posted Sun, 06/26/2022 - 17:28
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+ 1 Low dose primo with cruise test
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Curious if anyone has experience doing this. My thought is to run 100mg of primo a week with my cruise dose of 175mg if test and run it into my next blast where I'll be running 700mg of primo. The idea is to help maintain what I got on blast and essentially will be front loading the primo for my blast. Being that primo is a really mild compound on blood other then on hemo
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Byanymeans78I want to thank all of you guys for taking the time out and giving some really thought out comments on this. You guys are the shit.
Cruises are for re-establishing some sort of homeostasis of the bodies hormones and biomarkers.
Your body naturally produces testosterone, nandrolone (extremely low amounts) and dihydrotestosterone (through the 5aR conversion of test). No derivatives of these hormones are produced naturally (dbol, primo, win, tren, halo ect).
So including methenolone (a DHT derivative, not naturally produced) into a cruise is not producing a natural state, you are still on cycle. This could produce a variety of potential effects including: higher creatinine, higher RBC, skewed lipids, lower e2, lower SHBG (not good) ect. These are not really things you want on a cruise because they will happen on a blast anyway.
A cruise dose should be selected through bloodwork and should put you in the upper reference range. And from my experience that is plenty to hold muscle between blasts. Include something like GH in your cruise to be more anabolic without activation of the androgen receptor if you really need to.
TLDR: Save your sensitivity to drugs for your blast and use the least amount in-between. Cruising on higher amounts or multiple compounds will not make you hold more just reduces the effectiveness of the eventual elevation of androgens on blast. Use GH instead.
Just my 2c brother, Cycle safe and have fun.
The lowest dose you can use while cruising is the best way to do it. Keep pumping in androgens on a so called cruise and your myostatin levels stay elevated and hamper your ability to build muscle when you actually do go back on cycle.
Byanymeans78Yeah after reading this and giving it some thought I'd much rather detox essentially on my cruise so my body is ready to go for the blast and I get the most out of it. I've got some growth on the way and I'm going to start that for the first time on my cruise at 2iu.
Are there any blood panels or ways to check myostatin levels?
That is a good question, I know in a clinical setting they can test for serum myostatin levels but I have not seen that test avialable on quest or labcorp.
Some of the studies I have seen have shown that it takes 8+ wks to get back to baseline myostatin levels after running elevated test.
Ok this makes sense to come “off” for atleast 8 weeks between blasts. Thanks man!
Does running tren or other 19nors or 2+g/wk of gear extend that out even further, that is my big question. But running around a 500mg/wk cycle of test it is probably dropped after 8 wks. The safest bet is to go by the old standby of time on = time off. The guys blasting and cruising or the ones who really have to worry about myostatin and how it affects their next cycle.
Agreed Mak, Myostatin is the bogie man of bodybuilding, I have read so many theoretical articles by guys trying to quantify and inhibit/modify it.
Follastatin was the big one for awhile, remember those studies showing the leg muscles of the rats? - all BS
YK-11 popped up after, which is just a DHT oral not a SARM, very anecdotal evidence of effectiveness in injectable version
Leucine and creatine have been shown to be myostatin inhibitors in medical research.
All and all I do think it is the main regulator of muscle growth and part of the reason gains stop after 8-12 weeks in most cycles. Not the downregulation of the androgen receptor which has been shown to actually be opposite (AR upregulates in presence of androgens).
All in all, still very misunderstood.
@Gogeta2777 good question brother
Your 2 cents is absolutely right. Homeostasis is the key word. Yea folks tend to overlook sensitivity to hormones on cruise and then wonder why blasting is not as effective. A low reasonable amount of Test will hold gains for sure, along with workouts and meals. I'm sure you know the body is the smartest machine ever created, it adapts, adjusts, protects among all other things. Even though the body does make Nandrolone in small amounts, I definitely wouldn't use it on a cruise like I'm seeing some do. Now small therapeutic doses for joint pain relief is debatable. My stance though is it shouldn't be used on cruise period. Anyways just my 1 cent!
Absolutely agree brother, we see the world similarly.
These TRT clinics can get crazy, I met this dude the other day at the gym, he tells me he is on TRT from a clinic. I say Oh you must be on like 100-150mg TC only..
"No I am on 200mg TC, 0.5mg adex 2xAW, 20mg anavar, 2iu GH and 100mg NPP" - all pharma from doctor
I am like "bro thats a cycle not a cruise LOL" he called them "TRT add-ons" hmmmm
Haha I can believe that. Just craziness. Man I don't call it cruising when it's like that, I call it sailing! What have we come to as bodybuilders nowadays? Guess "more is better" nowadays. I'll keep my "ole school" 70's approach. Let me stay dated for real
LOL Bro I am stealing that "sailing" LOL
You can have it cause I don't want it hahaha
Byanymeans78Trt plus bruh
Byanymeans78Thanks for the thoughtful comment that makes a lot of sense.
Good luck with everything my man. I see ya
Byanymeans78No I can't argue with either one of you I appreciate when actual science is applied and that's why I asked it would be dumb for me to implement that if I'm trying to be in this long term.
My bad. When I commented that to hanginlow I wasn't talking about you. Was speaking in general. Nahh man your good with me. Hell if you didn't know then you didn't know. I sure don't know it all. I can actually see where you were coming from because after all Primo is mild. But I think our point was if you really wanna be technical and really balance the body out then leave primo out. I've actually seen folks include primo in cruise however.
Byanymeans78I can't lie I stole it from old vigorous Steve it sounded good in theory and especially cuz I'm ramping up for a primo blast. But the fact is like stated above that I can't argue with and that's getting your body essentially detoxed while on cruise so you're good for the next blast.
Man are you serious? And vigorous steve also came to my mind when I read this. Yea steve makes good points but he lost me on the primo cruise thing. He's no dummy.
Byanymeans78Far from a dummy between him and Derek some of the smartest in the industry.
Byanymeans78I can't begin to say that I have any original thought in a lot of this, 99%of the time I take things from the guys I find to actually know what their talking about and run that. Or use 1 thing from 1 and 1 from another from what I currently am implementing.
Do you think all inventors came up with inventions with only their ideas? No alot of these folks took something from here and there and bingo! Now with that said some did have original thought but I don't put one over the other simply because a result ( invention) happened in the end.
Very familiar with Steve and his work and love a lot of his info! Good guy to follow
You might be misconstruing some of his cycles though from my understanding:
Steve likes very long slow building cycles, and when he comes off he does Mono therapy with HCG one time a year
See the difference between a bridge and a cruise might seem like terminology but to me is very specific.
Cruise - reestablishing homeostasis with least drugs possible
Bridge - lowering your drugs temporarily between blasts not expecting homeostasis to return
for a bridge I would allow test/primo, but not for a cruise, this might be the context steve was talking about as he bridges between cycles sometimes because of the short nature (you cant expect blood values to come back in 4 weeks)
Hope this helps my friend
Byanymeans78Thank you for that. I wish I could give you more then just a +1 for all this help bro a lot more then not guys never would take the time to explain in such detail all this and would usually just tell me dumb idea and keep it pushing. I really do appreciate it.
We are hear to share knowledge and grow! You will be in my situation many times in the future, this is the cycle we are all part, learn and pass on!
Yea after Steve's health issue he decided to gain his weight back and boy did he. Now he claimed 100mg test/ 100mg primo in beginning. I think dosages eventually were increased though. Ole Steve loves his Bayer Primo in castor oil lolol
LOL he loves ol Bayer, yes I do remember that but was that not a "come back" cycle kinda bridge until a blast, not a true cruise, I know he takes his health super serious and comes off everything but HCG and then eventually just ices his nuts with nothing else LOL
Hahaha that damn steve with ice on his nuts! Man I don't remember details but you might be right. Haven't followed him in a bit. He's swole now though.
I dont exactly remember either bro lol I think we are both on the right track, his cycles build over time, that was probably the start
he is swole
cheers
Live and learn my man...live and learn.
He's telling you right.