+ 1 Expired Genotropin?
I just got my Genotropin but it looks like it was expired 12/2013. What do you guys think? Does the effectiveness drop off right after it expires? Any other risk of using expired HGH? If I would have known, I wouldn't have ordered it...
Also how good are Genotropins if left unrefrigerated? I'm having some doubts about how they were transported. My source said it came from Europe and it looks like it took about 2 weeks to get to him before he shipped it to me. If it was not refrigerated during that time or even before, would that make it go bad?
I'll be getting my blood test in 2 weeks, but just in general, should I be concerned about that in the future? I guess there's nothing I could do but ask the source ahead of time and either trust what they say or don't...
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SmartManYour opening statement is true but it's not Pfizer selling this expired product, it's a source on here that's going to have covered it's track very well and wouldn't be traceable to the average citizen therefore they needn't worry about any lawsuits, especially since we shouldn't be buying it from them in the first place as it's illegal for us to buy rHGH without a prescription.
Also your 2nd and 3rd paragraphs make no sense, it seems like you've changed your opinion either that or I don't fully understand what you're trying to say. In your previous replies you were arguing that this Genotropin will be fine, remember you used your elevator example.
I think you're forgetting it's not Pfizer who sold this to OP, it's a source on here!!
Ok then if it's not because of bacteria, then what is it? Why do Pfizer give these pens/cartridges a 3 year shelf life if they can survive 3+ months more than this and can spend 2 weeks in a hot van, plane and who the heck knows what else they've been in during shipment.
I think you need to be more clear with the points you're trying to make, it seems like you're trying to backtrack here and are avoiding what I'm saying and coming up with useless examples of no relevance.
Please, don't be offended by my replies, I've nothing against you, I like a good discussion anything rHGH related (like our discussion) but you appear to be offended.
The above quote of yours is the bulk of what I'm contesting. Your comment is that the product is worthless at 1095 days. And THEN it expires.
Toss your illegal purchase scenario aside -it's not relevant.
If true, It is Pfizer selling the product and they (theoretically) have very much to worry about if I'm paying for nearly worthless product that is 2 years 11 months old but has not expired yet.
The reason they give their product an expiration is because "In 1979 the government required all drug manufacturers to stamp an expiration date on their products. This is the date at which the manufacturer can still guarantee the full potency and safety of the drug."
http://www.health.harvard.edu/fhg/updates/update1103a.shtml
Often times when the shelf life of any product is nearing it's end it is given or sold off to 3rd party brokers who in turn sell it. I can easily imagine a lot that is 2 years old being sold off or donated to a 3rd world facility and then finding its way onto the black market. It does not mean that it was mishandled.
That being said, handling is your strongest argument. But you and I don't know with any certainty how it was handled so it's not even worth speculating about.
SmartManYou've twisted my wording. I said over the 3 years the potency slowly declines and by the end of the 3 years it's 'pretty much useless' which it is.
Also by 2 years and 11 months they expect you to have used the Genotropin.
Ok let me put this in a much better context for you, I'll give you some examples like you did before.
If a piece of bread exceeded it's best before date by 3 months, would you still butter it and eat it?
If an apple was left on the table for 3 months, would you pick it up and eat it after the 3 months?
My examples are like yours, laughable! Both my above examples and your examples are completely irrelevant to rHGH as it's completely different and both me and you can't understand how fragile rHGH really is.
Ok, let's take a look at your quote from that site you've found, let's ignore the fact that this site is advertising their book all over the site and let's pretend this site has some sort of validity and let's even pretend this quote applies to something as delicate and fragile as rHGH. So let's say your quote is true and at the 3 year mark this rHGH (this same rHGH which has been in transit for 2 weeks without any sort of temperature control and Genotropin's shelf life only applies if it's kept under constant refrigeration) is still 100% potent, what about the extra 3 months it's passed it's expiry date, should we call these months a slight issue or should we call them a King Kong sized issue?
I think at the end of the day if OP is happy wasting needles/syringes, space in the refrigerator, time and injection sites then he should take your advice and live in fantasy land and inject these cartridges. However, I think it's best that he takes my advice and tries to get a full refund and order from a more trusted source, one that will give him non expired products, that way neither me, you or OP will have to 'speculate', I think you and me can both agree that this is probably the best option for OP, can't we?
That would be in violation of the law.
BY LAW: The expiration date is the final day that the manufacturer guarantees the FULL potency and safety of a medication. At the end of 3 years the potency is guaranteed to be 100%. Not as you claim, pretty much useless
http://www.drugs.com/article/drug-expiration-dates.html
If Pfizer was smart, they would pick an expiration date well below the actual life expectancy to avoid litigation. Hence the elevator and milk parallels. it has nothing to do with the product. It has everything to do with best business practices.
Of course they do. But as you've stated repeatedly, it's pretty much useless by then. What you are saying is that Pfizer will charge full price until the product is 0% effective. And that they recommend using their product at the recommended dose even though it might be 20, 50, 80 or even 90% diminished. But being that they are a reputable company, they recommend you stop using it after 3 years when it is 0% effective.
And how can you explain away as fact this statement of yours below knowing it is violation of the law?
Not an issue at all. As we know, by LAW the product is guaranteed to be 100% at the end of 3 years.
Pfizer, exercising good business practices (like the elevator company) has built in a buffer when setting the expiration date.
Again, your shipping and handling concerns are all speculation and can not be argued.
I do not disagree that mishandling can and will degrade the product.
I have to agree with Greg here. These cartridges are all sealed, in plastic with a peel off backing and the boxes were also undamaged and sealed. Like I said, I've used expired meds with zero problems.
Also I went off the blood test of this exact product by the source.
I like your input and points Smart, very helpful and informative.
SmartManGreg - I don't want to clutter this thread up with our discussion anymore as it's probably not going to be much use to OP. I liked your arguments and you made really valid points, however I'd still advice OP against using this rHGH for all the reasons I stated above.
CP - If your bloods have come back good then there's hope. However, yours and OP's situation may not be the same. Did you order from the exact same source? Did yours get shipped with cool packs? How long was shipping? You don't have to answer those questions, I've only asked them to show how many variables there might be between yours and OP's rHGH.
Also I know how they're packaged, I've used them many of times myself. I'm glad that your bloods have come back good, but remember the potency may not be as much as it once was, therefore you could still be getting a lower IU per $ as apposed to buying Genotropin within the expiry date.
Thanks for your understanding of my points, it's a first that someone hasn't been offended by my posts, for some reason many users on here think I'm attacking them by having a different opinion to them, when really that is not my intention, I'm merely trying to help people.
Enjoy your Genotropin, I've ran them many of times and they are truly awesome!
Your problem is you think too much of yourself... Take your name for example.
Second, you opened by sounding authoritative and presented your opinion as fact. -not just here but on another post as well.
And to top it off, even when presented with the facts, you can not admit you were wrong, or even misspoke. instead you side step and reemphasized the obvious. We are buying on the black market. Of course there is going to be some handling concerns. We are all well aware of that. Short of getting a prescription, there is nothing that can be done.
SmartManJust as I was about to walk away from this discussion you come out with this...that's just plain rude and a childish comment!
Why would I admit I'm wrong when I'm right and you're wrong? You're also one to talk about presenting opinions as facts, throughout your whole responses to me you've done nothing but that! And to make things worse you got one of your quotes from a site that's only motive is to sell their damn book!
As for me thinking too much of myself...Wow that's just so ironic, Greg. The irony is almost laughable. Right from the moment when you responded to me in a rude and attacking manner, I said I've nothing against you and that I respect your opinions, I even apologized if I in some way offended you. And at the end of almost all my posts I said you had some good points (maybe I was just saying that so you didn't think I was being rude, but it's called manners, which is clearly something you don't have!). Finally to top it off, right as I was walking away from this discussion (which I thought was a polite civilized discussion, you come out with this nonsensical self righteous bullshit!). You obviously have a massive ego and always like to be the only person who is always right and you like to try and make it seem as if you've won, you can't seem to take part in a civilized discussion without letting your cocky ego get in the way.
Me thinking too much of myself? Says you with your 563 karma and your nonsensical controversial posts on many other threads where you clearly don't know what you're talking about but yet you let your status and half decent English language skills fool others and even yourself into thinking you're knowledgeable.
Screw my politeness and manners after this post, especially when I just complimented you and tried to walk away from this discussion in a polite and decent way after having enough of arguing with your bullshit opinion.
I sent you 2 links. The first to the Harvard school of medicine.
http://www.health.harvard.edu/fhg/updates/update1103a.shtml
When you balked at that, I sent you a second from Drugs.com
http://www.drugs.com/article/drug-expiration-dates.html
I can send you numerous more if you want. Fact is, you Lied when you made the following claim
You've had several opportunities to support the claim or recant it but have opted to stick by it.
Your word is suspect as are your stats.
SmartManHow did I lie? I contacted Pfizer and that's the response they gave me, believe it or not, that's your choice.
Also you can tell you're losing this argument (it was a discussion until you turned it into an argument, thanks to your ego) because you're viewing my profile and looking for anything 'suspect'. So tell me Greg, why are my stats 'suspect', is it because you can't understand Chinese? You've now made a complete fool of yourself because you didn't know my stats were in Chinese you thought it was some sort of illegal character, wow just wow, now is the time for you to gracefully back out of this conversation with what little dignity you have left.
I refuse to continue with this childish argument, it's getting to a personal level now, you started this argument and I'll walk away from it even if you try to post something that's going to set me off like before. You don't seem to be able to end a conversation without trying to prove that you're the only right person when you lost.
Stats
Age: forty
Height: six feet one
Weight: two hundred pounds
BF: eight percent
Your stats are suspect because I could read them.
I've been here for 3 years. I have posted hundreds of times. I have a track record that runs contrary to everything you are saying about me.
I have the same date expired Genos. 16iu pics are up. I don't know where yours came from and I looked at your stats, maybe same SRC, but.. I said before it depends on how they were stored. And as I described I've used expired meds before with no problems. I'm sure they lose some potency but not all and they are very recently expired.
I kind of wish the source had mentioned it but hey it's pharma, was quick t/a and he did bloods before I got them. They scored good.
But started them tonight and the first cartridge reconned clear and the inject was clean as can be. So we will see in time. Thanks for posting this, Thumbs up.
Oh and get some stats up please bro
Also the degradation is usually an over time process it won't go from 100% potency to 0% overnight those are pretty recently expired the only thing I'd say is if it was presented as new and not exp and it was exp I'd expect to pay a little less for the exp
Agreed.
Check the manu. Page for sure but I know the quickpens or w.e can go up to 3months unrefrigerated before they're mixed...some people say when it goes bad it won't mix clear any longer it'll be cloudy
Clear as glass after recon.