Your opinions on a kickstart
Hey brothas, I'm gearing up (pun intended) for for my first pin cycle (4th overall). I am definitely going to be running 500mg test e for 12 weeks, pinning Tuesday and Friday for weeks 1-10 and starting pct 2 weeks after last pin. I will preload with cycle assist and have aromasin on hand in case of estro related sides. Pct will be clomid 50/50/25/25, aromasin 0/0/12.5/12.5, DAA 3/3/3/3. I'm 6'0, 180 lbs, 11% bf, ectomorph, lifting for 6 yrs but seriously for last 2 yrs. I take in 3500-4000 cals a day with macros sitting about 35% protein (~210g) 45% carbs (~270g) 20% fat (~120g). I would like to kickstart this cycle and I was thinking about using SD to do this. I'm familiar with SD and I've heard the test can help with the lethargy and back pumps (the main sides I experience on SD), is it true the test will negate these sides? The other option I was considering was to kickstart with test p for the first three weeks at 100mg eod. I'm leaning more to the test p now, as it seems to make more sense to me running only one compound for my first pin cycle, and just using different length esters to help get my blood levels up sooner. I already know there will be a lot of pinning, but this doesn't bother me. What are some experienced opinions on this? Also, will I be good only using the AI as needed? Or should I take 12.5 mg e3d? Thanks for opinions.
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Here's your cycle layout which you described;
wk 1-12: 500mg Test E (pin tue/fri)
wk 3-18: 6.25mg Aroamsin ED
wk 15-18: 20/20/10/10 Nolvadex
wk 15-18: 100/100/50/50 Clomid
No kickstarts (and especially no pro-hormones) for your first AAS cycle - you need to learn and understand how your body reacts to one compound at a time. For example if you ran a kickstart and test e for your first cycle and you had negative sides, you would have no idea which one caused it, therefore imo its best to add 1 compound at a time.
Test p is another option. It is the same compound as test e - both being forms of testosterone and they hold different ester lengths so they diffuse throughout the body at different rates. The cycle layout i would recommend with the use of a test p is as follows;
wk 1-12: 500mg Test E (pin tue/fri)
wk 13-15: 100mg/EOD Test p
wk 3-19: 6.25mg Aroamsin ED
wk 16-19: 20/20/10/10 Nolvadex
wk 16-19: 100/100/50/50 Clomid
The reason why the prop tapers at the end of your cycle is so that you'll be on your PCT 3 days after your last test p shot. With no test p taper you will have a 'crash' of 2 weeks following your last test e pin, and from my personal experience i have found the incorporation of prop towards the end of my cycles to be very beneficial with regard to my hormone levels.
Sd isnt a pro hormone brother its probably the strongest oral on the planet
thats widely available any way but i agree he needs to see how the test affects his system
Thanks a lot for all of your help. I'm actually starting day 8 of my cycle. Last night was my first alpha male workout, and might I say holy fuckin shit!!!!! I have taken pieces of the advice given here and incorporated them into my cycle. Here's what it looks like.
Week 1-10: Test E 250mg 2x per week
Week 1-3: Test P 100mg EOD
Week 10-12: Test P 100mg EOD
Week 2-16: Aromasin 12.5mg E3D (adjust as needed)
Week 6-16: HCG 250iu 2x per week
Week 13-16: Nolva 25/25/12.5/12.5
I dropped the SD and am going to taper at the end with P. There's a couple things I'd like opinions on. I'm considering adding Clomid along with the Nolva for PCT. Should I start the Test P taper the last week of Test E injections or wait til after I'm done with E? If you see any mistakes let me know. For the life of me I can't figure out why people say you're crossing over to the dark side when you start pinning. It should be called crossing over the ethereal plane and becoming a God! Thanks again brothers.
That's great. Make sure your diet and recovery are spot on, alike your training and then watch yourself grow!
Ok, so you're on day 8, which means that you've pinned ~4 times - how are you getting on with your site rotation?
Also, the cycle looks a little clumsy at the moment;
- Begin your prop taper on week 11: pinning prop when your test levels are already high from the test enanthate will ensure you hit the greatest peak before a rapid drop in test levels. This is dangerous since you've made your blood levels volatile, thus increasing the changes of sides. (Prop taper should be weeks 11-13).
- Stop the hCG in the same week in which you pin your last prop shot. Carrying the hCG through into PCT will increase the aromatisation activity levels, which is something you're trying to negate - counter productive imo. (hCG use should be weeks 6-13).
- If by 'SD' you mean SuperDrol, then i wouldn't even seriously consider running that in ANY cycle!!!
- Clomid is mandatory for PCT. Run it at 100/100/50/50. Clomid gets your testes working again:
How your testis make natural testosterone.
(REMEBRER TESTOSTERONE DOES TURN INTO ESTROGEN THAT’S WHY WE TAKE AI's)
Leyding cells(your testis)---->make Natural Test------>(some turns into estrogen)-------------->pituitary Gland(Makes LH)----LH goes to------>Leyding cells(testis)make Natural Test--------and the process starts again...
If you have too much estrogen well now there will be too much estrogen hitting pituitary so the pituitary cannot make LH—no LH than your Testis can’t make test..Which is what happens after Cycle.
How Clomid works during PCT when your Testis can’t do shit.
Leyding cells(your testis)---->make Natural Test(some turns into estrogen)---which isn’t happing cause they are shut down and LH is not hitting your testis----------->Clomid blocks estrogen from hitting the pituitary(now the pituitary can make LH)---->pituitary Gland(Makes LH)----LH goes to------>Leyding cells makes Natural Test(your testis start to come alive)--------and the process starts again the correct way..because Clomid it blocking estro and your testis are coming back online.
Also, this is a little pre-mature, since you've got another ~12 weeks left until you begin your PCT, but this is how i dose my AI/PCT compounds;
Here's when I dose;
-AI's > Aromasin: In the Morning
-PCT > Clomid: Throughout the day
-PCT > Nolva: At Night
Why:
Free testosterone has reached a peak in the late morning until around mid-day when the sun has risen, this is why you wake up with 'morning wood'); so to capitalise upon the daily peaks in your free testosterone, I dose my aromasin in the morning. This will prevent any peaks in my estrogen throughout the day (since its half life is ~27 hours) and it will also further increase the amount of free testosterone in my system, since aromasin removes the binded testosterone from your sex hormone binging globulin (SHBG).
I dose my clomid throughout the day, because clomid is highly surpressive, it gets me emotional if i take a high dose all at once. Also i want to keep my blood levels as stable as possible to prevent any further sides.
My nolvadex dose is taken before i go to bed at night, since this is when estrogen is peaked in the human body. Nolvadex is an anti-estrogen, so while im sleeping, the estrogen is under control, which also aids my testosterone peaks the next morning.
Hope this helps,
P.
Thanks for breaking that all down for me. I will definitely add clomid into PCT. My site rotation is good, I'm only using quads and glutes but that gives me 9 days in between using the same spot again. I'm very right hand dominate so my left glute is a little tough to get to. As far as the HCG, I know when I'm just running E I'm supposed to take HCG the day before I pin Test. When should I dose it when I'm in the Prop taper phase? I was only gonna run the SD since I had a full bottle left, but it looks like that's gonna be relegated to the cylinder file. I could never go back at this point.
hCG dosing is 500iu/wk, split into two subQ injections.
See: How To Reconstitute hCG Peptide (Step-by-step guide w/Pictures!)
Great how to. Karma for you (granted the karma is only in my head but you get the point). The one thing I'm still wondering is when should I inject the hcg when I'm running the test p taper. Should I do it the day before I pin P? Should I pin hcg the day of pinning P? I was told with longer esters that the hcg should be pinned the day before I pin Test E. I just don't know when to use hcg with a short ester.
You can run Test P to kick start but I wouldnt first cycle because stabbing yourself eod meanwhile also twice a week on top of that with virgin muscle would suck.
On days where you'll be using the longer ester, you'll be mixing the test p and the longer ester into the same syringe as opposed to pinning the prop and longer ester in 2 different shots.
2ml in a virgin muscle would also not be too fun.
I'd prefer to shoot 2ml into a v muscle as opposed to 2 separate shots where the compounds aren't diluted. Mixing the prop and enan into 1 syringe will dilute the mixture so when you pin there is less PIP.
Follow this procedure to minimilise PIP;
Pre-Injection Aids
~ Vial or Vials of AAS compound(s)
~ Syringe 3ml
~ Drawing Needle/Pin 21g
~ Injection Needle 25g (25g for delts and quads, 23g for glutes)
~ Alcohol Wipes
~ Sharps Container
Intra-Injection Aids
~ Warm water
~ Towel
~ Bowl
Injection Preparation
As I do with all of my injections, my first step is to always warm up the vials of AAS I will be using. To do this, I first ran the hot water tap until the heat is above room temperature and proceed to fill up a bowl with the hot water to approximately 3 centimeters in depth. The AAS vial will then placed in this bowl for 10 minutes.
Once the vials have warmed up, I then dry them with a towel (and flip of the cap if the vial is new/unused). Next, take an alcohol wipe (1 for each vial) and wipe the tops to remove and bacteria or any other dirt which can cause an infection. Then, remove the syringe and the 21g needle from their packaging and attach together (some screw together, others need to be pushed together). Then inject the amount of air into the syringe to equal the amount of liquid you will be withdrawing from the vial to make sure the pressure within the vial is safe (if you are drawing out 1ml of AAS from the vial, then inject 1ml into the vial - this will also make drawing the liquid AAS compound a lot easier). Place the cap on the 21g needle and un-package the 25g and attach to the syringe.
Post-Injection Aids
Shower - Once you have injected, take a shower and massage the area to disperse the liquid for faster absorbtion and minimal PIP.
Heat Pad - Apply a heat pad to disperse the liquid.
PCT should be as follows
Clomid 100/100/50/50
Nolve 20/20/10/10
Aromasin 12.5/12.5/6.25/6.25
Aromasin should also be run during cycle starting week 4 at 6.25ed adjusted as needed.
Leave the Superdrol alone test is more than enough.
Not that I'm proud of it, but it's not virgin muscle as I have a long history of IV and IM needle use. And checking with a calendar it only adds in 4 extra injects over those first three weeks, assuming I can mix prop and enant together. With the aromasin, I've heard a lot of people only using it in case of sides. I definitely don't want estrogen out of control but I'm a little leery about using a suicide AI on cycle. Would adex be a better choice? Should I also get some caber on hand? And you recommend the AI as soon as pct starts? Most cycles I've seen wait until atleast the start of the second week, if not the start of the third week. Could you plz explain why you use the AI from the beginning of pct. Thanks brah.
Hey bro, I know this thread is 2 weeks old but I wanted to point out that I'm pretty sure "P" meant to tell you to run the Test P weeks 13-15 and not weeks 3-15. It's only used as a taper to finish your cycle that way you don't "crash". So, to answer your question about mixing the two Test compounds, the answer is no simply because you're not using the two compounds at the same time. Hope this clears things up for you.
Edited.
You've got a god eye. +1
If you want you can run adex on cycle up to you (it is personal preference). The aromasin and nolva have a synergistic effect thus the using it throughout pct. Caber is for prolactin issues which are not a problem with test.