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+ 41 Can Berberine replace Metformin - Insulin sensitivity and a host of other benefits

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This one’s a doozy. But in this write-up, we’ll examine the many benefits of Berberine including improved insulin sensitivity, and if it can replace Metformin (Glucophage) as a safer alternative.

What is Metformin?

Metformin, aka Metformin HCL, aka Metformin hydrochloride, aka Glucophage, is a drug given to people with non-insulin dependent type 2 diabetes to help bring down their blood glucose levels and improve insulin sensitivity. In other words, their body still makes insulin, it just stinks at using it. (1)

It can also sometimes be used in conjunction with insulin in non-insulin dependent type 2 diabetes, and even rarely in select patients with insulin dependent type 2 diabetes. (2)

What does metformin do?

Metformin works to lower your blood glucose levels. It does this in a couple ways.
1) cuts down on the amount of glucose your liver kicks out
2) improves your insulin sensitivity, specifically how sensitive your muscles are to insulin
3) cuts down on how much glucose you absorb through the food you eat. (1, 3)

Metformin's use in bodybuilding.

There are legit uses for metformin in bodybuilding, and they're very similar and/or directly related to why it is beneficial for diabetics. I mean who doesn't want to have awesome insulin sensitivity, right? Your muscles are more sensitive to insulin so they scoop up glucose better, allowing for that pump we all love. Your muscles can then make better use of that nutrition they're holding after you damage them after training. It helps your body make much better use of glucose, which will allow users to eat more carbs without worrying as much about it turning to fat. And, because extended HGH use can cause cause a rise in insulin resistance (4), Metformin can help mitigate this shitty side effect of HGH.

However, metformin is not without it's own set of side effects.

Side effects of Metformin

From drugs.com (5). You can read the giant list on your own, but here are the highlights.
- abdominal pain
- decreased appetite
- diarrhea
- fast/shallow breathing
- fever/chills
- lower back pain
- muscle pain/cramping
- painful urination
- lethargy
- anxiety
- blurred vision
- confusion
- depression
- seizures
- shakiness
- slurred spray
- tightness in chest
- loss of strength
- excess gas in stomach or intestines
- flu like symptoms

1-10% hypoglycemia
Very rare >0.01% Lactic acidosis (serious shit)

That ends it for drugs.com.

Top those off with what should concern us hormone-wise:
- decrease total and free testosterone in non-diabetic men (6)
- downregulation of androgen receptors (not desensitizing the receptors... literally gets rid of androgen receptors… gross) (7)

Now if you're on exogenous testosterone anyway those two are probably a wash, but I wouldn't fuck with the stuff if you're natty, and DEFINITELY not during PCT.

"But wait! Could there be a herbal OTC alternative that is just as, or possibly even more effective than metformin?"

Well little Jimmy, there is! You may be in luck. Let me tell you about Berberine.

What is berberine?

Berberine is an extract from a berry shrub called Berberis Vulgaris, aka common Barberry, aka European barberry, aka Barberry, hailing from Southern Europe, Africa and Western Asia. (8)

It's being studied for its anti-aging, anti-diabetic and anti-cancer properties. And all it takes is a quick Google to see that more and more diabetics have been successfully replacing their metformin with berberine.

Using berberine in place of metformin?

So how did I stumble on this shit? You may or may not be asking yourself... I was researching new ways to increase my insulin sensitivity. I already do the standards like improving omega 6:3 ratio, drinking apple cider vinegar, green tea, cutting out simple carbs, etc. and thought "well, what do diabetics do?” I started looking at supps for diabetics and researching the ingredients, and found two very strong candidates. One being berberine and the other gymnemma (maybe another post one day? We’ll see. This was a lot of fucking work).

Berberine was the strongest since there were tons of articles, controlled medical studies, and forum posts of diabetics and doctors claiming berberine was just as effective as metformin, with some swapping out one for the other with great success. You can do the googling yourself if you want to hear the personal accounts or read the articles, but I'll sum it up for you, mainly the medical studies since the proof is in the pudding.

Studies show berberine's effects not only match metformin, but can eclipse it....
Ok, here's where the fun shit starts. Although we don't really hear about it, scientists have been sciencing the balls out of Berberine and its comparability to Metformin for years...

In one study, 74 patients (there were a few more, but a couple dropped out and others where kicked out for being lazy with their drugs and not following directions, because why would they?) with newly diagnosed type 2 diabetes were split into two groups. One group received 500mgs of Berberine three times daily after meals, and Group B received 500mg of Metformin three times daily after meals. I'm going to copy and paste this part instead of summarizing so I don't fuck it up:

Compared with metformin, berberine exhibited an identical effect in the regulation of glucose metabolism, such as HbA1c, FBG, PBG, fasting insulin and postprandial insulin. In the regulation of lipid metabolism, berberine activity is better than metformin. By week 13, triglycerides and total cholesterol in the berberine group had decreased and were significantly lower than in the metformin group (P<0.05).(9)

So that's what's up...

Another study (that i would have had to purchase for the details, but we at least get the abstract) proved that Berberine given to humans with type 2 diabetes lowered their fasting blood glucose, hemoglobin A1C (super important measure in diabetes), triglyceride, and insulin levels similar to the level Metformin and Rosiglitazone does. It did this by increasing the expression of the insulin receptor (aka improving sensitivity). It also improved liver enzymes and liver function. Again, I don't wanna mess this part up:

Our results confirmed the activity of BBR on InsR in humans and its relationship with the glucose-lowering effect. Together with our previous report, we strongly suggest BBR as an ideal medicine for T2DM (Type 2 diabetes mellitus). (10)

But wait, there's more!

Another study investigated Berberines effect on both metabolic disorders like diabetes and cardiovascular disease. It not only confirmed what the other studies found, that's it's awesome at lowering glucose, nutrient partitioning and improving insulin sensitivity to the same level as metformin, BUT also demonstrated effects on the AMPK activity involved in cardiovascular disorders. Concluding...

In fact, widely used drugs, including statins, metformin and rosiglitazone, execute CV protective effects though the activation of AMPK. The demonstrated efficacy in dyslipidemia and the promising antiarrhythmic activity make BBR a candidate for further study to provide new insights for therapeutic purpose. (11)

Another study used only 24 people with metabolic syndrome. 12 got 500mg of Berberine 3 times a day before meals, the other 12 got a placebo. No change was shown in the placebo group. The Berberine group had a 36% remission of metabolic disorder, their waist shrunk, systolic blood pressure, total insulin secretion and triglycerides all were lowered, and insiulin sensitivity improved. (12)

Wham-O!

Lipid improvement? Yes please!

Yet another study looked at Berberines effect on the blood lipid profile. The study gave subjects two 500mg doses a day of either Berberine or placebo for 3 months. Then they took them off for 2 months as a “wash out period”, then started up the treatment again for another 3 months. Results?

A decrease of body weight and BMI was observed after the run-in period. Berberine reduced total cholesterol, triglycerides and LDL cholesterol and increased HDL cholesterol after 3 months from randomization and compared with placebo. After the washout period, lipid profile worsened; afterward, when berberine was reintroduced, lipid profile improved again both compared with the washout period, and with placebo. (13)

They concluded it was effective and safe for low risk patients.

I know... You're all like "Holy shit, D... are there ANY downsides?!"

Dangers/sides of berberine?

Berberine has an extremely low toxicity – Yay!

Some gastrointestinal discomfort was found for a few patients in one of the studies above (I think (9)?). That was mitigated by dropping the dose to 300mgs 3 times daily instead of 500mgs. So you may experience cramping, diarrhea, or nausea. (I didn't, but you might)

I found these drug interactions in another article about sides and stacks that already did the research for me and cited said research in the article (14)

  • Berberine lowers blood sugar and can increase the effects of other drugs that perform the same task.

  • Berberine inhibits cytochromes CYP2D6, CYP2C9, and CYP3A4. These cytochromes are the targets of a large number of medications, so check that you're not taking something that targets one of those.

  • "Berberine has a powerful effect on anion transporter proteins in the cell membrane. A few medications use these transporters to access your cells and deliver their effects. One important medication is Metformin" (14)

  • Dangerous interaction with macrolide antibiotics. "The Berberine toxicity occurs at hERG channels in the heart. There is a potential for serious negative health effects in these interactions. (14)"

So don't mix it with any of those.

Also, webMD says don't give it to babies. So don't do that either. But really, you'd kind of be an asshole if you did anyway...

The one downside I can find is that it's bioavailability isn't super awesome. In fact it's the opposite of super awesome. In theory, if the bioavailability can be improved, maybe less can be taken and that would cut down on anyone experiencing gastrointestinal issues. BUT I found a way that should improve that too!

Improving bioavailability

While the studies dosed orally and it still worked, we can make it even better. Studies show that P-glycoprotein is a real cock-block when it comes to absorbing Berberine in the intestines, and that the use of a P-glycoprotien inhibitor increased absorption 6-fold in rats (15).

Problem solver? Milk Thistle! Studies show that milk thistle (silymarin) does a good job at inhibiting p-glycoprotein, therefore improving Berberine’s bioavailability. (16, 17)

They sell one Berberine supp on Amazon with silymarin (the active ingredient in milk thistle that does all the great things milk thistle is known for) already in it. But you can also just take it together with it if you have it around... which I'm sure a lot of you do.

Benefits of taking berberine instead of metformin?

A lot less possible sides, no known dangers for the kidney and it's cheaper. And legal. And OTC. No effect on Natural Test, or Free Test, or androgen receptors, or TSH... So there you have it.

But, will it perform as well for bodybuilding purposes?

Will it work for our purposes?

Ahhh the million dollar question... and the one that I did ZERO research on aside for trying it myself. In theory, yes. Unlike all of our other "tools", we use metformin at "normal" studied dosages. Berberine works just as well and extremely similarly to metformin in diabetics and normal people, so why not for bodybuilding purposes? Want to keep your muscles fuller during low carb dieting? Try berberine! GH use got your insulin sensitivity down? Try berberine! etc. etc.

I tried it for 2 months and I leaned out and had great pumps. That being said, I was also on 535mg of Test and 50mgs of Anavar at the time... so that would have happened anyway. But maybe it added to it? Not really a fair way to test it. I ordered more and will be giving it another go now that I'm off and will update this post with the results. In theory, I should be able to get a better pump, eat more carbs without gaining fat, or trim my waist a bit if I stick to normal carbs... just like one would report with metformin. Alas (Alas? Did I come over on the Mayflower?), only time will tell.

I will say that a couple times I didn't eat carbs in the morning while taking it on cycle. I felt a little hypo and it was fixed by taking in 30g of some simple carbs. Maybe in my head? Can't be 100% sure, but I'd like to think not.

Be a Guinea Pig with me!

I'd love for anyone interested to give this supplement a shot and report back with the details. Especially metformin guys, for an even better comparison! If you report back with your experience here or in a PM, I'll make sure to keep this updated with real world results (or lack there of). I'm sure there are varying qualities of this product out there on the market, and only the real shit will give us real answers, so go with a brand you trust!

I enjoyed putting this together. I hope you guys enjoyed reading it and found it informative. I know it was long and possibly boring to anyone that isn't me.

And I REALLY hope that I can update this in a couple months with some of your experiences in a final section to properly wrap it up. Maybe something good will come out of it.

Thanks to Makwa for encouraging me to write this. No homo.

Citations:

  1. WebMD - Drugs - Metformin HCL (http://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-11285-7061/metformin-oral/metformin-or...)

  2. Combination therapy with insulin and metformin (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15251717/)

  3. Glucophage (Metformin) and Diabetes (http://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes-medication/glucophage.html)

  4. Growth hormone replacement therapy induces insulin resistance by activating the glucose-fatty acid cycle (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/12679422/)

  5. Drugs.com - Metformin side effects (https://www.drugs.com/amp/sfx/metformin-side-effects.html)

  6. Effects of short term metformin administration on androgens in normal men.
    (http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=13918081)

  7. Metformin represses androgen-dependent and androgen-independent prostate cancers by targeting the androgen receptor.
    (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/25894097/)

  8. Wikipedia - Berberis Vulgaris (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berberis_vulgaris)

  9. Efficacy of Berberine in Patients with Type 2 Diabetes (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2410097/)

  10. Berberine lowers blood glucose in type 2 diabetes mellitus patients through increasing insulin receptor expression (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0026049509003163)

  11. Cardiovascular and metabolic effects of Berberine (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2999047/#!po=54.9180)

  12. Effect of Berberine Administration on Metabolic Syndrome, Insulin Sensitivity, and Insulin Secretion (http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/pdf/10.1089/met.2012.0183)

  13. Effects of berberine on lipid profile in subjects with low cardiovascular risk. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23441841/)

  14. Taking Berberine? Look out for these 3 sides and 3 great stacks! (https://liftmode.com/blog/berberine-side-effects/#_ftn4)

  15. The involvement of P-glycoprotein in berberine absorption (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/12530470/)

  16. Herbal modulation of P-glycoprotein (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15072439/)

  17. Inhibition of P-glycoprotein by natural products in human breast cancer cells (https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF02977349?LI=true)

DfromPhilly's picture

Heartburn from it or helping it?

Pale's picture

I believe from it. I normally have an iron gut but after I discontinued metformin I had to go through a couple months of acid reflux (which I had never even had before). Since I have went on berberine I have noticed that acidy feeling quite a bit more and it gets worse if I forget to take it.

DfromPhilly's picture

Damn that blows. It's weird because I didn't come across anything that listed or mentioned that side, in fact there was a study were they looked at it for treating acI'd reflux but I had a little myself for a week or so. That happens to me about twice a year tho so I just chalked it up to that... maybe it was the Berberine.

Aside from Shitty heartburn, how's it working out for you?

I'm super interested in your feedback since you swapped them out and can actually compare one to the other.

Pale's picture

For me I think it is still too early, it has only been a few weeks.

DfromPhilly's picture

i dig. keep me posted boss

Sam I Am's picture

There's some sharp guys on this forum. Phillys one of those guys.

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DfromPhilly's picture

Thanks buddy. My reply to GrowMore below applies to you too.

GrowMore's picture

Keep us posted brother. As always with you great input.

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DfromPhilly's picture

Thanks boss. I've gotten some really nice comments on this from people I respect a lot, you and Sam now included (No homo). I don't know that it's deserved but it's certainly appreciate it.

I haven't received much feedback but have been keeping tabs on the little hints I see (like the one below this) and my own progress. I'm hoping I get some from others over the next month or two so I can update the post with a summary of results instead of just a quick update here and there. (Although I'll continue to provide those either way)

Thanks again for the kind words. Hopefully this works for some people. That'll be the real reward. I'm digging it so far myself.

pattar's picture

I have been taking 500mg of berberine with a couple of big carb meals a day during PCT, along with 2IU of HgH, and the combination seems to be doing a great of keeping the muscle on and the fat off. A question I have is has anybody followed John Meadow's suggestion of taking a few weeks off from berberine every few months. He states that he found that it loses its effectiveness after a while.

DfromPhilly's picture

I haven't seen this in any of my research (that being said I haven't read anything from John Meddows). The only thing I saw on "cycling" or losing it's effectiveness over time was a response to the question on a diabetes message board from one of the board doctors:

Berberine and Metformin both work over the long term, not acutely, so I don't think you really see tolerance to either, and there are people who have taken Metformin for many years and I don't recall people saying its effects lessen over time. If this were the case then the interval would be a fairly short one to failure. When you cycle off this stuff the effects lessen right away and the benefits disappear in several weeks, and then not only do the medicines not work better initially, you have to build them back up in your body to get to full effectiveness again. So personally I don't worry about the need to cycle here.

https://www.diabetesdaily.com/forum/type-2-diabetes/85879-safer-berberin...

That beings said, I've yet to eclipse the 8 week mark with this supplement, so I can't speak from personal experience. In theory though, if metformin does not loose effectiveness over time, neither should berberine, since they act in the same manor.

pattar's picture

Thanks. Meadow's was speaking from a perspective of personal usage and what he saw.

DfromPhilly's picture

Yea that's interesting. I did see one doc mention to take 2 weeks off after every 8 weeks to prevent the effects on some receptor that Berberine can have that interferes with other prescription drugs efficacy. Maybe it made something else he was taking less effective that was working toward a similar goal? Or everyone is different, so maybe that's just how he responded.

I appreciate the feedback and will look into it more and see if I notice anything my self. It's nice to see that a successful guy like him believes in it, unless he's just trying to sell supps.

Thanks for posting your progress and please keep us updated with your final thoughts/experience.

pattar's picture

Well he does (or did..) have a supplement which includes berberine but I doubt he would say to take time off
from that supplement if he didn't really mean it ; )

DfromPhilly's picture

Fair enough. To be clear I'm not trashing the guy or discrediting that info from him. I'm glad you posted that cuz now I have another thing to look out for. Just also trying to look at everything from all angles. Just like everything else it could be down to the individual.

DfromPhilly's picture

For those that are interested, I had bloodwork done for other reasons and my glucose level was lower than normal.

usually I know I'm getting bloodwork done and go in fasted and it's high 80's low 90's.

this time i was not planning on it, but decided to go, after eating breakfast that morning and about a half hour after a giant scoop of skippy natural and some horizon chocolate milk (both with simple carbs obviously) and it was 83.

not too bad after 1 month. It seems to at least be doing something. Leaning out a bit too on maintenance and muscles are pretty full for being off cycle.

Will continue hanging around maintenance, and hopefully lean out a little more if I'm lucky, til mid-to-late September when I start my bulk.

Droid2017's picture

Thats great. Hopefully, no risk of lowering blood sugar to dangerously low levels if one doesnt eat simple carbs with it.

DfromPhilly's picture

I don't think so. I doubt I was ever out of range so far. I've felt good the whole time. Maybe if it's stacked, who knows. But so far so good.

Droid2017's picture

Ok good to know. Mine is coming soon... will definitely give it a try

Droid2017's picture

any thoughts on this: seems like this has Berberine, cinnamon, bioprene etc...

https://blackstonelabs.com/products/glycolog

DfromPhilly's picture

I do have a couple thoughts.
I don't trust that company and wouldn't be confident that it actually has the full doses of quality ingredients that it says it does.
Seems a little Willy Nilly, like they just googled what improves insulin sensitivity and started throwing shit in as they went down the list.
Not enough Berberine per serving.
They're raping you on the price, you could buy the ingredients and stack them at their correct dosages for less per serving.

If you want to stack things On top of it, I'd choose Gymnemma (I'd have to read more before I was sure though), but I did see a little on bitter melon and it might be helpful. Cinnamon is supposed to be decent but no where near as powerful.

I'd just grab some straight up Berberine at 500mg a serving for like 20 bucks a month, and if you want to add some cinnamon or bitter melon or something at clinical doses on top of it later, go for it. But I would try it on its own for at least a month first. Why take more of you don't need to?

And they say it could increase effectiveness of other blood glucose lowering substances/drugs more effective and cause you to go hypo. If I were to stack things on top of it, I'd take it slow and add one thing at a time on a month by month basis, and choose what you stack on informed personal descisions and not what an old prohormone company threw in a bucket.

Droid2017's picture

Ok - that's for your detailed analysis and feedback. Lets stick with Berberine alone in right doses. Thanks

DfromPhilly's picture

No problem. I'm not saying it wouldn't be effective. It might be. I'd just be afraid it would not be what it says, plus might be overkill aside from the shorting of Berberine. Good luck boss

DfromPhilly's picture

Thanks brother. Glad you dug it.

Droid2017's picture

Awesome post ! I am definitely gonna be another Guinea Pig for this one.

Nattyboomba's picture

This is straight glorious. After this well written gem like this, I dug in a bit deeper myself and found there are even more fringe benefits than what's listed, no hidden unwanted sides I can find, and it's all natural? So I did the only thing one could..... Bought 200 grams and have been using it for 3 days now. As a long term HGH user, as well as someone with hyperglycemia buried deep in my genetic makeup this is perfect. Only issue is the short half life requiring dosing 3 times daily coupled with the foul bitterness of the powder making it rough on the pallet. I may capsule it all up. That being said, eating nasty shit is hardly the most strenuous part of this lifestyle

DfromPhilly's picture

Dude. I bought it already capped and even those taste gross when it hits your tongue. I could only imagine taking it in powder form. Please keep me posted with how it works out for you so I can create a final section with user feedback of real world results. You can update here or hit me with a PM.

Good luck and for the love of god, cap that powder up. There isn't enough peanut butter in the world for me to take that shit straight... lol

Nattyboomba's picture

Yeah man, that shits going straight into capsules today. Tastes like a dumpster fire.

I'm keeping a log, so when I see some results I'll get that info to you. I think this would be invaluable for so many of us if it proves to be as useful AND safe as it looks to be. Truth is, I'd never heard of berberine before you posted this up, and I don't think I'm in the minority. I'll hit you up with a FR, and I'll PM you my results down the line.

DfromPhilly's picture

Good shit. FR sent

DfromPhilly's picture

Thanks boss. And correct. No effect on natural test. In fact, in an animal study it actually raised it a hair (didn't find one on humans though). Also no effect on TSH (I should add that if I forgot it)

Edit: added to benefits of Berberine over metformin section

DfromPhilly's picture

Nice! Keep me posted on how it works out for you. I wanna add all the real life shit I can to this, regardless of the outcome.

kibby's picture

awsome write up mate +1

I agree with pale this should be a sticky ;)

Thanks for your hard work brother

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DfromPhilly's picture

Thanks buddy. As of right now I don't know that it's sticky material, just due to lack of interest. But if enough people think it's cool and we get some real world results out of it, than that would be awesome.

Either way, glad you dug it, if you try it out please let me know! I'm in week two of using it without AAS to possibly skew the results and I'm digging it so far. Nothing crazy but definitely promising.

kibby's picture

I've got some on the way so I'll definitely keep you posted bro ;)

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DfromPhilly's picture

Didn't see that anywhere while I was looking around. That's pimp.

waterhead235's picture

Thank you for all of the effort put into this post. I was thinking of trying metformin but this changes everything. +1

DfromPhilly's picture

Good shit brother. Keep me posted if you give it a go. Really wanna get some real results for our purposes. After this next bottle I'm gonna try other brands and see if I notice a difference too.

giardap's picture

Boring? I don't think so!! Really good read and we'll put together thanks. On the hypos... was there anything in the lit about the risks there?

Have you heard anything about grapeseed extract for the same reasons? I was about to buy a load of metformin but read a lot about gse and decided to go that route instead. Seems like berb is another really positive option which is great.

DfromPhilly's picture

Thanks bud. I have heard of gse but didn't find as much on it.

I read nothing about the risk of going hypo unless combined with other BG lowering drugs at 500mg 3x a day or less. What I felt was either very mild or in my head. Just tiny shakes in my hands.

giardap's picture

Yeahp well usually they hit pretty fast but if you get food in it can stop them going full blown. Horrible things

Ah I'd say if you felt something it was real enough
Eating helps stop em

XmadXscientist's picture

Very impressive work, love all the references and effort that must have went into this!

BigWA67's picture

Damn very informative read! like gettingbig said I get bored easily but not with this I couldn't quit reading to the end alot of good info +1

Jayzgainz's picture

Very interesting topic. ItTamazes me how much we can manipulate out bodies with food and natural products like berberine. Always learning something new here. Thank you for taking the time to research and write this up for us.

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Gettingbig's picture

Fuck sorry that was alot for Saturday morning coffee time but a great read interesting informative and damn you should write school text books because my attention span is zero and you had me interested and laughing.
Definitely a plus +1