posted Sun, 08/02/2015 - 18:58
1375
Bloodwork Advice
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Got some bloods done yesterday and estrogen is too high - outside reference range.
I've been using .25mg Arim.
Questions:
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If I take Nolva which binds to e2 receptors taking up their places - how will i know if it's worked? My e2 will still be high as Nolva doesn't change it.
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Should I up the Arim dose to .5mg eod?
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Probably hCG raising e2??? U say dropping bf% not a priority, but it could be contributing to ur high estrogen.
Cycle history...and what AAS are you on and how much, as stated below?
Have u ever used exemestane?
You may need proviron...
Pic to confirm 15% bf?
Firstly, fat loss is not a priority for me because I'm not a bodybuilder and not a competitive athlete in a weight division classes sport. I'm just a recreational lifter. I don't hit bit numbers. I concentrate on form and lift in the bodybuilding style of constant tension / no lock out. I progressed from back squat to front and I'be been doing a few easier oly variations. But they're not mass builders. So I don't really incorporate them in my training. I never thought I'd use AAS because I was happy with natural potential but as a late starter and after 5+ years, injuries and being late 30's I hit a plateau and need to build some mass for symmetry. I used to be a bad weightlifter before I was a good one - ie, upper body dominant. Getting there but legs stalled and knee injuries and back made it impossible. I had to work on my pelvic mobility to go deep on squat - stretch hip flexors. I had typical imbalances to correct - quad dominance and it took me a long time to build up posterior chain and learn to contract and activate it properly. I built up the muscle memory so when I broke my leg and lost a lot of mass I was able to gain it all back quickly but then no more. My natural potential leaves me with poor symmetry. That's why the AAS. I don't think anyone should use AAS before 30 and even then only after reaching natural potential or near to.
Okay, cycle history? For intents and purposes this is first cycle. It's too early to assess gains but when the drol kicked in with test on Friday I could tell from the pump that I could really breakthrough plateau quick and maybe a single good first cycle might be enough to keep me going naturally for a while - ie, I really don't want to use AAS unless I have to due to longterm endocrine disruption / testes shutdown etc.
Exemestane? Not even heard about it. I know a lot about weightlifting but only just recently began looking into AAS. I had no interest before and considered it not worth the risk. Things changed and I've made a calculated risk / reward decision.
Proviron? It's a little late as from my research I figured I could get by fine with Arim during cycle and Nolva on hand for any gyno flair up and use Nolva post cycle. I can get more ancillaries from domestic source within a few days but not sure what's available.
Basically, I don't have any gyno symptoms - my e2 is just a little high because I've been a little conservative on the Arim at .25mg eod with so much test aromatising. My test levels were through the roof. I'll post exact numbers tomorrow. 15% is a guess and I'm not sure why you'd need to confirm it but happy to upload a pic to show you where my physique is at. Keep in mind I'm a recreational lifter and my bulking and cutting phases are not harsh pre-completion / off season style stuff. With me I just decide to add caloric surplus for gains and maintenance to shed a little of the fat off my gains. That's how it used to be anyway. Gains are a lot slower coming these days.
Sorry for the long reply. I'm just trying to give some background. Essentially I'm an intermediate level lifter in terms of numbers but tend not to post numbers these days as I took plates off to concentrate on form and use pre-exhaustion techniques and so on - constant tension.
Okay, so u are on cycle. And its the first one. Did u get precycle bloodwork?
I think ur using too much hCG for.your estro to be out of range and on .25mg eod. Usual adex dose for a standard cycle is .25mg e3d. Your avg weekly dose, if i estimated correctly, is almost 700mg/wk, which is high for a first cycle, but not too high. Here you are taking .25mg eod, which should be plenty with the 700 per wk to keep estro in check around 30-40, although everyone is different. Thats why i say hCG conversion to estro has you higher than normal and out of range. What was the estro value on blood work?
Cortisol is high too although it was a random single reading. For hypercortisolism a number of cortisol level tests are done during day and night. It's something I'm looking into as high cortisol is bad news and mine always comes back high when I'm training.
Sorry, forgot specifics:
.25 Arim eod
175-200mg Test e eod
HCG 250iu eod
I have Nolva on hand because it's the best way to treat gyno quick if it flaors up. It has a specific affinity for e2 receptors in breast tissue.
I have no gyno symtoms but cycle only started 24 July so I'm guessing I probably will have gyno symptoms if I don't deal with the high e2 levels from bloodwork check last night. I was wondering if a typical Nolva gyno treatment might be the best way to deal with high e2 or if I should just up the Arim to .5mg eod. I'm thinking upping Arim might be better but not sure. Thanks
U need to admin a specific dose and continue that dose.
Nolva decreases IGF-1, so if ur on cycle u could cause tendonitis.
Consider AI ineffective...is it legit thru revirw of src?
You've been using .25m Adex at what interval?
every day, every other day, or every 3 days?
What compounds are you currently running?
About nolva, it used to be used as a form of e2 control back in the 70's and 80's. Now it's pretty much archaic.
I'll go into more details once we see what you're running.
I wonder if OP is on cycle, or TRT?
See earlier comments. TRT is 50mg - 159mg a week. I'm pinning 175mg - 200mg test e eod. The reason for slight variation is merely due to a shortage of 3ml barrels and having to use a larger barrel sometimes with less accurate increments. For all intents it was supposed to be 175mg eod but has crept up to 200mg eod. There's just too much aromatising going on for .25 Arim eod. I'm going to take .5mg Arim tonight. Read up on this and maybe source some domestic ancillaries if needed. I thought Arim was one of the best ways of controlling e2 during a cycle and so with Nolva on hand for emergency and PCT + plenty of HCG I figured the pantry was well stocked and I was good to go.
Yea i see your dosing and frequency...nolva is not the answer for high estro control on cycle.
hCG is optional, unless ur cycling a 19-nor. And, then its only administered at 500iu/wk the last.6-8.weeks of the cycle, stopping a week before PCT. Here, u have been using hCG 250iu eod for 10 days....that is 1000iu one week and 750iu the next, which is why i say ur e2 is elevated.
U can up ur dose of adex like u want. But, until.u understand why your estro is high your gonna be puttin higher.doses of arimidex in your body you dont need.
And, 15% bf can help contribute to high estro levels especially.if your diet and macros arent dialed.in correcty...
Forgot to mention: was doing drol 50mg a day for first week but dropped it. Drol levels peaked last Thursday / Friday and it's probably inconsequential to current high e2 - high e2 is from the test e aromatisation.
hCG converts to estro too...
HCG converts to estradiol too? Shit, now they tell me! I never heard that or considered it as a possibility as it's a Gonadoidal hormone not an anabolic steroid. Anyway, I've got to run but I'll check up on this stuff later tonight and get back to this. Not wanting to get gyno and no signs yet but getting e2 levels fixed quick is a must or gaibs will be minimised and side effects Maximised. I have a phobia of gyno but it seems I'm not overly prone to it. 15%bf is pretty high even for the end of a bulk but it's not a lot. A lot of powerliftters are fat as hell and they seem to manage huge AAS cycles. Anyway, gotta run.
Decrease or stop your hCG dose and pull bloods in 21-28 more days. Continue to monitor for signs & symptoms of high estro like acne on back and face and chest and edema in the ankles....research exemestane and proviron...u can cut your test dose back to the standard 500mg/wk in divided doses, too...maybe some other members will make suggestions...