+ 3 Warmup before heavy weights, lower back pain and how do you get rid of it?
I was wondering, how do you guys warmup before heavy squats or deadlifts? As I'm aging, my joints and lower back pain is getting worse, which sometimes hold me back from training as heavy as I want. My main concern in last two years is my bad knee (3x surgery) and a lower back pain that comes back after every heavy session of legs, no matter what I do and it lasts up to several weeks. I tried dynamic warmups, static stretches before & after as well as hundereds of hours with my chiropractor, nothing seems to really help long-term.
I usualy don't feel pain during my training session, after I warmup with some jumping, boxing and few really light sets before going heavier, but it all comes after training, when body calms down.
I didn't pay much attention to warmups, when I was younger, I didn't feel the urge to do so, maybe that's the cause?
Did anyone here actually got rid off lower back / knee pain permanently? How did you achieved that?
Or should I just accept the fact that I'm fucking slowly dying and these are the symptoms....?
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If you are squatting heavy. Possibly check your form cuz when some people squat they don't keep their back straight up and down and when they are coming back up from a squat they are kind of lifting the weight back up with your lower back muscle a little bit. So make sure your form is good. But also when you are squatting your are using your back muscle to help keep your form straight so sometimes some people will just naturally have some back pain. But a stretch for my lower back that I do is like a stiff legged deadlift when your feet are together and hands close together on the bar. (This exercise is for your back and for hamstrings) but if you kind of lean forward and take the pressure off your hamstrings all the weight is pulling on your lower back and I will just kind of hang with the weight a little.bit off the ground so it's pulling on my lower back mostly and stretching it, and do a few slow reps leaned forward so most of the weight is focused on your lower back and not your hamstrings. It's kind of hard to explain but that was the best I could do to explain the exercise but how to use it as a stretch. Hope some of this helps a little. I don't have any advice for your knees other than try to take some collagen supplements and also everybody's knees are slightly different so you might have to adjust your form like how far apart your feet are and if you might want to try to angle your feet in or out a little.but depending on your bone structure and what feels good cuz everybody will have a slightly different form that feels good for them because of their.bone structure. Hope this helps a little
Thanks Daddy! I will try this lower back stretch with some little weight on the barbell, I think I understand how you mean it.
Had an injury after snapping my shit up from deadlifting. Rack pulls helped a lot. Takes out the leg so more focus on the lower back. Start low build it up, but dont go full gorilla on the weights. See it as an exercise to help and maintain lowerback strenght, not to build. As an oldtimer I still use low weight rackpulls as warm up.
Good excersise, powerlifters use them a lot, to improve upper end of the deadlift movement. I never thought of them as a warmup excersise thought. Might give them a try!
I would err on the side of caution there bud with replacing a full deadlift from the ground with a rack pull for warming up, you are missing out so much muscle that is not becoming engorged with blood. I think going from that into full deadlifts is a bad idea. Fine if you are just going to continue with rack pulls in the workout. Watch some of John Haacks deadlift warming up on the ground with his foam roller, also his training partner Andy huang.
I would definitely not consider that as a full deadlift warmup either. Maybe starting with rack pulls, then enleghten the movement to the ground with an light weight full ROM deadlift would be the way to go safest...
For squats I'll do just freestanding body weight squats , then 2 sets of empty bar and then start adding weight. Bench I start with 2 sets of 20 of the bar then 135 for 20 then start my working sets. At almost 40 I've learned the value of getting that blood moving and muscles stretched out.
wise of you buddy. We're at about that same age, I know what you mean....
That's the approach I always did, just now with all that pain comming from nowhere, I was wondering whether there would be an space for improvement of such routine. Find out that I might not even have to squat or go crazy heavy to build them legs....
I had chronic lower back pain for years and just realized that it’s caused by tight erectors and lower back muscles ! Since I started to foam roll these areas it’s almost gone ! The foam rolling is painful as hell but it’s worth it
Just did a solid stretch and about 15 minutes of just foam rolling that area today, the day after I trained legs. Feels good! Another activity I wish I had more time for.
Yes after the foam rolling I feel like newborn
Foam rolling is like spending an hour in a Torture chamber!! Lol I like to do it on the upper back occasionally to open the ribs and spine up - I'll never forget the first ever time I did it and stretched my upper body over it with my hands behind my head and it let out this massive crack from my ribs like a thud!! LMAO I was like Chrrissttt!! lol Another good one is to do the peanut ball up the central spine.
Its not that bad for me. I have a lot of muscle (and fat obviously) so it doesn't hurt that much I couldn't stand it. Central spine massage with a ball is worse for me personally, because there's less contact area resulting in more concentrated pressure.
Probably not related but I recently had back pain that I swear felt like muscle pain until I realized it was my kidneys hurting! Apparently I was taking too much vitamin C and calcium vitamins which caused a buildup of oxalate salts that end up crystallizing in kidneys (tiny kidney stones). Doc told me to stop with vitamins and sure enough pain went away. Ran tests and all is a ok now. I spent a month trying to figure out why my back hurt without any apparent injury. Just an FYI.
Damn I like my Vitamin C!!! How much were you taking per day?
2000 mg total. 1000 in am and pm. It was the solid pills, doc said gummies or dietary vitamin c easier to absorb. Same with calcium - best to get from diet! I like it too I'm still off all vitamins except multi since this was recent, but going to try the gummies soon and tone down to only a gram a day.
Yeh maybe that is a little high - I like to do 1 gram per day for tendons, liver, and immune system in the form of powder you get from the supp shops. I like the sour taste of it too lol
Same about the taste I would look forward to the gummies since they're on par with good candy lol. They were expensive so I opted for the solid pills. This happened after only a month of taking them! I was so freaked out when I realized it was kidneys. Got a free CT scan due to it and my uro (who is also TRT doc) took a good look at all my organs and got the all clear so that's reassuring given our lifestyle lol.
The pain subsided to nothing within 3 days of stopping the vitamins. Wild.
That's interesting man, I'm glad to hear that you are better now!
Thanks it was kinda scary for sure! I was surprised how similar the pain is to a strained muscle. Pretty much identical until the pain spread to flank and even abdomen on a day where I got bloated from eating pizza and pop with my kids.
I suppose that's when you decided to see a doc? I'm wondering what could have happen if you just ignored that henceforward. Scary shit
Yes I was able to pinpoint the pain with the abdominal bloating and lost a bit of sleep that night from anxiety. Some google research suggested kidney stones which eased my mind a bit prior to getting in with doc 2 days later. I'm lucky large stones didn't have time to form. I'd assume if I hadn't caught it I would be dealing with stones that need special procedures to remove and potentially even cause lasting kidney damage.
The pain actually started in both sides of my back at first, but that soon migrated to only the right side. That should've been an early warning for me that it was in fact kidneys, but I didn't have the guile to ascertain that at the time.
At the visit the doc detected blood in my urine which prompted the CT scan. Peeing wasn't even painful, though, maybe just a slightly above normal warm sensation when urine passed thru the urethra.
Good to hear such good ending mate. I'Ve had my kidney stones removed about 20 years ago, when I was doing a lot of alcohol and recreational drugs too and these stones caused worse pain in my life. That laparoscopy to remove them was a piece of cake and a long expected relief...
If the pain is central and/or symmetrical, then you can try doing prone pressups. Look up the work by Robin McKenzie. He is the godfather of treating herniated discs
I've had to google what that even means mate :D. looks similar working principle to a "cobra possition" static stretches that I do regularly though. I'm trying these today, to see if its any different. Thanks for a solid tip!
TricepatopsI can't do any squats do to problems in spine and shoulder but I do other leg exercises but I do lighter weight with slow reps and strict form because of hip or lower back problems. Arnold mentioned this guy who was the strongest guy he has ever meet but that guy would not do heavy lifting all the time once a month or so. But he would do reps in the hundreds for some exercises. I tried this approach and the next day I could hardly walk. I really liked doing it this way because my joints didn't hurt and I was making gains. Getting old sucks but there is so many other ways to gain muscle or weight without lifting heavy.
TricepatopsFirst you need to know what is causing the back pain before you can get an answer or solution to it. Once you know what's causing the prob then you can use the tools to fix it until then it is like putting gas in a car that is full but it still won't start even though you think it is out of gas.
He mentioned he was diagnosed with a protrusion at L2/3 part of spine. I'm no doctor but that might be his problem. As you know the cartilage cushioning the vertebra usually wears thinner over the years due to both age and whatever inflammation that occurred. Now nothing cushioning those nerves
TricepatopsOk. I didn't see it mentioned until I went through the comments more. Probably is that and with that not alot you can do. Massages and all the other stuff might help pain but it won't help heal it. So going heavy only going to put more pressure and damage it more.
All good man. Yea I agree you don't wanna damage it more. Damn injuries
Ever seen a sports masseur? Might be worth a try. I’ve got quite a few aches and pains, hip, knee, shoulder, couple of dodgy discs. I find the sports masseur helps minimise the amount of time I’m out of the gym.
I think as we get older we have to learn how to work around these things. That’s what I do. Certain things I just can’t do these days, but most I can, sometimes by adapting. Like others have said, up the volume and decrease the weight, see if that helps. Bad knees and going heavy in squat racks isn’t a great combination.
I visit my chiropractor two to four times a month, he has incredible hands, fixed many squeaks or blockings. Also helped me with the posture and taught me how to improve squat stability with the help of a finger spacers, but for my kind of back pain, he's helpless. I really enjoy dry needling therapy twice a month for muscle soreness, that's my seccond favorite relax, after sauna.
TricepatopsDry needling is nice if you can find a good person who really knows what they are doing. I have pain in my between my scapulas and finding someone to do dry needling in that area is hard. Afraid of puncturing the lungs.
That pain could likely be coming from the cervical spine, not the thoracic spine. Try looking up “cervical retraction with extension in sitting” and see if it helps. Have to at least try 3 x 10 to know if it will or won’t help. Make sure you have impeccable form too. Let me know how it goes
hi bro i hope you are well. I quit deadlift a long time ago. It constantly hurts me. I do squats with light-medium weights . I don't think both moves are essential.
damn heavy weights definitely don't work for me. I generally focus on muscle damage. Pain is the key to muscle growth for me. I don't care much for reps and weights.
Hi mate, yeah I decided to give this approach a try as well. Just got back from the gym and my legs are on fire, even though I feel like a lazy fuck who did not put maximum effort into a training because of absence few heavy ass sets. But definitely feels better for my knee and lower back. I'll stick to this for a few weeks and we'll se if I can heal a bit....
Just popping in to say that my lower back pain that I though was caused by lazy warmups and too heavy loads turned out to be an actual lumbago from a protrusion that was diagnosed in a CT. It's indistinguishable from regular soreness from, say, hyperextension.
Might be pain from my disc herniation as well, I have that diagnosed between L2 and L3... But will I give up on lifting because of that? nope....
First time you mentioned protrusion at L2/L3 disk. I commented on that earlier. I'm willing to bet that's your problem. Of course it will hurt because those nerves have unnatural pressure being applied to them. The cartilage of the problematic disk eventually wears away now there's zero cushioning. Major problem!
I agree with you that I bet his issue is with the L2/L3 disc. The cartilage is on the top and bottom of the vertebrae, my brother. The disc height is lost from loss of fluid over the years, also loss of nuclear material inside the center of the disc…think of it like a jelly filled donut. Yes, DeeMan I agree that once the cushioning from the cartilage is gone, there is no going back. HOWEVER, core strengthening and spinal stabilization exercises will help support the bony structures and give more support to an arthritic spine. Takes time though. This can help relieve pressure on those peripheral nerves. Keeping in mind that the outer 1/3rd of the disc is innervated so that even a Slight disc bulge can cause central lower back pain. As long as there is no extrusion of nuclear material from the center of the disc to outside the disc, then there is hope for recovery…a full recovery too!
Man what you talkin bout WILLIS? You like that?
See my edited comment below.
Lol my brother this is known what you're saying but much appreciated and the community appreciates this added info also. But you're right. Yes the cartilage is on top and bottom of vertebrae, that's the position it needs to be in order to protect the vertabrae and nerves. The body is a wonderful organism. My point was the disk can thin out over the years as a result of wear and tear or a dramatic inflammatory event to the spine, that's known my brother. I agree core strengthening and spinal stabilization exercises can help as I'm familiar with them my man, it's better than the alternative which is doing nothing. Now yes you mention slight disc bulge can cause back pain but lets state why. Because the bulge or vertebrae starts to put pressure on spinal nerves. After this straight pain city eventually. Spondylosis is a common condition among athletes.
Not diagnosing this gentle but just saying. Basically I put everything in simple terms. Anyways there is hope for this brother and I wish him well.
Yes, definitely true DeeMan, but what I have seen on MRI scans is a patient with a disc bulge, without encroachment on the peripheral nerves, yet still complains of sharp intense back pain AS IF it were to be pinching a nerve. However this patient didn’t have any peripheralization or radiculopathy down the extremity. So what’s the source of this persons pain? It was the actual disc itself bc there were tears in the annular fibers, and the outer 1/3 of the discs are innervated, hence the pain. And yes, DeeMan and I are not trying to diagnose, but simply give our advice and input. DeeMan makes a a lot of great points. I may have missed it, but did Gym/BikesBro say he had spondylosis? If so, then he really needs to work on core stabilization. I like your input Dee. Smart man!
I gotcha, I see where you're going with this. An Annular Tear is often the precursor to a bulging disc. He mentioned a protrusion at L2/3 but no he didn't mention spondylosis, I just threw it out there simply because it's common among athletes. Again I didn't diagnose. Lol I'm no Doctor. Honestly I don't feel comfortable giving medical advice and I probably won't do it again because folks tend to run with what they are told instead of seeing a Doctor. Not saying this is the case with this brother. You gave good accurate info though Gabriel!
Very informative from both of you DeeMan and Gabriel Willis, thank you both! I'll keep this on my mind when lifting. I really need to focus on my core muscles arround the spine more... Also thank you for the hope for recovery words, these are important to me!
Wish u well
Has your gym got one of those Reverse-hyper machines? They are supposed to be excellent for stretching the lower back out again after deads. I guess if it did you'd be using it though lol. They are more an American thing though I think because of Westside.
I love the reverse hyper. Feels good the way it stretches out the spine.
yes, we have that in the gym, unfortunately its positioned at really stupid place. I don't enjoy my but being out in front of everyone else in the gym. Women looks okay doing that, I don't.
Context is everything. I see you mentioned a disk protrusion. See my comment on top of these few comments above.