E2 over doubled on my last dose increase. Looking for feedback
Good day gents.
So Im a 39 year old dad getting back to in shape, and started TRT through an online clinic. My primary is cool and on board. I order my own lab work and send it to both my PCP and my clinic.
I started late April at 120mg a week. My dosing schedule was Monday8am Thursday8pm. After first check in labs, I was around 560 or so at trough, and bumped up to 160mg per week.
All labs have looked good, PSA didn't budge, cholesterol got better, overall getting healthier as I'm losing weight.
Last full labs came back at high 600s total T and I asked my clinic to bump up to 200mg a week, and got me some prescription oxandrolone(which has been fire)
Anyways, the reason I'm looking to get advice from people with far more experience, is that I noticed slight water retention on every bump up, but this time it continued to go up, even with a calorie defecit and me clearly getting leaner. I'm still chubby 22 percent on a dexa right around the time I went up to 200mg.(Around 6 weeks ago)
So this all came to a head last week when I noticed my BP was a little high, and towards the end of the week, I noticed my calves looked like water balloons. I got a quick e2 test and it came back at 88! I wrote my clinic and they are sending .25mg arimidex with my refill this coming week. I immediately switched to an EOD dosing protocol and dropped 8lbs of water my first week.
Is that enough or will I have to back down my dose for now? I was feeling phenomenal up until 2 weeks ago. Should I take any of the AI? And how long should I wait to pull my e2 again?
Sorry if this was a ramble, I'm not very good with these things yet.
Thanks in advance
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88 e2 is nothing. Run it. A simple way to reduce e2 is daily dose your test. I pin m, w, f. But every day will level out your e2 if thats the goal.
Thank you, that's the plan and I'll test again in a few weeks
Total test???
It was 577 at 120mg a week, and 692 at 160mg a week. Wasn't gonna pull labs for 200mg a week for another couple weeks. I just pulled e2 and tagged on a cbc and cmp cuz they're basically free, cuz that likely seemed to be the cause of the water retention
Check out my post "6 month trt dosing experiment". I bet you can cut your dose nearly in half and still retain the test levels, while lowering e2, if you switch to daily injections. It sounds like a PITA, but it just becomes part of your daily morning routine.
Just checked it out. It's wild how people respond so differently. I'll give this a go, and run labs again in a few weeks.
Just one thing I want to point out is the hematocrit. After posting that thread, and discussing with my doctor, I don’t believe that the daily injections were the cause of the hematocrit spike. In case you are concerned with that part. Your HCT is in a good spot anyways.
I can reiterate this, my HCT always runs 46+, with or without gear and when I went from once weekly to daily injections nothing changed, if anything it’s actually trended down on 2x the test dose just adding consistent cardio and drinking a consistent amount of fluids.
My issue was an ill fitting cpap mask. The machine itself didnt pick up anything out the parameters, but sleep study showed I was having multiple events per hour even wearing it. Switched to the type that goes inside the nostrils and hct is under 50 again. Just so happened the timing of my hct spike was around the same time I went to daily injections, so that was the assumption. The joys of a 21" neck LOL
Do you preload a bunch of pins on a day where you have time? I'm thinking about it now. I don't mind, I mean, I'm pinning gh before bed everyday, a morning shot wouldn't be bad. The volume is so low anyways.
I didn’t, but if you’re crunched for time in the AM it wouldn’t hurt. But if you do, just make sure you store them standing needle side down, so the oil doesn’t dissolve the rubber stopper.
Thanks Coach!
Sorry, couldn't help myself.
I do appreciate the information
I prefer high estrogen. 88 is great to me. Works best with a flux capacitor.
If you have to take an AI, it’s no longer TRT. I would drop the dose and/or increase dosing frequency. You won’t lose any muscle dieting on 160mg/wk or even 120 mg/wk. You don’t have enough to need larger doses to hold on to it.
Now if you’re wanting to call this 200 mg bout a cycle, then fine. I’m good with that. But really you should lose more body fat before upping the dose. Then you won’t have the aromatization issue
You been a here decently long, you should know that people are all different. Some people need AI on trt and some don't. It's just how their bodies are. I take letrozole on trt. That's how much I aromitizer. It doesn't matter if I only take 100mg a week I still need a lot of a I.
Then that means 100mg is too much for your body. I will not budge from true REPLACEMENT therapy requiring AIs. By that logic boys hitting puberty should be on AIs. Saying everyone is different is coping for the fact you want to run more test than your body can naturally handle. Period
I wish
Lol okay. So having to take letrozole on trt when my labs are showing low test levels and high estrogen that means it too much. Sure
I’m sorry I didn’t realize natural males walked around popping AIs…but please do go on.
Well I don't like sharing this. I had hormonal problems and my body made more estrogen than testosterone I actually did have to take a I when I was natural when I was younger. But I don't like how I feel when my estrogen is high and test low and I'm not gay and I didn't want to be a drug addict my whole life so I started test but I have to take crazy a I to stay somewhat normal. Just know that some people's bodies don't work right. It's all good tho. It is what it is. I'm thankful I'm not paralyzed or disabled and have a family. Just gotta make the best of it.
Thank you for sharing and glad you've got it handled and are doing alright, my guy
Yeah man thanks. And some people based on their diets and lifestyle are exposed to huge amounts of xenoplastics, soys, and all the chemicals in food. And the widely used pesticide if you live in usa. Atrazine is a widely used pesticide, it's very toxic but the crazy part. When they exposed animals to it. It would turn the males into females. All these things screw up our endocrine system and a lot of the chemicals somehow end up being estrogenic. It's sad
Are you, sir, implying that "They're turning the fricken frogs gay!"
Sorry, that's all I can think about when I get into conversations about endocrine disruption.
99 percent sure that my aromitization is just cuz I've been fat most of my life, but I'm finally in a position to get down to single digit and see that my body will tolerate.
Appreciate your candidness.
They are trying to turn us all gay and soft so we just go with the flow and don't ask questions haha. Yeah it could be a few things, I hope you work it out quick and feel better.
Very valid point.
Thank you
And if you got any questions just message me. I don't mind helping people if they got questions and don't know who to ask and might not know.
Thank you. Moved to an EOD dosing schedule. How long should I wait to check my e2 again?
And yeah, getting lean is the current goal. And continuing to give the wife way better, more frequent loving --
This info isnt exactly accurate saying if you need an a I it's not trt. Some people make heavy estrogen. I'm one of them, just how my body is. Tons of people take a I with trt and have normal test levels. Take some adex and get retested in a little while. And also your free test affects how you feel also. If your shbg is too high you can take some proviron to free up some free test. But the oxandrolone will lower the shbg also. Any anabolic compound lowers shbg over time and some lower it more than others. Ask them to test your shbg and free test also if they didn't.
Thanks. I'm gonna try a more frequent schedule and retest in a few weeks. I'd prefer to save the AIs for when I'm testing out my first cycle. Still have a good amount of fat to lose before I get there.
Thank you
Hold up…you still get frequent loving after having kids?? Shit you should be the one giving me advice not the other way around.
But seriously I’ve seen on my own bloodwork E2 cut in half going from 2x/wk to ED dosing. It can be annoying sticking daily, but you can pin practically anywhere on your body with a 30g insulin syringe doing 0.1ml each shot. Preload them up once a week and just have a stash to grab and pin. 30 seconds of your morning routine and you’re good to go.
Ha. Yeah. Since the son was born, the wife has lost 60lbs or so, Im about 15lbs shy of 100 down, started test and daily tadalafil. We probably bang more now at almost 40 then we have since our teens/early 20s.
The best part about losing 100lbs.. you get 3 inches more dick! Ha.
And preloading syringes doesn't mess with the rubber? I've always been worried about that. But if I could draw a bunch once a week, I have no problem pinning daily.
Thank you. I appreciate the insight.
Nah. Maybe if stored longer than a week. But you can pull a little air in there too so when they sit upright the oil doesn’t touch the rubber plunger part. If done that way, I’ve preloaded up to 10 since the easy touch slin pins come in packs of 10. Wouldn’t do this with things that have guaiacol or EO in them like inj orals, TNE, etc. But for your standard test cyp you’ll be fine
Nice. Thank you. Think I'll be doing that moving forward and pull e2 again in a couple weeks
I would go back to the dose that made you feel “phenomenal”.. that’s pretty much the point of TRT.
Sorry if that wasn't clear. It was the first 4-5 weeks at 200mg were phenomenal, until the water retention got me to realize I had a high e2.
Thank you