people if it helped with my pain and prevented me from taking narcotic medication since it's a road I need not travel down. So, here I am asking for any help people might have regarding pain post-workout. Some people might think the buprenorphine should be a pain reliever all on it's own but at the dosages I have to take it, it does absolutely nothing for analgesia and only blocks my cravings for opiates and keeps me on the straight and narrow path and I despise going back down the same path back to where I started. I take my sobriety head-on which is why I'm trying to avoid consuming theraputic doses of tramadol even when I require it to sleep, so I'm listening to any advice someone might have and will take all critiques into consideration - negative or positive. Thanks for your time, and I look forward to any responses you might have.
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Thanks to the response guys for everything. I'm fully healed now and have been back on the Suboxone for weeks now and have absolutely no lower-body pain of any kind and now have full night's sleep every single night and no reason not to get back on my normal gym grind since getting the all clear from every doctor on my team. Life really is better without pills, and you never really see the bigger picture until you go without something so long that even the thought of getting back on it makes you feel sick to your stomach and just knowing that I was on full agonist opiates gave me that pit-of-the-stomach sense of "I need off of this IMMEDIATELY" that I only took enough to hold me over to a point where I could discontinue taking everything once and for all. I should note that under my last post or two I made a clerical error where I listed two different drugs that I was taking without explaining the situation (probably because I was actually stoned even though I hated it). My first week or so of taking any full agonist opiate started with oxymorphone IR taking it every 4 hours as needed, and days 7-10 I was taking oxycodone IR and at day 11 I was scripted 4 tablets to hold me over through that entire day before I had to go CT until I was in a position where I could switch back on to Suboxone. The transition from oxycodone to Suboxone was rough for about 3-4 hours because it was pushing my opioid receptors in my brain completely dry so that I was in precipitated withdrawal but before I knew it I was no longer in withdrawal and successfully back on Suboxone so it was a VERY small price to pay considering the circumstances.
After the surgery, I managed to talk my doctor to lowering my daily Suboxone dosage to the equivalent of 12mg of buprenorphine instead of the 16mg I took before the surgery and he begrudgingly authorized it. My doctor is only in this profession for the money it brings, and when he senses that people are getting ready to jump he convinces them to stay on longer and "re-examine things a few months down the road" so that he can squeeze more visits out of the patient - this is well known among all of his patients. During the surgery he also prescribed me 1mg Ativan TID for 15 days so I filled a prescription for 45 tablets...and I have yet to take a single tablet of the shit. I gave it to someone to hold on to me because it seems like a useful medication to have around for the day that I decide enough is enough, and I trust this person with holding my stash and not giving it to me until a time when I absolutely need it to just function so I feel safe going about things this way. My area of the country seems to love overmedicating people - especially if they're tolerant to pain medication no matter how their tolerance occurred which is rather startling but I am my own advocate so that's how I chose to play this round out.
I have a review coming up that I should have bloods for this week for some good Kalpa gear, and even though I don't have much gym experience with the drug I do have the bloods and a week or two worth of exercises that I can include in the review so I feel like I have enough information to make a good statement regarding the service and drug.
Big thanks to everyone involved in this thread and wanted you all to know it's appreciated very much...there aren't many places on the internet where a subject this taboo could be discussed without having somebody tell me that I need Jesus, AA meetings, or a combination of all three (I left the third one which was "you just need to get laid man.") Cheers to everyone.
elbowFirstly tramadol is a synthetic opiate so Sta away from that or you open a new can of worms .........i used to hate hearing this but it turns out the fckers are right paracetamol and ibuprofen together do wonders for most pains n swelling just one of each as a rule tends to sort head aches n muscle aches for my self
Try it just don't over load on ibuprofen as it can fck your stomach but think that's on very high doses.....hope that helps a tad
Rosser01I have been on subutex going on ten years and after 5 of those years I was able to have a kid and that's at 3 a day. I doubt the suboxone had anything to do with your not being able to produce testosterone, but I'm no doctor. I take the subutex instead of the suboxone for 1 fear of ever having to go back to a life I once had and hated, and 2 because if god forbid if I ever have some kind of serious accident and needed any pain relievers then I would be able to use them if I really had to. Maybe you could ask your doctor to switch you to subutex instead of the suboxone, it does help with pain also. Good luck Bro
I had my surgery and was switched over to Oxycodone on the day before the surgery, and stayed in the hospital for 3 nights and 2 days connected to a bupivacaine and fentanyl pump. Was discharged with 14 days of medication total and it was divided into two prescriptions, one for that day and one for a week away. I took the oxymorphone tablets as prescribed and ended up with about 4 extra each fill of the drug so I had 8 tablets left over at the end of it all. I allowed myself a little bit less than 36 hours until I was in moderate withdrawal and took a half-dosage of buprenorphine and I started to feel better within about 30 minutes or so. I took the other half of my daily dose an hour later and it was smooth sailing from there. Definitely do NOT miss the pain killers since I feel like I lost several weeks barely being able to recall a lot of things that I did and said and that's not how I want to live my life.
On the plus side I have a spare 30 Suboxone tablets that I can put back for when I have to wait on prior authorizations for refills for my Suboxone, Saw my addictionologist today and he said that I did very well by following directions because there were no opiates besides bupe in my urine and he called it a major success. I'm still having to walk around a little slower than normal but I don't have much pain at all unless I were to start walking normal pace or jumping up and down. I'm supposed to start back exercising this weekend which I'm not looking forward to right now, but it needs to be done and I've got to get back to training. Can't let all of this test go to waste now!
EDIT: The leftover oxymorphone tablets were flushed down the toilet once I was completely back on Suboxone, but I'm keeping the unused Subs for times when it takes my insurance company days on end to approve a prescription.
Good on you. There are better highs in life than being too fucked up to know WTF is going on.
You don't need pain pills. I would not fuck with those since you were addicted prior. Just ice and Advil. I've had multiple surgeries without that dogshit.
If I can get by on just NSAIDs that would be perfect, and it's honestly the ideal situation. Normally a hip arthroscopy is an outpatient procedure but I told that the only reason I'll be hospitalized is because of pain control due to the Suboxone. I would have to take the chance that just Suboxone would be enough to take care of the post-op pain and asked around on what I should expect afterwards. My mother had a hip arthroscopy on her left side maybe a decade ago, and even though she's the kind of woman who never takes pain medication under any circumstance she ended up having to take 7.5mg of oxycodone every 6 hours for about a week before she could go back to just taking NSAIDs. She was nauseated the entire time too because she was taking so much oxycodone and not used to taking pain medicine.
If she had told me she was able to tough it out I would have considered going without the narcotics and just dealing with the pain. The fact that she needed anything though is why I decided taking a full agonist opioid would be better for post-op pain...if I were still on the Subs and I was in excruciating pain after the surgery only an anesthesiologist could prescribe the amount of fentanyl it would take to overpower the fentanyl and you have to be monitored basically in an ICU setting to make sure that the amount of fentanyl you receive doesn't slow down your respiratory rate enough that you stop breathing. In my situation the narcotics are going to be my best bet so that I don't put myself in a situation where I'm in pain and can't do anything to relieve it. I'm only taking what the doctor prescribes and I'm having family members help me out afterwards by monitoring my doses of painkillers until I stop taking them and start the Suboxone induction once again.
We briefly thought about increasing my Suboxone dosage from 16mg to 32mg for pain control, but when I asked my addictionologist if it would help with the post-op pain he told me "most likely not." I was told that at my current dosage the buprenorphine was blocking about 97% of all of the opioid receptors in my brain from being able to latch on to any of the opiates I would take and at 32mg it would bump it up to 99% and provide almost no extra analgesia. My Suboxone doctor signed off on up to 10 days of narcotics, as well as my surgeon and anesthesiologist - I actually spent most of the day with all three doctors going over the plan. In about 10 days I'll stop taking the Suboxone and when I go into withdrawals start taking 30 of oxycodone every 6 hours (two days before my surgery). When I get to the hospital, I'll be connected to a PCA with fentanyl and will get pain relief that way and will spend 3 days total in the hospital being monitored while on the pain pump, and discharged with 4 more days worth of oxymorphone IR. After that, I go back into moderate withdrawal and switch back over to Suboxone.
The one thing that all 3 doctors agreed on is that I should only take short-acting painkillers so that the transition from Suboxone to pain killers and back on to Suboxone should be pretty straight-forward. My addictionologist and anethesiologist both have experience with this kind of situation and neither of them had any problems switching between the two types of drugs, and no relapse happened. The idea of having to take them in the first place makes me sick, but I would rather be at least comfortable than writhing around in pain after surgery so that's why I'm allowing the doctors to move me over to a full agonist for a short amount of time. I already know what to expect thankfully, and the worst part of it all will be when I'm done with the pain killers and have to go into withdrawal before I can start taking my Suboxone again. It's gonna be rough, but I'll only be in WDs for about 6 hours before I can start taking the Subs again and get back on the shit. If I weren't on Suboxone, this surgery could easily make me want to relapse but I don't fear it because I have a support system in place and already take an opiate-blocker.
Cheers to your comments though, and I appreciate the enthusiasm. I know you mean well, and it shows that people actually care which I have much gratitude for. I'm looking forward to having put all of this behind me and get back to my normal life and not be in pain while continuing to work on lowering my Suboxone daily dosage and potentially coming off of everything and being completely free.
I wish you the best but this is a gift wrapped relapse. Your entirely too excited to get to the hospital and get on that pump brother.A normal person would say im going to have to take some pain meds. An addict would go irto great detail about the specific meds he/she were going to be given. I can hear the addictive behavior in your post. I can reconize it because ive been there.The only person you have to be honest with is yourself.I hope im wrong regardless i hope the surgerygoes well and that you transition back to the subs with no problem if needed.
I didn't make any suggestions or ask for the medications and dosages used...that was all up to my addictionologist. He was the one that told me what I should do, and he's the one that prescribed all of my pre and post-op medications to me already. I haven't seen the paper prescriptions yet but they're available to be picked up at his office whenever I want to go. I'm not planning on going over there until next week to pick the prescriptions up, and I'll probably fill the first one the day after stopping the Suboxone. Everything is out of my hands. I hope it's an easy transition back on to buprenorphine as well, because I can remember being in full blown withdrawals and feeling like death and wouldn't wish that on anyone.
I should make a side note that I've never done street drugs...I've never bought or sold pills or heroin or anything like that in the past. All of my medication always came from a pain clinic, and the most I've ever taken in a single day was 25mg of methadone. When the nerve damage in my thigh healed to the point that gabapentin alone would be enough for pain relief, I brought up the idea of lowering my methadone dose to the doctor and he thought it was a good idea, but the next week I was back at the doctor admitting that I was feeling addictive tendencies for the first time in my life even though I always followed the doctor's orders. He told me that a lot of people who are on opioid pain relief for an extended period of time have dependency issues that turn into addictions and that it's a common occurrence...he thanked me for telling him though and that's why he got me in to the Suboxone doctor within 48 hours. I was given the option of coming off of the methadone gradually or switch to Suboxone and when he told me that I wouldn't be high any more on Suboxone but it would stop the withdrawals from happening I went that route. I know I'm an addict, and I've worked on myself for many years now but my addiction was the result of years of a sanctioned chronic methadone dependency. Most people hear "Suboxone patient" and think that person is either addicted to street pills or injects heroin and I was neither of those...and it's also something I'd never do. I don't even have access or know how to do any of that stuff, which also helps insure that I'm not going to end up either on the street or in a detox facility.
let us know how everything goes. I hope the surgery works well for you. Best wishes bro.
UPDATE: I received a phone call from my doctor Friday afternoon, and was told that I have bone spurs on both of my hip joints. I was certain that there was nothing wrong medically, but that turned out to be wrong and my doctor told me about three different areas of concentration on the right hip joint and two on the left. Because I'm not able to take pain medication for the inflammation, I will have to continue on Suboxone for about 10 days and then stop taking them 5 days before my bilateral hip arthroscopy surgery. He's switching me over to oxycodone 15mg 2-3x every 6 hours for pain the day or two before my surgery as well. I was also told that I would be placed on a fentanyl pump (PCA) to make me more comfortable before the surgery actually takes place. I'll have to stay on the fentanyl pump for about 3 days post-op and they're going to move me over to another oral opioid for about a week, and then I'll have to stop the oral pain meds and wait for the withdrawal to come back so that I can start back on my normal dose of Suboxone. I'll have to be completely knocked out for this one and because I'm a Suboxone patient I have to have a special anesthesiologist that knows how to handle bupe patients and give me enough pain relief without overdoing it and making sure that I'm comfortable.
I'd be lying if I said I wasn't concerned, but I was also told that since I exercise so much and that I'm relatively healthy that I should be back up and running on both feet in about a week to ten days, and I can start back doing light exercising around three weeks - or as much as my hips can take without causing too much discomfort. Having surgery doesn't bother me, and I don't have to discontinue my testosterone as the doctor says the testosterone should in fact help with the healing process (thankfully). My only concerns are that whether I picked the best doctor for the job and if the surgery will actually be successful or not, but I have high hopes so I've got that going for me. At first I thought the doctor was suggesting a total bilateral hip replacement and that scared the fuck out of me but he backtracked and just said that I had several bone spurs that need to be machined back into a perfect circular joint.
He also mentioned there were signs of arthritis though, and rheumatoid arthritis runs in my family big time. The doctor after the surgery is going to start me off on some RA drugs to prevent the erosion of my cartilage, but I've not been diagnosed as having RA as he only sees "signs" of arthritis in my hip joints and believes that the arthroscopy will give me back full range and no more pain laying down at night. I dread the thought of taking pain killers because it feels so wrong since I've spent years getting away from them, and it almost feels like a fail on my sobriety but I've already been told by many people that when a doctor is prescribing your pain medication and watching over you in these types of situations that I'm not relapsing and that as long as I take my medication as the doctor orders that it's not considered a relapse as it's something medically necessary. One of my parents will stay with me at my home after the surgery to help me take care of myself, and they will also control my pain medication so that there's no temptation to take more than prescribed but I don't feel that I would ever do that in the first place because I'm in an better frame of mind than I was starting on the Suboxone. I know I'll feel differently when I'm in acute pain following the surgery but I can tough it out if it means being able to just sleep in my bed without hurting.
There's the latest update for what's going on right now. Thanks for the messages guys.
tl;dr - I have bone spurs and have to have surgery on both hips and will switch over to about 30mg oxycodone every 6 hours before the operation and possibly low-dose oxymorphone after the surgery depending on how much it takes to control my pain in the hospital on fentanyl PCA. Not worried about the surgery, but going back to pills is not something I ever wanted to do but understand it's not a relapse. Cheers.
P.S. I don't mind the three day hospital stay. I should be pretty sedated on the pain medication (which I'm not looking forward to) and my hospital has the fastest internet in the entire city. I've used my laptop to connect to their 802.11ac public access point and was able to hit 600mbps on a speedtest...I plan on torrenting a shitload of movies and TV shows while I'm there and will be bringing my 6TB external hard drive to fill up while I'm there. woo!
your not going to like what i have to say. im also one with opiate issues and this is a time bomb waiting to explode. you sound a little anxious to get the oxys oxymorph and phentnayl. make sure your being honest with yourself
Rick Grimes×2. Dont take this tbe wrong way but it sounds like youve had reservations amd this is a perfect justification to "take as perscribed" . idk what kind of addict u are but if ur anything like me your gonna be off to the races. Even if u take ur opiates "as perscribed " ur awakening that sivler back gorilla that is hard to tame. Suboxone has a "ceiling" & its not the type of drug the more u take the higher u get. Its like weed. Same high if u smoke an ounce or a pound.
That's the complete opposite of what I'm going for, and also what I've been trying to convey the entire time. I've had many of years taking painkillers and if I could have this surgery and not require any opiates then I would absolutely go that route. I even asked if my condition could warrant having an epidural and using bupivacaine while in the hospital for pain control and was told by the surgeon that he would not do it because it's too dangerous when the post-op pain can be controlled using intravenous opioids. My Suboxone doctor I saw today and gave him the run down of everything as well as gave him a copy of all of the paperwork (which he already had a copy of after it was faxed to him) and my addictionologist gave me the green light for the surgery and medication protocol. It was his suggestion that I should just stop taking my Suboxone 2-3 days before the surgery and go into the operating room while in withdrawals and have the PCA connected right after surgery and let the anethesiologist titrate the fentanyl since it's going to require mega-doses just to bring my pain levels down to less than a 5 out of 10. The surgeon disagreed and said that he wanted me already on oxycodone so that most of the buprenorphine would be out of my system and they could use lower dosages of fentanyl during recovery with the PCA. No matter what though I'll still be in pain and will not be getting high like I have in the past, and the pain pump will be disconnected on the third day when I get discharged. I'll move over to either oxycodone or oxymorphone by mouth for 7 days and that's it...10 days. If I'm no longer in pain before I run out of narcotics, I will wait until I'm in moderate withdrawals and take a half-dose of Suboxone to push the rest of the painkillers out of my system and if I feel okay take the second half a few hours later.
I'll be the first person to admit that I'm an addict and have addictive tendencies, but I will also mention in the same breath that I do not miss taking pain killers or being high at all. I took methadone for years (never more than 20mg per day as prescribed by the pain clinic) after nerve damage in my thigh following a cardiac catheterization and it makes me depressed, wanting to be left alone, and lazy. I have none of those feelings on Suboxone and never have...the buprenorphine does nothing but completely rid my mind of any and all cravings. The reason I'm even on it in the first place is when I asked my doctor to start taking me off of methadone, he lowered the dosage and my brain said "I can't do this" and ended up back at the doctor the next week telling him that I thought I could come off of the stuff when I found out that I didn't have the willpower. They transferred me to a Suboxone doctor and moved me over to it and the difference was completely night and day. I truly have no desires to take anything that would cloud my judgement or numb my mind, but also understand that opioids can still be used for post-op pain and with the right supervision can be managed without falling back into the same traps. Any extra medication that I end up with will be flushed down the toilet with no hesitation.
I don't need to keep defending myself regarding opiates though, because after a while having the debate even makes me wonder if I'm doing this for the right or wrong reason so I'm not going to debate it any longer. If it has to be done, it has to be done and as long as I surround myself with the right people and have them around during the entire ordeal I should be just fine. That's not to say I don't respect your post though, because everyone has an opinion and they should all be heard if it's in the right spirit.
I hope the conversion from bupe to full opioids and back to bupe is relatively smooth, because the thought of having to be in any withdrawal after an invasive surgery is kind of scary.
You never seemed like an addict looking for a fix, but a guy with experience and the appropriate amount of apprehension. I am glad you got it figured out. Stay positive and this surgery and rehabilitation will soon be behind you.
Thanks very much...I'm not excited about the fact that I'm going to have my hip joints given a nice buff and wax so that everything moves smoother in my body, but I'm certainly not scared of anything going wrong during the surgery. My doctor himself even admitted that he had a problem with opiates back in the 80s and he spent 6 months in rehabilitation and he's the chief of orthopedics at the hospital I'm having my surgery performed at. He knows the struggles so that's why he's offered to be flexible with my pain medication since it'll take much more to make me comfortable thanks to the Subs, but the second I no longer need anything narcotic and can get by on ibuprofen and NSAIDs, I'll have to go through about 36-48 hours of withdrawal before I can start taking my Suboxone again. I have tiny worries that my pain during those 1-2 days will just flare up and become intense but I keep telling myself if that I'm at a point where I no longer need narcotics, why would things suddenly get worse to the point I would have to raise my narcotic dose? It's my mind playing tricks on me, and trying to prevent me from having withdrawals and I have a grasp on those conscious thoughts...and even to this day is still pretty hard to do sometimes.
I'm just glad I know what the problem is now though. Because I have a metric crapton of test, my doctor tells me that I'll most likely heal at least a few weeks quicker than the rest of his patients normally do which made me laugh but did give me a lot of relief.
Slow down its not a race with your workouts they would probably be more pain later on at night when you try sleep. What if you just cut the workout and lowered the cardio and ate less so you dont have to do more cardio and that way you ll get a better rest and for the medication which seems like opiates will be the only thing that really do the job. Most medical pain killers main ingredients is opiates (morphine same thing as heroine pretty much) and the others one s dont work so well. even though you have an addiction to them you can either choose take others that wont do the full job or take them and try control yourself.
Two NSAIDs (Non Steroidal Anti-inflammatory Drugs) come to mind - Naproxen: which is a very effective general NSAID and Etoricoxib - which was specifically designed to combat lower back pain. I have used both and they are quite effective, however there is a lot of literature about the use of NSAIDs and the potential negative side effects of long term use, particularly with the cox and cox2 NSAIDs, so it's best to read up before taking.
Like was posted prior, why are you in so much pain from working out? Something doesn't add up. Unless you have a legitimate injury, stretching, and over the counter nsaids should work wonders. I'd take a couple weeks off from the gym before I'd start popping pain killers, and I'm not even an addict.
I'm working with my doctors to figure it out right now. I'm not the kind of person that goes to the gym and just pushes my body to it's absolute limit so that I can just get those gains and look like I belong on a weightlifting magazine cover, but I do usually go for intensive workout sessions and get my heart rate in the 130-140bpm range during all of my cardio. I will do resisting weight training once or twice a week at the most. I haven't done much lately because I don't want to exacerbate whatever's going on with my lower half right now and I've even taken as much as a week off of exercising just to help recuperate any tissue damage.
Today I was actually scheduled to have an X-ray (and CT scan too I think, but I'm not exactly sure yet) of my lower spine and hips to see if there's anything going on that needs to be addressed. My GP is concerned I have something going on in my hip joints, and if that's the case then I'll have no other choice but to discontinue the Suboxone and switch over to a full opiate agonist until they can fix whatever's going on. Honestly I'm pretty certain that there's nothing wrong with my hip joints/sockets but if that's the case then I would end up having bilateral replacement hip surgery. I do feel like it's something medical and not my old addictive tendencies showing up because the Suboxone started blocking those cravings years ago. It's actually the biggest reason that I can now understand what real pain is and what is just my mind playing tricks with me. I passed a kidney stone while on Suboxone so I had no pain relief and it was quite painful but only for about 3 hours...after that it was like nothing ever happened.
Keep up with the updates.
Since this is the anything goes forum.
I smoke weed and get The D a good blow Job.
Either way training hurts I know guys that swear by glutamine, beta alinine pre workout and bcaa before bed
The world would be a much better place if there more blowjobs handed out. The release of endorphins alone might just possibly make everyone's lives a little more tolerable, that's for sure! Cheers my friend.
Fuck man why do your workouts hurt you so much? I've trained so hard at times I can't stand up after taking a shit or push myself up out of bed from sleeping. Never have I needed to take pain meds unless I got injured.
Maybe try taking Glutamine supps post workout with some MSM. IMO muscle relaxers are more commonly used after some heavy training sessions not pain relievers. Your drug history makes me wonder if this is just your mind trying to lure you into using again.
Just my meaningless 2¢
Nah bro, it's not meaningless at all...you seem to understand the situation and your idea is plausible. To the outside world it could look like nothing more than an addict trying to make another score, and addicts themselves don't make the argument any better. Pain is subjective, and no one but the actual person can truly feel what it means to be in "pain."
I go for usually an hour on the elliptical machine because it's one of the machines that has the lowest "impact" on your lower joints, mainly the knees and ankles. While you still rotate them in one revolution on an elliptical, they aren't impacted as if you are running on asphalt outside in the fresh air. If I were to actually exercise outside by walking quickly or running my knees would be so sore and tender that it would take damned near a week to return to normal so I stick to low-impact exercise machines. Lately though it's been my lower back that has caused my issues with pain so I've been forced to pull back from 5 days a week to 3-4 which is IMO what an average human should be doing weekly. Even when on T unfortunately it doesn't help much with joints though it provides gains like nothing else.
I do appreciate your input and will take it into consideration, along with some other ideas such as trying out a different mattress or something external to my body that doesn't involve pills or other addictive behaviors. Thanks for the input.
I'm going to agree with RangerVet--try some kratom. I sell it at my shop and i have a lot of people that come in there all the time that used to be opiate addicts that still have pain but want to avoid opiates and kratom works for them. It does not get you "high" but it somehow works on the pain receptors to block the pain signal to the brain. You can order online or maybe at your local head shop or natural health store.
I've been hearing more about Kratom lately I know a few med students using it
Plan and simple. Your fishing for the unknown. There is nothing but you as in yourself that can figure it out. One crutch is another
It's not necessarily fishing for the unknown because there are thousands of medications for pain relief that aren't typically used but do possess efficacy for certain kinds of pain. While I have years of knowledge regarding prescription medications (I've taken several years of pharmacy medicine in college but had to switch courses once I discovered my addiction and decided to move in a different direction to remove temptations from my future). I'm willing to try non-medicinal approaches if they have a track record of working to improve the pain, but there are methodologies that are practiced that can greatly reduce pain without altering mental status...I'm just asking for anecdotal suggestions and then doing my own research to see if any are a viable option for me. So far it's been a pretty productive question - but having said that you also raise a valid point in that choices are extremely limited because of my own behavior in the past. I understand and respect that, so that's why I'm trying to move away from taking other painkillers (i.e. tramadol) and use other methods instead that are beneficial to helping with the pain as well as sidestepping the necessity for opiate-like activity.
There are no meds that fit the profile you're looking for. You sound knowledgeable, so I don't need to tell you the risks of a drug addict using tramadol. We all know it's habit forming. But that's not what you asked about. I'm 10 years clean and sober. No subs, no crutch. I'm not belittling you, just giving you some context for my mindset. I've had oral surgery and passed a few kidney stones sober. Toradol is as strong as I'm comfortable taking. I may break my leg tomorrow and need something stronger, but I pray not.
If all of the elements in your equation stay the same, meaning you keep training, keep using subs, etc., you've done about all you can. Sometimes a chiropractor can help. Sometimes acupuncture can help. Even hypnosis in some cases. Best case, kick the subs asap. Not next year. Check in to a medical detox and suffer for 2 weeks. I know the pain, I was on 3-400mg of methadone daily, until I OD'd. Keep us posted on your situation.
Coming off of the Suboxone is not a viable option at this point in time because I would lose my job as well as my health coverage if that were to happen. The tramadol that I take was actually prescribed by the Suboxone physician, and he had no hesitations writing the Rx because he understood that the buprenorphine prevents me from achieving any sort of 'high' due to the binding affinity of the bupe. Tramadol does help with pain peripherally and I get no pleasurable effects from it - but it's still a narcotic as defined by the list of controlled substances in the US. My issue is that should the day ever come where I need pain relief and I'm no longer on Suboxone, I don't want to take medications that could force me into relapsing. Withdrawing from Suboxone wouldn't be just a two week withdrawal period though.
My own sister for financial reasons had to come off of Suboxone and her withdrawal period was around 3-4 months total before she felt "normal" again and continues to still suffer PAWS even to this day. From our last conversation, since she has a well-paying job now she actually wants to get back on Suboxone but at infinitely small dosages - somewhere around 0.5mg per day. Her logic told her that she should feign her addiction so that the doctor would prescribe large amounts of Suboxone so that she could hoard the entire stash and build up enough to last her for years but I told her that it would be a bad idea since Suboxone itself could put her back on the road to relapse but just by taking the bupe she would already be back in that boat. At insignificant dosages like she suggests though would prevent her from continuing from suffering PAWS, like restless legs and insomnia while also curbing her desire for opiates. Originally she tried naltrexone to stop herself from becoming addicted to any painkillers again but the side effects made her worse and she ended up in the emergency room after 6 days because she was only able to sleep for 30 minutes and she's taking small amount of Ambien now to help her sleep but that's a drug that she can't take forever while Suboxone is. Addiction is still a mystery to patients and doctors alike but she's taking control of her own life in a safe manner with the watchful eye of an addictionologist so I support her going back on Suboxone as long as the doses are extremely small and she isn't overprescribed where she can hoard medication since that is a telltale sign of addiction. Honesty is her best policy and I couldn't do anything to stop it but I offer advice when she asks for my opinion.
Addiction is no mystery brother. But sounds like you know everything. Oh, tramadol isn't a narcotic, according to the US FDA, only in certain states is it classified as such. I'd site sources, but again, you'd argue your side. Good luck with your issue. I'm out.
If I knew everything, I wouldn't be here asking for advice. Just saying.
I'm glad you have a goal or getting off suboxone. Just take it slow and go down little by little and you'll get there.
As for pain, you may just have to live with it. I have a serious back issue (stenosis), which causes me major pain, but I just do my best to live with it. Motrin helps a little but not much. I've just learned to live with most of it, because opiates are not an option for me.
I just do my best to not aggravate my problem and use heat (jacuzzi) and ice and such to take the edge off. Surgery is an option for me, but I'm holding off on that as long as I can.
Just saying that you can live with many types of pain, without turning to narcotics. Some of us just have to. You get use to it and I live a pretty good life and lifting helps quite a bit.
Best of luck.
I can understand your plight. I took opiates for years that were all prescribed to me and taken as directed. When the time came where I no longer needed the pills after the nerve damage in my thigh healed to the point where I could finally walk my mind wouldn't release the thought that I had to have painkillers just to continue to function and my doctors recognized it. Instead of shoving me off to a methadone clinic they made an appointment for me with a Suboxone doctor and started me out on it and not only did it finally release me from the desire to live on pills but I was clear-headed for the first time in years. I know that it's substituting one painkiller for another but Suboxone has the effect that it not only blocks other opiates from actively working in your brain but prevent me from fiending for pills in the first place. I always look towards the finish line where I no longer have to suffer from the agony of addiction. It's crazy that even though I took the medications as prescribed I developed not only a dependency but an addiction to those same meds even when used responsibly. It's a hard realization to embrace but I had no other choice but to accept it and do something about it to prevent myself from falling down a hole that I could never escape from. I feel as if I understand your plight and thank you for sharing it with me.
You can use kratom to wean off sub also:) will make life and brain feel normal quickly.
Kratom is natural and works great for pain. Read about it and try that. Been in your shoes and works good without any side effects.
Unfortunately Suboxone blocks the effects of Kratom since it acts on the mu receptors in your brain; buprenorphine completely latches on to all of those receptors so that taking Kratom does nothing but make your taste buds feel like dirt. If I weren't on the Suboxone though Kratom would probably be my go-to substance to help with pain and sleeping difficulties.
agreed bro. kratom helped with my opiate cravings but once i got on subs the kratom had no desirable qualities. People on here telling you, you need to come off suboxone & shit, i disagree. I am definitely not saying do not taper down or do not have a goal of completely getting off but i am sure you & your doctor have a good plan set up and that he only has the best in mind for you, that is if he is a genuine doctor. I totally agree with suboxone taking away the cravings & keeping you on the right track, hell it had a huge part in my sobriety. Just keep working towards your goals & as far as pain goes man, im not sure what to tell you other than keep researching and keep pushing through.
If u could get off suboxone for good that would be great. I know it's a lot to ask and scary. I was an opiate addict for many years and spent multiple years in prison wasting my life. Getting off for good you could start anew. Be healthier and save a ton of money. Sure you've heard it all before. Whatever u do fucking hang in there and don't use.
That's a huge goal for me, and I appreciate the input very much. I'm currently at 16mg right now tapering down to 12mg. My goal by the end of the year is to be between 4-8mg of buprenorphine, and next year I want to get down to less than 1mg or completely off of the shit. The final leg of coming off of bupe is going to be hell on earth but now that I'm in a comfortable place (or rather on my way to it) I can use the tools I've developed to wean off of the Suboxone. It really is some nasty shit, but luckily I have a doctor that now accepts my health insurance and now I just pay a $30 copay for the doctor and $60 for the meds. The extra cash would be nice to have around, but that's not a big issue at the moment. The bigger picture is working on myself so that I have the willpower to come down from it slowly enough to avoid major WDs and free myself from the shit once and for all. Great comment, and thank you.
You could also give GABA a try. For me anything above 500mg affects my breathing.
I've dabbled in a lot of the GABAs...in fact I actually take 800mg gabapentin 3x daily and occasionally will take Phenibut with it as well. I can't take a whole lot of Phenibut because it will make my head spin like I'm drunk and hung over but Phenibut is one of the gaba-ergic drugs that does help with sleep. The only problem is that you can't take it daily because tolerance is a bitch and stops working after only 3 days or so of usage. Thanks for the comment.
If you can I would get a prescription for some Indica. It eliminates all pain, lowers my blood pressure and let's me sleep. Small amounts only before I sleep so I am still cognitively functional.
That's actually a great idea, only I'm in a state where possession can land you in court having to perform community service - plus it would get me fired from my Suboxone doc when it shows up on a piss test. I like your logic though and appreciate the input very much my friend. Cheers mate.
You could try Mydocalm, Tolperisonhydrochlorid. It relaxes muscles without being super drowsy.
That's a great suggestion...I'm going to look into it and possibly try to source some to see if it provides adequate pain relief. Thank you.
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