posted Wed, 04/17/2013 - 13:55
3638
Sick from prami or letro
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I am showing gyno symptoms so I was told on this forum to up my prami dosage to .5 and start letro. I am following this protocol for th letro http://www.steroidology.com/forum/anabolic-steroid-forum/584008-gyno-red...
On Monday I started the letro protocol tapering up, I also upped my prami to .5 from .25 the second day Tuesday I took my prami .5 and got really sick throwing up for a few hours. Hours after than If I moved I felt as if I was going to throw up again. So... I obviously need to keep taking both but why is this happening?? I did read that throwing up is a side effect of prami. But why only the second day? And what can I do to prevent getting sick, will my body get use to it over time? Thanks for your help!
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so here is pramipexole dosing with liquid prami, do each dose for 3-4 days, i do each for 3 days than go to the next dose up.
.0625ml = .125 mg
0.125ml = .25 mg
.1875ml = .375 mg
.25 ml = .50 mg
.3125ml = .625 mg
.375ml = .75mg
.4375ml = .0875mg
.50 ml = 1.0mg
doing a taper like this will avoid almost all prami sides. this is how i do it and i have never had sides this way. if i even jumped one dose i would be sick as hell. take your time.
you got to go up a little at a time on the prami, sides are fucking awful if you jump like that. taper up
I gave up on prami and caber. I am used to sides and can deal with most of them but my overall quality of life suffers way too much on those that for me it's just not worth it.
Decisions like these are def your prerogative. However, it is not a good idea to disregard what is causing these sides because you think you "can deal with them." We are tweaking our endocrine systems by supplementing hormones. In doing so, we create imbalances that our body tries to compensate for with other hormones. These fluctuations in other hormones is what causes these sides, and these elevations are not normal. Disregarding them sets yourself (or whoever) up for potential damage. Bad idea...
Wow! Another person that likes to bash without actually reading and understanding what I wrote. Exactly where did I say to DISREGARD sides? Read my post again.
I don't need to read it again. I understood exactly what you meant.
"I understood exactly what you meant" To understand EXACTLY what I meant would imply that you were somehow able to get inside my head. What you did was interpret what I SAID and what you understood from that is NOT what I meant and therefore I apologize for my miscommunication. That's my fault.
There are sides with any drugs. It's up to the individual to determine whether the sides are offset by the benefit. For me personally, I actually think my tolerance for sides is very low. For example, with Test I sometimes get PIP and slight test flu. I find those acceptable because of benefits such as increased feeling of well being and increase in lean tissue. But I do have friends that won't touch it because they will not tolerate the PIP. Again, different tolerance levels. However, for me again, some sides are just not acceptable. For example, on Caber I was so lethargic that it negatively affected my quality of life. Yes, I understand the benefits of Caber but I was not willing to accept and certainly never ignore the sides.
I would never, ever tell someone to ignore sides. I don't do it myself and never would. My whole point of taking gear is to feel good, look good and improve my quality of life.
Again, I apologize I wasn't clear in my original post.
the thing about it is that the cause of the unwanted sides associated wijth 19-nor's is elevating prolactin and progesterone. these are female hormones that should never become elevated in males. if they are allowed to linger in an elevated state for whatever period of time specific to the individual, female characteristics and sexual dysfunction can occur. this is not something that an AI can offset or correct. that is where our dopamine agonists, such as prami or caber, come into play.
most of the side effects caused by prami can be offset by a simple taper up with the dose. this gives the body a chance to adapt gradually. as for the lethargic feeling, that can be avoided by taking it before bed. actually, it's not avoided at all, but rather tolerated easier since you are going to sleep for the night.
in the end, the goal with cycles should be to elevated hormone levels and maintain with as much balance and stability as possible. different compounds require different approaches for this.
Excellent post and again sorry for the miscommunication. Thanks!!!
angusYou can decide to make poor choices for yourself and your body, but don't go promoting that shit around here. People come here for sound advice and the last thing they need is someone telling them to deal with it.
What are you talking about? Where exactly did I say to "deal with it". Read again what I wrote. I said the sides on prami and caber were NOT worth it for me so I don't use them. Read before you start going off on people.
Right here:
Okay. I can see how that can be misinterpreted. I should have elaborated. I apologize for the miscommunication. The sides I am referring to are in fact very mild such as PIP. I clarified my post above. Thanks for pointing this out. I would never recommend that someone simply accept sides as a fact.
+1 for having a good attitude and not getting defensive/aggressive
Thanks. Obviously my fault because I wasn't clear.
angusI agree. +1 from me too. Put you back to where you were. It takes a big man to admit they "miscommunicated".
Thanks. Appreciate it.
angusIt's the Prami, I promise. I'm not even gonna comment on how you don't know what is causing your gyno or how you're just throwing chemicals at it in hopes of fixing it. I'm just going to tell you that Prami will make you feel very sick to your stomach, make you puke, and make your appetite non-existent. You have to so very gently ease into prami that it's not funny. And your body may never tolerate it. You don't double your dosage of prami.....ever. You slowly increase it from .25 on the syringe to .35 the next day .5 3 days later. It should take you no sooner than 5 days to get to .5mg. Wouldn't it be a real bitch though if you went through all that effort just to find out that your prolactin was fine? Just saying you might want to read this
http://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/pct-anti-estrogens/labwork
Tell me why you obviously need to keep taking both? Gyno is caused by one or the other. what does your cycle look like?
good eye.. skimming thru on my phone and i completely missed that part... outside of the prami issues, letro is entirely too strong an AI to take, IMO, unless your bloodwork shows extremely high levels. i'll never understand why people won't make the small investment in checking their blood when there's an issue...
Well when I was researching prami much I a lot of people said to taper your way up to .5 I stayed at .25 for a while and yeah just went up to .5 like a idiot... A well known person on here that has a great reputation told me to up my prami to .5 and start letro. I waited a few days no one else posted I than took his word for it. I am not disappointed in his info at least I know the prami is legit and can now slowly taper up. Also going up to .5 what is it going to hurt? Isn't that the recommended dosage I keep your procalin down? And my cycle. I know dosages are high.. But I am getting the results I am looking for Gained 15 lbs lean muscle so far with little fat second month in. Cycle: 1,000 test 600 deca... Also I was taking 12.5 aromasin Ed before I got a tender lump in chest. I guess next time I will need to do 25mg a day. Thanks for your help
angus12.5mg of aromasin should be killing any estrogen that you have so your problem is most likely prolactin. The typical maintenance dosage for aromasin is 6.25mg/ed but it is so hard to control that most people will use Adex instead. Since you are at a gram of test then perhaps the 12.5 isn't so far off though. Hard to guess at it.
I'm not saying that the person who gave you the advice is wrong, but if you want to know what is causing it for sure than you need to spend the 90 bucks and have your estrogen and prolactin checked. I don't think your dosages are that high but perhaps for you they are. I have found that I get the best results with my test being 1/2 what my nor 19 is. So in your particular case I would be running deca at 600 and test at 300 but that is a whole different discussion. I guess the moral of the story is ease into your prami a little slower, if after a week you still can't tolerate the higher dosages then perhaps you will need to find some pharma caber. it is much easier on the system but harder to find good caber. Once you have your prolactin down then the maintenance dosage is .5mg/eod or .25mg/ed.
AnonTook soke prami today and i felt like shit all day. I think i uped my dose too fast. Hopefully i can eat tomorrow cause i felt like i was going to vomit all day.
I've used alot of prami
start off at .125mg a day then move up to .250, .350, .450, until you reach .5mg+
It makes me feel sick no matter what those first couple doses but im always fine afterwards
Ok thanks I am going to slowly taper up.
It's more than likely the prami from tapering up to fast remember .5 is Double the .25 dose. Your side effects should go away within a couple days of the same dosage.
i don't have experience with either. my estrogen has never gotta bad enough out of control to warrant letro - not being gyno prone helps as well. and never used prami. i am contemplating adding a small dose of NPP to my current cycle to help with a joint issue that's been causing problems in my everyday life. SO, i have been doing my research... in talking with folks, i've learned that true prami will make you feel like SHIT. dosing properly can help to offset or avoid some of these sides. tapering the dose up gradually makes a huge difference, so i've been told. (mwagner can give you more details there). also, since prami makes you lethargic, taking it at night is more ideal.
sorry my input is so limited, but hope it gives at least some insight...