Basic Test HGH Metabolism Question
Hey guys, first time on here, I'm taking 500mg test e weekly, 2mg CJC w/ DAC weekly. I plan to cut pretty aggressively and really take advantage of what HGH will do for fat loss. My diet for cutting will be 6 meals each with 50g protein, 50 grams sugar intra workout, and 50g carbs post workout. That's only about 1600 calories. With HGH fat glycogen will be used before muscle glycogen, so I should be close to 100% full the entire cut. This would put me on 3-4lbs of stored body fat lost per week. I'm worried about crashing my metabolism. Is the 100 carbs daily enough to keep T3 at a decent level over the course of 8 weeks or would it make more sense to run a reasonable dose of T4 at 100mcg a day to ensure the same 3-4lbs of fat loss per week. Also, if I'm coming off 4000 calories 300p 650c 20f and drop immediately to 1600 for a couple weeks and then add in T4 what would that do to my metabolism? Would the 100mcg of T4 which will be converted into roughly 25mcg of T3 bring my metabolism back to 4000 calories or will it have to do with LBM and how many calories I need to sustain my current size?
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You through around with technical terms and you clearly don't even understand what it really is what what mechanism those things create. There seems to be a lot of misinformation. Do yourself a favour and read into the guides on dieting we have on this board.
Further it seems that you have a screwed understanding on what certain compounds do. HGH is not a magical thing you take and suddenly, as you stated it, that the body priors fat over muscle. Simply NOT true. Even one of the strongest compounds "Tren" can't give you this desired effect and if you go too low with your calories, there'll be muscle waste, no matter what you take.
DonjoegainsFrom my understanding of HGH I strongly disagree with you saying that HGH does not prime the body to burn fat over muscle, just from numerous articles I've read. I have not been on HGH yet though and could be wrong. IFG-1 prevents cells from receiving glucose, energy put in the body would be used followed by stored body fat when there is no food in the body. It's kind of like putting your body into auto keto except you can maintain full muscle glycogen the entire way through assuming you carb up enough around your workout. Again I'm not here to argue only talk about what I've read and what makes sense logically to me.
As for muscle wasting, I can see the reason to eat protein regularly for the nitrogen content, what I can't understand is why the body would use any muscle if it has a positive nitrogen balance and plenty of stored body fat to use for energy. That being said, I'm eating 300p 700c right now daily and leaning out a bit. I plan to drop calories to 2500 and do 350p 200c 30-40f (era's) while on HGH. I'll check the scale daily, pay attention to muscle fullness and see what happens after a week. Starting week 2 or 3 I plan to run 100mcg T4 to keep things smooth, I should get bloods but I don't have insurance and I feel very comfortable cycling T4 as I've done it fine with high amounts of T3. Anyway, the last bit of this cut I'll probably drop the 30 grams of EFA's, lower carbs and shorten my workouts to really push the last bit of fat off
I appreciate your time in responding, I'm always open to new ideas and what will and will not work
Ok, I already see that we need to get to it in a different manner.
I'd like you to really think about the following questions;
1. > IFG-1 prevents cells from receiving glucose, energy put in the body would be used followed by stored body fat when there is no food in the body. It's kind of like putting your body into auto keto except you can maintain full muscle glycogen the entire way through assuming you carb up enough around your workout.
Well, do you really think that you could only hit your daily protein needs with sparing your lbm at the same time? Maybe for a week or two, indeed, but with your theory you could run an approach like it for a couple of weeks without any lbm loss whatsoever.
Sorry do be a bummer, but even with the strongest compounds you'd lose lbm in such a great deficit.
Further I'd like to share an outtake of a studie on IGF-1 and protein sparing:
Feeding is a therapeutic cornerstone in attempts to counteract muscle wasting. Even when adequate amounts of energy are supplied, muscle catabolism continues, and although adequate feeding postpones depletion, 1 there is a strong need for more effective strategies to counteract protein catabolism.
Should speak for itself. If not, I gladly get deeper into detail
Right, so you're trying to tell me, that with your current stats you have a daily caloric intake of at least over 4200kcal per day and still leaning out?! Either your NEAT is super high or you really need to tell me your magic trick here, becaue you said it yourself, right now you take no compound with it. Pretty decent natural metabolism I'd say.
Ok, when you claim you lean out at 4200kcal per day, that means this isn't even your maintenance caloric intake. That means you plan on getting on a at least 2000kcal deficit per day. Right then, sounds like a good plan...I mean, not for me but okay,
What are you hoping to achieve with that approach? Do you even know how T4 works? 100mcg will most probably do shit for you.
And is "High amounts of T3" for you?
And please, feel free to share studies and references with us, backing your claims. I'd really like to see those.
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
DonjoegainsI really don't understand what you guys are saying
Sad but true. I just read his reply and honestly don't want to give it another shot...seems useless because he thinks he actually knows stuff..i'll leave him believing that
DonjoegainsThis is just everything I've read, I plan to cut on 3k calories for a week and see what happens. I would love for someone to be able to answer the questions I have, idk who else to ask these things
Beat your head against the wall some more.
https://www.eroids.com/forum/hgh-peptides/rhgh/hgh-glycogen-questions
You did it already. What kind of wall do you recommend? Bricks? Wood?
I found out cinder block leaves a nice rosey glow.
Never tried this kind yet. I'll immediately go and find one and smash it against it just a tad more than usual, just to be sure
DonjoegainsCan you help me structure my diet for this cut ?
Exactly. Makwa gave you a direction, people gave you answers already and I did two long posts, one two try showing you what's wrong and the second was to support the first one and encourage you to questioning the things you believe.
I just want to say one more thing. You think about stuff which only will make a marginal difference. Ie. Like people looking for supplements without evrn having their nutrition in check. Focus on the real important things which are basicly said nutrition, proper training and consistency. If you really have control over these, you can start alternating those, Ie. thinking about supps, compounds and all other small variants.
DonjoegainsAlright, my cut is going to look like this, 500mg test e, aromasin as needed, 2mg CJC DAC weekly, 350p 325c 35f EFA's. Thats only 3k calories, no cardio, and 60 mins of intense weights 3 days on 1 day off. On my off day I would drop macros to 350p 0c 35f. What do you think of this ?
What I think?
I think you actually read nothing someone in this thread has written and that you haven't looked on the links we gave you.
I'll try to make it as short as possible because I'm simply tired obviously talking to a wall.
1. No need for aas on a cut at least not unless you're near stage weight.
2. As makwa said, you must swim in money if you take HGH as a main cutting agent. Stop thinking those compounds will give you the results. No compound will boost your metabolism that much, unless we're talking about a certain compound, which I clearly avoid naming because I fear you'll even get the idea to take this certain compound
3. Read the basic information giving on this board. This should answer all your current basic questions and gives you a good guideline for setting up your dirt
4. Stop talking about compounds or mechanisms which you obviously don't have any idea off and stop reading into such complex mechanisms without having a decent knowledge about fundamental things.
DonjoegainsAlright, HGH will aid in the cut. The cut itself needs to be focussed around diet. What do you think of the setup I just replied with below
+2 for continuing to beat your head.
Someone needs to get him kind of in the right direction. Hurts but still necessary.
Thanks for sticking with me here makwa!
I already gave you a guideline to follow.
DonjoegainsI know, but I'm confused about dieting while on HGH, I don't see why I need to eat carbs if they cannot be stored, and the fact that the body will burn fat before carbs makes me think the diet should be structured differently? You recommended 3k calories to cut on
This is where you are all fkd up. HGH is not going to stop your body from storing all the carbs you eat and you are not going to burn fat before carbs. Essentially, the HGH will help you to maybe burn a little more fat. End of story. Expensive ass way to diet if you ask me. Diet just like you would without HGH with the caveat that you may have to increase total cals a bit if the HGH is speeding up your metabolism to much and you are burning up lbm. You don't diet any differently when you are on HGH. Monitor your cals and adjust up or down if needed to meet your fat loss goals.
DonjoegainsOkay, IGF-1 allows muscles to absorb glycogen but not fat stores, I understand this now. Second, that makes sense why I should diet the same. So, the plan is: 3kcal 325p 350c 30f EFA's. I have to hit single digit body fat within 10 weeks and then maintain a low 7%.
Meals
Protein: 75g meal 1, 50g meals 2-6
Carbs: 150g pre workout, 25 intra, 150g post workout
Fats: 30g EFA's meal 6
What do you think?
Whatever works best for you. The main thing is, that you find a dirt plan you could theoretically stick too 365 days a year (doesn't mean you should) but what's a diet good for when you fail at sticking with it.
So if the above setup works for you, I guess it's a good starting point and you can make adjustments on the road.
Further makwa and I just talked about it some weeks ago iii another thread. If you're not competing or making money with it, you have no business in going that low in bf%.
First off it's not maintainable, further it puts a high amount of stress upon you mentally as well as physically and most likely your performance will suffer. Everything in the 10-15% can already be pretty appealing visually, of course this will depend on different factors but I'd recommend on not focussing on a certain bf% but go with the mirror and what your performance in the gym tells you.
DonjoegainsI like that, now, I've been reading about what pre contest competitors take. They say that as long as protein is around 2g per lb of body weight the risk of muscle loss is pretty slim. They say that a good protocol to run would be 400mcg T4 and 150mcg T3. This would certainly increase fat loss on a 3k calorie diet right ?
What is current bodyfat at? Maintaining 7% is unrealistic.
DonjoegainsI'm currently at 15-18% body fat give or take. I need to maintain abs is what I meant to say
So you are looking to drop 8% BF in ten weeks. That is going to be tough to do without losing significant lean body mass, regardless of what you are taking. Any reason you only have 10 weeks?
DonjoegainsGive or take yes. I need to have abs out and tight. I'm moving and want my first impression to be that. I've been reading what competitors take pre contest. They are recommending a protocol like 400mcg T4 and 150mcg T3 along with 2g of protein per lb in body weight. They say the risk of muscle loss is minimal with that much protein. Running this on 3k calories would surely speed up fat loss with some risk of muscle loss?
And this is the problem. You act as if you already know that much but statements like these just prove that you have no idea about the most fundamental parts.
Stop reading about complex stuff when you don't even have the basic knowledge. Because otherwise stuff like this happens. You only get confused because you can't tell what's true and what's not and further you'll find yourself in a pool of information without filtering the good from the bad info and the useful vs. rubbish
DonjoegainsI was just going to make a post on this. Okay so IGF-1 prevents glucose from being absorbed. Logically I would assume that carbs taken in pre workout are what the body will run off of, and if insufficient carbs are taken in, stored glycogen will be used because the heart rate is too high to oxidize fat. Now, since IGF-1 prevents glucose from being stored this would make me think that if you deplete muscle glycogen while on HGH you are most likely not going to replenish it until you are done with the cycle. Also, if that's the case, how do guys grow on HGH with insulin if the IGF-1 prevents cells from receiving glucose?
As for my diet approach, 2mg CJC is a 24 hour release of a steady 8iu roughly. I plan to to 350p 325c 30f. I will do 50 grams of protein every 2-4 hours. I'll take my 30f (EFA's) at night. I'll take 200 carbs 60-90 mins pre workout, 50 carbs intra and 75 carbs post. This should be plenty of energy to sustain a 60 minute workout. I'm not sure what the purpose of carbs post workout is because they aren not going to be taken in as muscle glycogen. My reasoning is to have some carb to stop any cortisol and re begin protein synthesis.
This to me means that over a 4 hour period I will have 100p 325c, so 1700 calories. The hour workout will burn nearly 1000 calories which leaves 700 calories to be burned off in the remaining 3 hour window. That leaves me with 20 hours left in the day at roughly 125 calories per hour based on my metabolic rate. So, the remaining food I will eat is 250p and 30f, so 1300 calories. 125 calories x 20 hours is 2500 calories - the 1300 I'll be eating equals a 1200 calorie deficit of what should be pure body fat per day.
So I should be losing about 2.5-3 pounds of stored body fat per week on 3000 calories. If I were to drop calories down to 2500 that would be 3.5-4lbs of body fat per week. 2000 calories would be 4.5-5 lbs of body fat per week and so on.
I've been on 125mcg of T3 daily at the highest. I went from 230-180 and lost a lot of my muscle in less then 5 weeks. I've read that HGH will lower T4 levels and its best to supplement with T4 be it will naturally convert about 25% into T3. So 100mcg of T4 would give me a normal 25mcg range of T3. I've read that people have taken something like 400mcg T4 and 250-300mcg of T3 while on growth to maximize fat loss but I'm not sure about that and have no one to ask
There's no muscle glycogen and fat glycogen, glycogen is only present in the muscles and liver. Fat is fat,
DonjoegainsTouche, glucose is stored into adipose tissue where the end result is fat. IGF-1 should prevent cells from receiving glucose, its time to shred finally lol
You have a strange way of cutting my friend. Sounds like you are expecting that HGH to perform some type of miracle. You are relying way to much on the drugs thinking they are going to solve everything. You are going to damage your metabolism pretty quickly going about things the way you are. Stick with the tried and true methods to loose fat. It is tried and true for a reason...it works. What you have planned their looks like a trainwreck.
https://www.eroids.com/forum/training-nutrition-diet/weight-loss/your-fi...
DonjoegainsThat's a good article, but the key to this cut is the use of HGH, it will alter the way the body uses energy, stored fat will always be first, muscle glycogen should be pretty safe except when lifting, if I was to do this without HGH I would lose all muscle glycogen and then muscle while losing fat lol
If my body needs 3k cal to survive daily and I continue to feed it 1500, maintain a positive nitrogen balance, and replace what little muscle glycogen I use daily, is there any reason I would not continue to lose 3lbs of fat per week
Ya you'll lose 3lbs a week but in a month or so you'll stall and plateau and where do you go from 1600 calories? 1200? Even at 1600 say goodbye to your muscle, st 1200 forget about it. Then you wan talk about adding t3 or t4, the most catabolic drugs on the planet. You'll lose 3-4lbs a week but it's gonna be mostly muscle. Even on a 3000 calorie diet I lost muscle on t3.
You have zero knowledge of why to use these drugs, you take t3 so you can continue to eat a comfortable amount of food and be in a caloric deficit, that's the point of it. So you maintain on 3000 cals and you're not starving all the time, then you add t3 and all of a sudden your BMR has raised and you're now losing weight on those same 3000 calories. And your not using hgh your using ghrps and ghrhs, there's a massive difference between real hgh and stuff like cjc and ghrp. No dose of those peptides will come close to producing the effects of even a low dose of hgh.
And another note you say without hgh you would lose muscle, hgh is not very muscle sparing, the test you're running will do much much more for holding muscle then those peptides.
DonjoegainsBam lol alright let me start with this. CJC has been proven to release at 2mg a week more HGH and on an hourly basis then 5iu of HGH. I will link the article I'm using for reference here, granted I'm not sure which brand of HGH they used in this study. So, elevated levels of IGF-1 for a 24 hour period means there will be no storing of glucose. Which means, I only need to consume carbs around my workout. The rest of the day will be 50 grams of protein every 2-4 hours to maintain a hopefully positive nitrogen balance. I'll add in 30g of EFA's. The diet would look like 350p 200c 30-40f for 2500 calories. I'm eating 300p 700c right now and leaning out a bit. Muscle wasting should not occur if the body has sufficient energy to maintain its muscle mass assuming the nitrogen balance is right. Now, carbs will be most important around my workout to ensure I use the carbs floating around versus stored muscle glycogen. I could even do 300p 250c to play it super safe, but I'm not that worried. Anyway, on 2500 calories I should be dropping close to lb a day of body fat I would think. A safe number is 3-5lbs of fat per week on 2500 calories. I would most likely add in T4 at 100mcg starting week 2 or 3 to ensure that I'm continuing to lose the same amount of fat on 2500 calories.
Question, when you say test is more muscle sparing, you mean that because it increases the amount of nitrogen in muscle tissue, which would be more important for muscle sparing characteristics of a drug versus the ability to shut out glucose from cells.
Thank you much for writing this, I learn a lot from you guys and it helps me logically lay out my cycle as I hear you say things
My head is fkn hurting from beating it against this wall
DonjoegainsThings are starting to click
This dude has such a screwed perspective of everything!
My head is fkn hurting from beating it against this wall
Hahaha!
Why jump into a huge calorie decrease? Even with drugs you're going to feel like shit. Plus your fat loss is likely to stall and where do you reduce calories when you're already at a super low 1600. I would reduce calories 100-200 per week and let cardio and your gear shine. You may not even need to go so low calorie.
DonjoegainsHGH will tap into fat stores before muscle glycogen, the larger the calorie deficit the more stored fat I could lose daily, at minimum my body will require 3000 calories to survive so even weeks in I should be losing a safe lbs of fat per week I'm thinking
Too big of a caloric deficit from the start. Gear & gh will bump your metabolism way up. I mean 3000 calories and you could possibly lean out and make gains. Ease in and listen to your body. Your plan is too aggressive. I would start no lower than 2500.
DonjoegainsWhen I read this comment last night a lot of things clicked. I think at 2500 calories or 3000 I should be seeing the same 3-5lbs of fat loss per week. Upping carbs to 300g around my workouts would surely allow me to grow while leaning out. Thank you very much for posting this, of everything said this is what clicked in my mind.
X2, if you maintain on 3000 and add hgh (he's not he's ghrhs and other peps) you will start losing fat on 3000 cals, like you stated I would drop to 2500 to start a 500ish caloric deficit. And when you stall you can go to 2300, or add some more cardio. But starting st 1600 is retarded. Seems like a crash get ripped quick diet.
This must be the New Years resolutioner crowd rolling in lol.
DonjoegainsI agree with everything you just said, I will be starting on 2500, maybe even upping to 3000 after a week or two, thank you again lol