+ 6 LGD and Ostarine (LGD-4033 and MK-2866) Clinical Research
After experimenting with both these compounds and researching them in depth before trying them I have developed what I believe to be an unbiased and informative opinion on these compounds. With that being said my education is in a physiological and biochemistry background so I do not take any compounds that affect the HPTA lightly. I'll start out with the research
LGD-4033: So far has been put through a phase 1 Clinical trial.
Sources:
http://www.ligand.com/upload/File/LGD4033_ICE_poster.pdf
http://www.pubfacts.com/detail/22459616/The-safety-pharmacokinetics-and-...
This source will cause your browser to download an official finding's document published by the company. It is the most informative source of the three.
http://www.google.com/url?q=http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External.File%3F...
Conclusion on LGD-4033
Though many people claim that SARMS are non-suppressive this is an extremely ignorant statement, especially with consideration to LGD. LGD is much more suppressive than Ostarine. According to the clinical trials "LGD-4033 administration was associated with dose-dependent suppression of total testosterone, sex hormone-binding globulin, high density lipoprotein cholesterol, and triglyceride levels. follicle-stimulating hormone and free testosterone showed significant suppression at 1.0-mg dose only"
With just 1mg/day of LGD-4033, FSH and TESTOSTERONE showed significant suppression!!! This means everyone in the bodybuilding community, including myself, who are experimenting with 5-10mg/day of this compound will undoubtedly experience suppression.
At 1mg/day, after 20 days, Total Testosterone was decreased by 200 ng/dL. This is at 1mg/day. So using 5 to 10 times this dose will most certainly have an affect on your testicles.
It is my recommendation that anyone who experiments with this compound should have a proper PCT set up before beginning.
Ostarine (MK-2866) Has gone through Phase 1, 2, and 3 clinical trials. Here are phase 3 results
Source:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3177038/
Conclusion:
On only 3mg/day of Ostarine, Free testosterone, Total Testosterone, and SHGB were all suppressed/decreased, with most significant decrease in SHGB. A decrease of 6.4 nmol/L was observed on free testosterone levels, again only at 3mg/day. This shows that the bodybuilding community, including myself, who are experimenting with upwards of 30+ mg/day will definitely experience suppression of natural testosterone production. Again, if using this compound all scientific research indicates it would be recommended to have a PCT ready before starting.
Now, this is not to say that SARMS are any more/less consequential on your health than Testosterone replacement, which has been vigorously researched. Much more research is needed to understand SARMS as well as we do AAS. One thing is for certain though, these compound should not be taken lightly and without proper precaution.
In my personal experience I have never run an AAS cycle, but know many people who have. Before starting my experience with LGD/Ostarine I had an entire PCT set up with SERMS and in worst case scenario I also had exemestane on hand for an AI. I was truly being cautious and many may say overly pre-cautious, but this is our HPTA we are experimenting on and should not be taken lightly.
LGD caused noticeable suppression for me at 10mg/day. I experienced testicular tightness and mild deflation accompanied by a decrease in Libido. I did not experience noticeable lethargy, but remember everyone reacts differently. I noticed LGD working around day 10, with increased muscle fullness and a skyrocket in appetite. After 6 weeks on this compound I found a very noticeable increase in muscle fullness and an overall increase in muscle mass. I personally did not notice any bloating or water retention.
At this point I am still on Ostarine, but I am starting week 7 of 30mg/day. Suppression is lighter than LGD, but is still there. With ostarine I have noticed an increase in vascularity and mild strength increases. Ostarine has added less size, but has made my muscles harder/more dense.
I hope this information helps anyone looking into SARMS. My parting message would be to do your research before experimenting with any compounds, AAS or SARMS, and take proper precautions. I'd rather be prepared than scrambling to find a solution to any possible issues that could occur.
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Bump
good info brotha +2
Nice write up. Scientifically ostarine will cause some suppression, but is it enough for a pct or does the HPTA bounces back on its on.
I agree and it's been documented and many threads written that LGD 4033 needs a pct.
I've personally experimented with ostarine 3 weeks into pct. One pct I used 15mg ed for six weeks and felt that I rebounded well and HPTA was restored once ostarine cycle ended. Next pct I used ostarine agiain without enough suppression to cause any affect on my pct and recovery.
I'm starting a log in the cycle forum and backed with bloodwork to see how SARMs affect PCT if you would like to follow it. I'm in pct now and will begin the Sarms in a week or so.
humpnpump, very great idea, this is what the community needs, bloodwork! I think you're definitely right about Ostarine, at a moderate dose a PCT isn't necessary and any suppression rebounds quickly. I wrote this from more of the perspective of an individual such as myself who is just about to turn the proper age to experiment with AAS (about to be 25) but wanted some sort of step before taking the plunge into pinning. I see on so many other forum boards people stating SARMS do not cause suppression, but this just isn't the case especially with LGD. I was hoping I'd be able to shed some light on the subject for those without much knowledge and express the idea that these products are not just some sort of "natural testosterone booster" or some other supplement that can be taken without any after thought.
True, not to be taken lightly at all. My thing is always come with some kind of HPTA support. Like for instance, after pct I still use natural supplements like DAA, tongkat ali, horny goat weed, neetle root extract etc... For the support that the HPTA needs. Doing so my pcts always are great, I actually look forward to them.
This is also very good advice. For individuals with their HPTA in natural equilibrium these supplements won't do much besides conflicting opinions about DAA, but when considering after any suppression for our own sake we should do all we can, which these supplements are very useful for helping the HPTA reestablish equilibrium if there's still any lingering suppression.
That is the misconception of natural supplements, they do a lot for someone that is suppressed and they do very little for the person in homeostasis.
For instance I just finished a 20 plus week cycle and didn't have to use hcg to keep my boys hanging low, what I found was if i used DAA 3 g for 2 days a week the atrophy went away and boys stayed plump. This isn't bro science it's real life experience. All those studies prove nothing cause they test them on men with natural stable hormone levels. See what I'm getting at!