posted Mon, 11/11/2013 - 21:35
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I'm planning out a cycle and would like to know what suggestions some of the experienced guys have. I've read some posts so here's the information I think is needed to give an informed opinion.
I'm 6'0" 255lbs, 36, not really sure about BF, but I have used those body scales and I get 26%. My problem is a bit of a belly. Ive been working out on and off for many years. Im looking to burn some fat and get some definition.
Ive decided on Primobolan, Cutstack. For PCT, I have Clomi, Nolva and Aromasin. Also have HCG.
I only want to do 8-12 weeks. What ideas would you guys have. Please remember, I am doing my research and nothing is set in stone. I welcome all suggestions, ideas and advice. Thanks.
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Apparently I am coming to this party late. Here is a fact look it all for all who want to dispute it because I don't have the time to do the homework for you. I will than discuss it once you have. Declining testosterone as a man ages means more body fat. When I went on TRT my testosterone numbers were in the low 600ndl range.I was gaining body fat. Despite that my diet had not changed and that I exert myself with a physical routine that no one else here does and unless you are a elite military operator. Once my test levels went up to the 1200 range amazingly without any change to my diet or training regimen my body fat dropped substantially.
Some may be fine at 600ndl test range I was not. My energy levels went up as well as my ability to recovery and go further. This all with TRT not even running a blast cycle.
Now my brother Carlos gets a little heated but he is very passionate about helping others and he is damn good at it! As well as Mexican and you can never keep a Mexican out of a battle it is against their nature :). But I agree with him many here who are younger and using aas with just one idea in mind have a dogma about who should and shouldn't be qualified to use. Also here is something else no it is not always diet even though it may be that way for you. There are other factors and yes diet is a key player but not the only one.
My suggestion to the brother above is get blood work it will be a huge help for you to determine the proper protocol. I would bet if the above information is accurate you are low in testosterone and maybe even with a thyroid issue. That is more common then people think. But since he posted all of his stats and came here with humility, regardless of anyone's opinion he should be given the respect that he deserves.
We don't have to say "that is horseshit" when addressing the OP unless you are the greatest endocrinologist in the world or a genius with how nutrition, testosterone, and aging work lets try to show some humility shall we.
AnonBeautifully said. And yeah I snapped a bit after reading a guy asking if I had a soft spot for this topic. I sure do. Making eroids welcoming for all is a huge soft spot for me.
Well I snap quite often I just try to get rid of the evidence :). We are men shit gets heated so what no one got personal.
AnonHere's a copy n paste of a PM between me and another member talking about chest routines. Again I'd like to point out I'm not a bodybuilder and yet I'm the only one posting a routine for the dude. How bout we agree that every time you say diet and train and no gear without posting a diet or routine I flame the shit out of every single one of you talk as no walk "Eroid Bodybuilders" never helping anyone just telling people not to run gear. Put up or stay the fuck out of the forums. Earn your respect around here!!!! Shot isn't given it's earned!
Here's my planned routine for chest lots of volume and heavy ass weight:
Here's my typical chest routine
Incline Dumbell press 7 sets 5 working last set I drop set n run the rack or fst7 medium intensity squeeze at contraction full stretch at the bottom don't lock elbows
Incline Barbell press smith machine
7 sets 5working pure volume this exercise. Drop sets all the way. Pyramid style don't lock elbows
Incline Barbell flys 5 sets medium to max intensity squeeze at the point of contraction full stretch at the bottom do not lock elbows
Hammer strength seated incline press 7sets 5 working pure fst7 10x10x10x10x10x10x15
Medium to high intensity. Do not lock elbows
Dips free or weighted 5 sets focus on a full stretch and never lock your elbows
Pec deck 7 sets 5working focus all on technique and contraction and range of motion. Medium intensity high volume to exhaustion
Cable fly crossovers. Full fst7 here. Medium intensity and high volume. All three angles here brother. High mid low.
Try that for a bit. Your probably doing something similar. Ill mix in some variations to the presses every other session. Ill rest the dumbells touching each other on my chest during Dumbell incline press and press up with them always touching. Focuses on the iner pec. I'll also do seated presses with a barbell. Put one end up against a wall and put a 45 on the other end which I'm holding in my hands as I'm seated in a 90 degree position. Press up and squeeze at point of contraction. I'll also switch up and doing 21's with the incline smith machine barbell press. Do 7 half reps. 7reps from half way up to full extension(never locking elbows) 7 reps full range of motion.
Dude I've even done compound sets with every exercise listed above and push-ups to get some hardcore volume.
AnonThis is for these "Bodybuilders" who have more talk than walk. Always quick to tell folks not to run gear yet and to diet and train first. Yet they never post up a fucking diet or a training program. All talk and no walk!!!!!!!!!!!
Jay Homeboy I'm done talking brother it's time for someone here to do some walking!! Here's a good clean diet I will be running this recomp. A lil from Ex and a lil from Italian. Both my boys and both walk more than talk.
7:00am:
10 egg whites mixed w/1cup unsweetened almond milk and 1 cup of oatmeal
8:00am:
2scoops whey 2cups whole milk 1egg mixed berries 2tbs cold milled flax see 1cup nonfat yogurt
10:00am:
8oz. Chicken and 1 cup of rice (jazmine)
12:30pm:
7 oz. tuna, 1 large yams potato and another hydrolized protein
3:00pm:
7 oz. tuna and 1 cup of rice (brown)
5:30pm:
12 oz cicken breast and 1 cup of rice jazmine and or green beans
8:00pm:
8 oz. 12oz Talapia or cod and 1 cup broccoli
10:00pm:
2scoops casein protein shake..............
Calorie restricted diet. Don't worry about the macros other than the carbs. Post workout meal is the 7am meal or the 530pm meal. Depends on when u go to gym. I'm going to show u a glimpse of my planned chest routine next:)
He wants to lose weight, not gain it. I posted one of the things I used to lose some stomach fat a few posts ago. I gave him a good diet idea and how much aas he should use so I am siding with you on some of this shit.
AnonI saw your diet plan of 1600+ calories. Is he going for the HEROIN SHEIK look? He won't just lose fat on that plan he'll lose muscle mass too
Wrong, I did not lose a single pound of muscle using that plan, hence why I added the supplements that stop muscle wasting. I became more vascular in the process. Without the waste stoppers he will lose muscle but then again he did say he has more fat then muscle anyways. As long as his protein intake stays high and adds the extra BCAA's he will do fine. It's all real science this time instead of bro science. Cancer patients are prescribed some of the supps I offered like L-Citrulline to stop the wasting when they are on chemo.
AnonValid. But consider this. He now is learning that it's not good food that makes him healthier. It's more supplements thus defeating and invalidating the entire point you are trying to deliver of how AAS isn't the answer. AAS isn't but supplements are? What happened to eating clean and not relying on supplements for results?
No No No lol I didn't say it wasn't the answer, i just basically said he might be looking at AAS as the only answer. I have to learn how to put my words correctly in a sentence to not sound condescending. Supplementing only due to being on a strict diet but it is kind of oxy-moronic. I suggested a low dose of test to start off while on the diet so he doesn't suffer too much and the aas will help with the protein synthesis.
Somebody fuckin with you bro.... you need me watch your 6 ?
AnonNo brother I'm good I'm just a little fired up. Nobody but a few of you guys are actually making eroids better. It's time someone posts some real information besides telling folks they aren't ready for gear. I'd love to see the stuff I just posted attached to every single "You're not ready" post on these forums. Id appreciate a get out of jail card while I deliver this message though:)
I understand and agree fully bro, ive said it myself lately about our PRO and ADV members....... do what you have to do bro i got you
AnonThank u brother.
Thanks Dr. Danger! Great information and I appreciate your tone and message. I definitely fall into a category similar to yours and feel that there are many safe and quality paths to reach your goals. Not all of us have the extensive knowledge on diet, but may have it in other aspects and categories. Great reminder to walk the walk and share the knowledge you have. Thanks again.
People can tell you to lose the body fat first before going on cycle. Or you could cycle to lose the body fat. This may sound shallow but aas is expensive and bc its so expensive its somewhat of a motivator to hit the gym and hit it hard. Wether its aas or a girl or self confidence reasons, any motivator is okay in my eyes.
Just be responsible, like any other legal/illegal drug consumption. One thing is to not jump into 3 drugs at once. Take it slow, remember this is a marathon and not a sprint. If you are dedicated you will eventually get to your goals...all in good time.
Toss your scale. it is no where close to accurate. Get some calipers and go to your gym if you have to and ask them to help figure out your BF. A healthy range for your age is 8% to 19%. Don't despair, you're probably closer to that range than you think; trust me, the scales don't work.
Don't think of doing steroids as a one time diet option or muscle builder, you'll be sorely disappointed.
Think of your first few cycles as knowledge gathering opportunities first and foremost, results are second.
Follow the rule of KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid)
grygst72 has a good recommendation...
250mg every 5 days would be a compromise dosage between 250mg week and 500mg week (for 12 weeks).
Keep in mind, once it's in you, you can't get it out.
Im going to order some calipers asap. I really do want to make the best choice. I thought Primo would help me. From what Ive read, it has low sides and i can keep the gains with a low calorie diet.
AnonGreat visual aid brother.
AnonSo according to every post on here this
http://www.eroids.com/ebc/blood-sweat-and-tears-motherfuckers-my-first-e...
Would never have been possible!!! Quit parroting this hopeless AAS isn't for you bullshit!!! It's completely fucking wrong to begin with and we all face the same fucking risks of gyno and heart disease. The risk may be slightly higher with higher BF but a risk is a fucking risk.
He'd do just fine with a low dose of 400mg of test a week. The lower dose won't allow as much atomatization and a good cardio regimen and diet will round out a great cycle for what he's trying to do. Come on guys
CD - the point that is being made is why waste a good potenial cycle using Test or gear when all you need is 12 weeks of hard graft and diet naturally to shift the fat? THEN do a decent cycle with recovery? A oppurtnunity for anabolism with exogenous assistance is good if done right - but can bet far greater with a better environment
Its a win win - you get in shape by putting in the time and effort and then you reap the rewards for a significant rebound for muscle gain with the test.
That is my take on this........
AnonSure all valid points and all correct. You're right about all of it. Truly the most ideal way for his goals.
But for that matter 95% of the dudes here should not be on gear whatsoever. Whether it's bulking or cutting its the same. It can all be done natural. Only a few guys here meet the standards of genetic limits. Let's take it a step further then brother. If you've not met your genetic limits you shouldn't be on gear. Guys 21-26 and using gear at 160lb or using Slin HGH Tren and have never seen a day above 200lbs in their life. If we go by that standard brother hardly anyone on this site should use AAS & related compounds.
So much is genetic. So much is predetermined by god himself. Some guys without gear will never be able to meet these standards. Hell brother not many members here can meet their goals without AAS.
I'm not saying everyone should take AAS. Or to think its an easy way out. Taking 400mg a week of test isn't going to make him lose bf. Not one bit. He still needs to put in the work at the gym and in the kitchen. Please don't mistake my posts as me saying Gear is the answer. What I was trying to illustrate is that just because a guy has high bf doesn't automatically mean they shouldn't use AAS. One of the signs of not having enough testosterone is being overweight.
Anyhow I figure there's plenty of members who love telling people not to use gear if their bf is too high. I think that can be narrow minded to a degree. Gear is never the answer but it sure the hell changes the body chemistry and allows metamorphosis to happen much more effectively than without it. As long as his diet is in check and cardio is amplified he'll do much better using AAS than without it.
If he eats like a slob and sits on his sofa all day nothing will change that. No gear will change any of that.
You're a very smart guy. Your posts have tons of thought and facts sewn into them that you and I both know I can't deny what you say is true on every level. But can you at least admit that it's not the only way? It never will be the only way. No matter how much we'd like it to be so.
You say : But can you at least admit that it's not the only way? It never will be the only way. No matter how much we'd like it to be so.
Yep - I agree there are a few ways to skin the proverbial cat. And if I can be honest I come from it at a different angle. My take is that if you cant put in hard graft without gear...what chance do you have WITH gear?. Bugbear for me is laziness....it realy is a worrying trend and is getting worse. Hence my default position is for people not to take gear till you create a better environment for your body.
Lets put it another way - look at the picture forum....hand on your heart...how many pictures do you see in a month in there where you think "WTF! - why was you taking gear in the first place if thats all you got!"......this isnt a Eroids thing...its a general interweb board thing.....
My approach is to get the most gains with the least amount of gear..to date thats what I have done....next year I am altering that slightly and will be doing more cyclles but they will be short 6 week blasts.
At my age, why I take gear can not be seen in the mirror.
There came a point where no matter how much I diet, how much cardio I did, I couldn't get below 20-22% BF. I could loose weight but with it was LBM so my BF% was still around 20-22%
my first cycle of test-e 500mg wk (250 x 2) I was able to cross that threshold. Gained muscle (hardly saw any visible change). My metabolism increased and loosing that gut started to become a reality.
My second and third cycle is where I started to see noticeable changes.
What CD is pointing out, without disagreeing with you, is that there are many of us who are not athletes and who are not bodybuilders.
We want to be fit. we would like to look good at the beach. But more importantly we want to feel energetic, and have a healthy libido... I'm sure you don't want me to post a pic of my healthy libido. ;-)
Greg, this is exactly my point. I have tried and cannot get below this weight. My body does change as in my shirts fit differently, my pants are looser. The weight on the scale does not move though.
That's not necessarily a bad thing. Women want to lose weight. Men want to recomp (exchange fat for muscle). You should read the book The Testosterone Advantage Plan
http://www.amazon.com/The-Testosterone-Advantage-Plan-Weight/dp/0743237919
It's a good thing. My weight is staying the same on cycle and my pants are getting huge and i need to buy new belts.
We got a wifey group; and no "healthy Libido group" lol.
So what are you saying? I should go to the back of the bus?
I'm sorry but I was sitting here first.
I'm on the same bus and quite frankly you are scaring the other passengers. take an empty seat at least lol.
AnonPersonally I never touched gear until into my late twenties due to hypogonadism. I was always of the thought that only lazy fucks used steroids. Lazy fucks and men with poor self image. Turns out I was very wrong. You should reconsider your stance cuz not everyone uses gear to be a bodybuilder. Sorry brother gear is not exclusive to bodybuilding. And anyone who says men in my scenario don't have the god given right to feel like men if their not sub 10% bf I'd like to as politely as possible tell all those people to go f$&@ themselves.
I have fluctuated between 245-255 for the last 5 or so years......I never ever thought id even consider this, but enough is enough....
UFOEveryone below me nailed it...what you should be looking more for is serious Cardio and diet. Def drop the cutstack. While it is a GREAT stack, you have never run a cycle before and that right there throws 3 new compounds in. How will you know which compound is doing what or which is giving you a bad side? Always try and add one new compound each cycle so you know what it does to you and how your body reacts to it. Besides that the masteron in the cut stack would be pointless, you need to be below 10-11% bf to see masterons effects. Honestly Tennessee had one of the best suggestions. If expense is not an issue, get some HGH. The fat buring properties are amazing but you need to run it for many months. No pct is required for it. Maybe one you drop down to closer to 15% bf, then add a test only cycle to add some nice lean muscle. But really there is nothing better than cardio and dtirct diet for dropping fat lbs.
Your BF is too high for AAS right now. There is a lot of information about diet and High Intensity training on this site. Lose about 25lbs and do a Test only cycle later. You can do that. It's just discipline. If you want, add some HGH to help you burn. It seems like that would give you the leanness you want.
Read some more bro. I don't think this is going to go over well as a first cycle. Just my .02
Good luck
I have tried for years to lower body fat. I have reached a plateau. I need some extra help.
AnonBullshit. I know guys who walk around at 20-25% and run gear all year. No gyno no health issues. Wtf do you think power lifters BF is? There's not a power lifter out there competing at single digit bf. Not a single one. And to top it off I know a few guys who's bf was this high and ran a stack and look incredible. Case in point two EBCs ago the Winner used gear to recomp. Don't feed people that hopeless bullshit I see parroted around here. Don't believe me? Look at the EBC recomp champ!
http://www.eroids.com/ebc/blood-sweat-and-tears-motherfuckers-my-first-e...
Pardon my ignorance, but what is a EBC?
These are different situations. Guys who train hard and understand their bodies are different from first time users proposing a multicompound stack. The EBC guy probably read the fuck out of everything he could and knew exactly what to expect along the way. He is not someone who read...some. There are better ways for the OP to reach his goals than this and should be about work ethic first. He's only 36.
There should be no problem with taking a couple months to burn fat and gain knowledge. It's like someone who told me, no need to be impatient. Do it right. Get it right.
Thats the whole point of why Im choosing to go this route. I have done it religiously for about two years now. I cant seem to come down from here. I have slowly added the weight with years, but I have never had an issue with working out hard or dieting. And its not even dieting, Ive actually changed my eating habits and not just a so called diet.
I do intense cardio.....I run about 3 miles every other day in about 30 minutes. I also jump rope and do HIT training at times during my runs. At one point, I was running 6 miles in about 59 minutes. Still the weight does not come off.
Read up on the HGH bro. I would have just ran that but I didn't want to end up under 185lbs. I'm down to just a little brown fat in my middle but my abs are poking through now and i'm over 195. I'm going to post my first pic soon. It sounds like you just want to burn some fat. So, think about the HGH.
And read Viking's low carb page
http://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/wanna-get-ripped-read-this
DIET is the problem not cardio not excuses not steroids DIET
Thanks for this Carlos. I was in an auto accident a few years back and out of the gym for over a year. I started back at BF > 20% and I geared up and I worked out and the gear really really helped out a lot. This idea that you have to have low BF to run gear successfully if you are trying to lean out is all over everywhere. It's not true at all not in the least bit. I think it's an absolute shame cause it is depriving huge numbers of guys of a really nice experience dieting down on the right compounds from a high BF. It does make people feel hopeless and it's cruel.
UFOOPs point is to stricly shred fat and not gain any weight. I dont think suggesting to not use AAS for this goal is bullshit at all.
AnonAnd? So using a low dose test makes this physically impossible? Your joking right? Fuck me!!!!
UFOWhatd we hit a soft spot here with you? When did I say anything about using a low dose of test would make it impossible to lose bf?? OP posted that he works out on and off for the past cple yrs. He didn't say, I have a super intense training/diet regime down but cannot shred this fat no matter what. What does that mainly say? That he needs to step up training and diet. So anyone that comes to you and says they need to lose weight regardless of their training or eating habits, should run low doses of test??
AnonYour implying that anyone who isn't shredded already should use gear. And I'm telling your your a condescending asshole to tell a person who's obviously looking for help with pushing past his genetic limits. Yes it is a fucking soft spot because I hate assholes who think they are the judge of who gets to use gear. All of you who spit the same bullshit of nobody gets to run gear who isn't already a physical specimen. Are you fucking kidding me? If he was already a physical specimen listening to what he's saying he obviously wouldn't be ready to run AAS!!!! Are you even reading what this guy is writing? Are you unable to grasp the purpose of his thread?
Yeah man this shit is a soft spot for me. You know how many dudes see this post and now feel afraid to post in the open. How they refuse to become active members because they don't want to get flamed or told "I'm the judge and jury cuz I'm aN ALMIGHTY BODYBUILDER and you're not ready because you're lazy"
Fuck dude get off your fucking high horse. I wasn't 36 like this dude when I started gear I was 28. I had a cervical fusion and couldn't hold my hands out at shoulder length for more than 10seconds. I wasn't eating right nor was I in single digits bf. So according to your elitist mentality I should never have been allowed to use gear. Gear was the single reason after my own HEART AND DRIVE that I recovered and reclaimed my fucking life. Soft spot??? Fuck yes this is a soft spot. Get off your high horse and open your eyes. There's plenty of able people besides yourself that are willing to help people. I'm one of them. How about you Actually fucking help people and not show them condemnation for asking for help. So far all you have said is diet and train hard. How bout you actually put your money where your mouth is and say least write up diet for the dude and a training program if you are seriously trying to help.
UFOYoure a fucking joke dude. PLEASE point out in any of my fucking posts where I said it was absolutely no option for this dude to run gear. Did I suggest that he does cardio and diet first, fuck yea I did. In fact, I made another post after OP pointed out that he HAS been working out and dieting his ass off for 2 years, that it would be an OK idea to run a small cycle. But youre too fucking blinded by that ego of yours talking shit to anyone that has a different opinion than you. You know what this board is? A fucking public forum full of bro science and opinions. Everyone has one and a lot of the time they are DIFFERENT. So sorry I didnt agree with your opinion. And because I dont agree with you, you need to flip your shit, call me a condescending asshole that on my high horse and that im making everyone who needs help run and hide?? LOL take your fucking tampon out bro, relax and stop putting words in my mouth like im judging ANYONE on this board.
I have been working out hard and dieting to a T for the past two years. I am by no means lazy nor is it a lack of trying. I just cannot seem to get down. My only problem area is the stomach.
UFOGot ya...well in that case brother maybe you are ready for a small cycle. I misread your post as you not working out much so I figured diet was in the same area. At least you are receptive to all these responses even if its not what you want to hear!
Oh, I dont have a preconceived idea. I have been researching this and thinking about it for several months now. I am by no means dead set on any one strategy. I do know that I want to minimize my risks as much as possible. With the amount of work I put in the gym, I think even a low dose cycle would help me. Im pretty solid right now.....dont let the body fat fool you. I just want to break that plateau.