+ 9 Established test base before adding other compounds
Lately there's been alot of activity on the board regarding bunk or severely underdosed test. It got me thinking about the consequences this may have particularly for stacked cycles where compounds that shouldn't be used without a test base are involved - Deca for example. I know some will debate that Deca can be used standalone, however the broad consensus indicates otherwise. That being said, going forward in this line of thought that certain compounds must be ran with a test base and not debating them as standalone compounds, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be prudent, especially when trying a new source/brand, to first use the test by itself and have blood tests done prior to adding other compounds. Obviously this changes the cycle layout somewhat - for example if someone was planning on running a 12 week cycle of test e/npp, the test would need to be run for 4 weeks, bloods pulled to confirm sufficiently dosed, and if so the npp added at that point, which would extend the total cycle to 16 weeks if the npp is to be ran for 12.
I'd say this is also a good reason not to mix and match gear, but stick with one trusted brand and batch per cycle to prevent a crash in test levels while running other secondary compounds.
What do you guys think, do you typically establish your test base before adding in the other compounds?
And note, the compounds I listed are hypothetical, this applies to any/all stacks where a test base is required.
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I think this is a great thread, +. Really good thinking with the view of achieving a much needed consistency.
I would say one thing, as an after thought though....; the amount of trusted brands I have experienced and read about, in the last 12 months in particular, that have been muck, is unbelievable. With UGL.... well... there is no guaranteed consistency across products or the brand. Ive also seen a few brands with batch # 0001... across all products for months on end, despite fixing certain issues.
just thoughts... ugl versus pharma, risk versus reward... and so forth!
That's what got me thinking about this, seeing trusted brands seemingly take a nosedive. A lot of veteran members had glowing reviews of a certain UGL brand so I was getting ready to do a bulk order and add to my stock of said brand when I saw some concerning things pop up. Needless to say I halted plans for the bulk order, no issue there, but I'm scratching my head at what I have on hand though my particular compound isn't spoken of badly - the problem is there are no lab results or nobody has pulled bloods yet on that batch. That isn't a huge problem for me since I'm just gonna run test this time, but it got me pondering the repercussions should I be planning an additional compound. Got some great insight by the vets here though to help combat that potential problem, so well worth the time to write the thread.
Appreciate it guys.
What would make you think it is just the test that is under dosed???
With UGL it can vary from one batch to the next, real pharma is bought at a pharmacy,......... with a prescription.
This is a hypothetical scenario based off all the "bunk test" threads and posts on SI's I've seen lately. Hypothetically if a person bought everything they needed for their planned stack cycle from a source and just say the deca is good but the test is bad. It could happen. So just saying to prevent accidentally running deca by itself, run the test long enough to make sure it's legit before adding in the other compound.
RustyhookerHint----a vet has at least 3 cycles in stash....just for mishaps. Including ai, caber, pct, hcg and bac water.
;)
applause as you say!!!
min 2xpct - combo of fear/sense driven lol
I never use more than one or two brands in one cycle, I also buy all at once before I start the cycle.
All compounds, PCT and AI + caber always at hand if needed.
Only thing I do is that I sometimes use a pre wo
like halo or suspension from another brand but this are products they cant crash my test level.
Basic products: Example Test/Deca from one brand, orals same or another brand, but only brands I trust.
In the past I often mixed and matched products/brands and had often bad issues or varying test levels. I'd never do this again!
Good post mate!
X2
RustyhookerBuy from sources with good reviews and hope that trend continues.
But starting test to later add a second imo....useless. Youre going to test bloods week 5 and adjust as necessary the ai anyways. Or then the suggestion is 5weeks of test, add deca and go 20 weeks.
Years ago 2 things happened here that changed everything for the good...
1--folks posted so many bloods that the proof was outstanding. On dose and source. Now we see what, 1 per week and then everyone acts surprised. Especially when warned.
2--bloods posted to help with ai and pct. It was the wild west at first with different ai/pct sources domestic and foreign that started great then slipped off and busted by so much proof in tests, there was no excuses.
Its always been members supposed to protect members. Now ya got no bloods to prove so that the fanboys play their games. Or if a long time members posts a warning, flamed. Lol!
1 rule has always been true. Get it while its hot. The rest is up to the young dudes to keep labs straight. Especially when folks post those anabolic test links. If theres money to make, guaranteed thing been hustled.
A very good post and one that brings about alot of quality discussion.
Speaking on the several points that you have made.
First, bloods anytime is always welcome in order to determine exact numbers. Replying on guesswork and dare I say it, Bro-Science is never going you lead you down the best path.
Second, always try to use reputable pharmacy products. And of course the same brands and dosage levels throughout.
If using an UGL it always is a crap shoot. So compound test kits ( especially for the females!!! ) and consistent blood testing is necessary.
Which is why forums and review sites such as these are an invaluable source for information gathering in order to find reputable products from respected providers.
And lastly , Deca standalone cycles ? After all, eating Tide-Pods was once a thing too.
I also wonder why guys use more than 1 brand while on cycle. How do they honestly know which one works the best.. or when they change brands mid cycle.
Those are the guys peaceing promo stuff together. I run one lab maybe two together. I’m funny about my provi.
I see your point some what. But at the same time a lot of times you’ll hear a source of switching the more expensive compounds to testosterone. So maybe you’re running two or three compounds from the same source but they’re all actually testosterone. It would still take you a while to notice because your strength and size and aggression will keep improving from the high dosage of test.
I think for the guys on trt they notice pretty quick if they get some bunk test. When you’ve been taking the same drug in the same dose for years you tend to notice if it changes. Not saying that’s an excuse to skip bloods for all the reasons below, but experienced users should also be able to compare previous runs and results and have a fairly good idea of wether their gear is legit.
Hi mate. I do agree with you. I am myself on TRT and would know if the testosterone I bought was bunk.
Like you said that is not an excuse to skip bloods.
Agree with you there. I only had bunk test once from a source and noticed real fast. Went from 200mg trt to 600mg cycle and crashed hard! New it was garbage real fast.
I do see where can be harder if you’re running multiple compounds. For example, when running dbol, Anadrol or Tren it would take a while to notice because You’re still making gains and feeling like a king.
That depends, if someone on legit trt is using ugl gear for his script then theres no true chance. I use my script for off cycle and so far on any cycle I never had to question the gear from any ugl except once. Even though I have been on trt for more then 5 years I can only tell when my E2 is high. I had some low dosed test once and I did not notice any difference. I had to tell my doc a whopper to get a blood drawn and when we looked at it my level was fkn 800 taking 600 a week. Trt users will only notice if the gear is olive oil, otherwise if its underdosed you would feel normal if it falls between normal levels. If an "experienced" user says they can tell the difference between low dosed gear and they are on a cycle of 5-600 a week I call bullshit. But if they are using a gram then yes, anyone should be able to figure it out because the E2 will be high as shit.
I guess it boils down to knowing the source you are getting your gear from and researching. Staying away from the drama and the pickle smoochers. Those usually are the ones that you will get burned. It has been shown time and time again here.
Understand. For me though, I'm going to continue to pin my trt gear/dose during cycle so I never have to worry about a total crash. Will mean adding my trt gear at 150mg to whatever brand I'm using in my cycle and mixing together, but I know my baseline. I did this when I ran my test p cycle, still pinned my cyp weekly.
I'd say if someone on TRT was going to not do that and only pin their "new" cycle gear better have some tried and true prop on hand in case of a crash.....
I think for the most part guys who have been cycling for years generally stick with a brand they know and trust when it comes to test, at least that's my case but I agree if trying out a new brand one should be cautious and get bloods done to see if the numbers come out right.
I agree. When I find one I like I usually stock up on the same batch.
X2
And I always hope quality is still the same but good labs keep their quality!
Agreed, I've got a good stock of test c that I've tested on, all same batch, that I'm 100% confident in.
You nailed it, when cycling you should use the same brand across the board, that way chances of getting bunk or underdosed gear you can point your finger.
That also leads to blood tests which more then 90% dont do. The gear could be perfectly dosed but since the user didnt do bloods he either dropped his estro to under 20 or never took and AI because he "knows his body" and his estro is sky high. Just because youre nipples arent itchy or you dont have lumps does not mean you are way over the estro line.
Same gear and bloodwork, 2 of the best ideas ever, otherwise play the guessing game at your healths expense.
Hi mate. You are right about this. Not everyone gets itchy nipples on sky high E2. It happened to me years ago when I first started TRT.
Blood tests are the real way to know if what testosterone your running is legit or not.
Totally agree. Bloods should be taken consistently!
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That's exactly my thought. Starting with test only to make sure, that your test isn't bunk. If it's surely gtg, then you can add your stackroid. Starting directly with your stack could be fatal imo! For example when you're running a deca cycle and your test is pure salad oil...
I was cruising anabolic lab website test results looking at a brand with recent bunk test reports and there was a test for another product that lab produces which was legit, a much more expensive compound. So the expensive compound is legit, that batch anyway, but cheap test is bunk? That's very concerning.
Yes, that's true. But sometimes its just a bad batch, sometimes they got bad raw powders or they're willfully selling bunk. Who knows exactly, which is fact? Imo best you can do, is mix and match. So take two labs which are actually on the top or you know guys personally, who are actually making good progresses with their gear and mix the compounds.
Either you pin your compounds rotational lab1, than next pin lab2 etc. Or you pin half the amount of lab1 with half the amount of lab2 together each time.
So you can partly make sure, that you're not pinning complete bunk in the case of one bad batch or something like this.
I know a few guys who are running their cycles this way and never had any issues.
The problem I see with the mixing/alternating approach is not getting the correct dosage. Say one is only 50% dosed, or worse, it'll throw off your intended dosage and how can you tell which one is bad?
That's right, bro. But maybe it's better than possibly wasting time with complete bunk...