Gave up my natty card at 50
Hello Everyone,
A little bit about myself. I am 50yo 5’8 (was 5’9 at one point) and currently weigh 162lbs my BF is around 10-12%. I have lifted most of my life and have been physically active coaching and reffing soccer. Recently I went to see a sports doctor to get bloodwork because I was constantly aching and couldn’t recover from my usual workouts. Turns out my test levels were at 540 but my free T was bottomed out at 6.2pg/nL The doctor said it’s time to turn my natty card and offered to put me on TRT. This was a huge deal to me because I have always taken pride in being natural and being able to show the young bucks that even at my age if you work hard and stay disciplined you can achieve the body and health you want.
I made the choice to go for it and agreed to start therapy the day after my 50th. It may have been placebo effect but later that evening I felt the best I have in ten years. Fast forward 7 weeks and my balls are shriveling up and ache. I realize my HPTA is shutting down. I
Regrettably I didn’t do my research before jumping in head first. Now it’s been a scramble to learn as fast as I can. I joined these boards in hopes of learning and continuing on this journey of aging gracefully while maintaining what I can of my strength and virility.
Doc prescribed .7ml of 200mg test C = 140mg test/week. Plus, he prescribed 25mg Clomid two days a week (M&F).
I have discussed with him my current condition and concern over my fellas shrinking along with my aches. I also did have some raging hard burning nipples there for a few days but thankfully that has subsided. After some follow up bloodwork he said I should “ride it out through Christmas”. I asked if I could trade the clomid for HCG. He said it’s too expensive. Wtf?
Anyways, this is what led me here seeking wisdom from others who have learned from their experiences. I found a reliable source and have ordered several 10ml vials of HCG because I want my boys and loads back. Also, ordered some Aromasin to help with any estrogen flare ups.
My plan is stop the clomid and to self administer 250mg of HCG twice a week (Tues&Thr) and keep my regular schedule of 140mg test C until I feel things have normalized and my balls are back to full strength. At that point I will get bloodwork again. I am also probably going to ditch the doc after the first of the year. Crazy prices and I honestly don’t trust him since I believe he put me on a path to fail (after research clomid was never meant to be taken long term…so why did he prescribe it?).
I know this is a long post and I am grateful for any feedback you can give me. Cheers.
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I’m a huge believer in treating the symptoms not the numbers, but 540 really isn’t terrible. I wouldn’t even say it’s bad. Your available testosterone is a different story though. I’d get some further testing done, I’d be suspicious of a much more concerning issue that’s throwing you off. Best of luck with everything bud.
Thanks, Drexl. I appreciate that.
Those are actually pretty good numbers for your age. Simple lifestyle changes would have upped those numbers a bit. Your free T is just below the reference range. No reason to even hop on T. That doctor is a dumb ass then or just trying to make a quick buck. A simple diet change, getting more rest and exercise will boost your numbers up naturally.
Thanks for responding One. Since I am currently running 140mg test c/wk and 25mg clomid x2/wk, what would you suggest I do? I get plenty of exercise, that isn’t an issue with me. Could I use more rest? Sure. It’s difficult when you have 3 kids and work two jobs, one of which has me running a half marathon or more a week, in order to make ends meet.
Should I stop the test injections and begin pct using some of the HCG along with the clomid (I have aromasin/exemestane as well) until my body is in homeostasis?
Maybe once I am back to normal I can consider running my first real cycle. I’ve always had a very difficult time putting on mass. I agreed to do the trt because I was always sore and achy. The test really did make me feel great again.
I appreciate any insight.
This has BS written all over it.
My post is 100% true. Why would I come here and lie? Tell me what I can do to prove it
Now do you believe me?
I believe your doctor isn't an endo doc and probably from a men's health clinic where the title "Doctor" is used very loosely, like "Doctor Jill Biden." If he's your Primary Practitioner, you should sue him.
I will admit he is not my primary doctor. I was referred to him by a friend. I didn’t go based solely on my friends recommendations. I looked him up and saw only good reviews. I figured, like most boomers my age, that I could trust him to care for me and not only be in it for a quick buck. I really need solid advice on what I should do? Should I stop the trt and do some pct with HCG and clomid? Or should I give it more time as the “doc” suggests? I could really use some guidance.
IMO, yes, and see your regular doc. TRT gets old fast no need to jump on that bandwagon. It could be 10 years plus before you need TRT.
Regroup, and if interested learn about doing cycles with PCT until that day comes where TRT is required.
Thanks for helping Greg.
Since it seems I am already on a very low “cycle”, would it be OK to increase the test c dosages and run a full cycle? Or is time a factor here that I have already been running a mild dose for 6+ weeks? Basically, getting the cycle out of the way, recovering. Then reflect whether I would want to ever do another one in the future.
Thanks again for helping out.
EDIT: Are yearly cycles a thing? Cycle once during the winter then PCT until next year.
There’s your proof. Anyone who saw it before I could crop it knows my real name, too. Thanks for publicly calling me out
I can’t imagine a doctor putting you on TRT when your Test was 540. As far as I know, those are good natural numbers. Start off by finding a new Doctor
Did you miss the part where it was based off my free T which was only 6.2pg/nL? I agree, though. I still think what he has me on is not the best plan. Which is why I am here
My T was in low 400's, with a free Test of 5.1, horrific signs/symptoms, lost 20 pounds of muscle mass, in the medical field mind you, and still couldn't get TRT without going the Endo route and all the red tape. So I think you need to find a more knowledgeable physician for starters, for your own sake. And there is a lot of info to READ, research and learn here on exactly what your looking for bro.
That sounds terrible. My regular test was 540 and now it’s up to 765. I agree I a need to find a new doc. This is why I am here asking questions to get it in line while I search.
I think you and your doc jumped the gun on TRT so soon. Sounds like you went to one of those TRT clinics. I would have tried this first before any TRT.
https://www.eroids.com/forums/general/general-talk/natural-routes-to-low...
Clomid & HCG are not interchangeable. In fact, HCG will raise your estrogen, not lower it, and that’s what the Clomid is for essentially. If you add HCG, you’ll also want to adjust your Clomid or grab some tamoxifen. There are other options, as well, but the main takeaway here is that if you’re already seeing signs of high E, the HCG will exacerbate this.
Thanks for responding Boomba. I was under the impression clomid was meant to keep natural testosterone production functioning. Will the aromasin be sufficient or is tamoxifen absolutely necessary? Every time I feel I have a grasp something gets mentioned and I am confused all over again. To be clear, this is what I was planning on running.
140 test c 1/wk
250 HCG x2/wk
Aromasin when high estrogen sides happen. Stop when they are gone
If you have high estro sides on TRT it means your test dose is too high, your body is not in homeostasis and long term (which TRT is) it is not healthy.
Basically, it’s like I’m on a little blast? Would you suggest lowering and finding where I level off? The doc thinks I should give it through Christmas. The other confusing thing is that over the past six weeks I’ve felt amazing aside from my balls shrinking. The small flare up of the nips passed quickly.
I would request some bloodwork now to see where things are at. Plenty of time has passed for peak saturation and if having flare ups something needs to be looked at and likely adjusted. Can't believe he said wait it out till xmas.
I have blood work from last week. What would you like to know?
Don’t get discouraged it takes time to dial this stuff in for optimal results. You had pretty decent numbers for natural but at 51 I feel better with my levels at 1600.
HCG took some time for me to figure out as well. I ended up doing it with my testosterone every other day @250 mcg
Thank you for the encouragement. I thought my natty levels were good, too. Obviously this prevents my “therapy” from being covered by my insurance even with my free T level in the shitter. I planned on dosing the exact same at 250 twice a week. Did you experience and sides or positive effects from the HCG? Are you cruising or blasting? I currently have no plans to blast. I am hoping that 140 a week plus the HCG should get me over 1000. Doc said he is shooting for 900. Again, thanks for the help
540 natural is amazing level. Your dr should of looked at the free test and causes.
He believed m SHBG levels (61.2nmoles/L) were suppressing the free t.
Exactly. Thats the root problem and not the testosterone levels. So you add testostetone from a bottle and that was not the problem then the sbgh just raises higher. Estrogen raises. Fat accumulates. Etc etc. I would no do trt and find the root cause. Theres food choices that can lower sbgh. As will low bodyfat and good exercise.
Interesting. I believe my diet is pretty good and my BF % shouldn’t be the issue, as well as exercise. Can we post pics on this site? Which foods can raise SHBG’s?