Why shouldnt fat people do steroids?
In a previous post by some guy with 25% body fat many people were telling him not to go on cycle. My question is why? As i understand it many if not all power lifters have a high body fat percentage yet they are all prime candidates for AS. Testosterone not only builds muscle but it helps burn abdominal fat from what i have read.
The only logical arguments i can think of are-
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High bf causes more testosterone to aromatize into estrogen. However if someone on cycle is taking a moderate dose of an AI this shouldn't be a problem at all.
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AS cause an increase in bad cholesterol, and fat people must have high cholesterol levels. This is also laughable. Someone with 25% bf could have lower cholesterol levels than someone with 7% bf if A. They are genetically predisposed to low cholesterol levels. or B. They have good cardiovascular health. or C. Mr. 7% is a smoker.
I honestly can not think of any other possible reason why a fat dude shouldn't go on cycle. In fact if a fat guy and skinny guy were both on the same diet, fitness regiment, supplements, and every other factor was equal as well. Wouldn't the fat guy have greater gains due to the fact that his muscles are getting more energy because he has more fat to burn while he is sleeping?
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When I came on this site in December I was 24% B/F and I did my research, ignored the haters that said its not for me and now my B/F is 15%. I really have a hard time saying this because the truth is I love this site and the wealth of knowledge its given me and still gives, but some people are just haters. Yes I am sure there real reasons to second think starting gear for health reasons but the explanations given to me where coming from arrogant pricks. My opinion is do your homework and read because that's where you will learn but don't expect to get much when asking questions because most of the time I feel there reply's are more geared towards there ego then actually helping you. Its just something I have felt and experienced.
Wow, considering the audience your speaking of I would say you have more reading to do. I think all of us here at eroids have put the boot to ass when needed, lit up the flame thrower when some 23yr old jerkoff wants to run the tren train, but to say were haters I think couldn't be further from the truth...Sure there are some comments made that are arrogant, hell I've made a couple that I regret, but the purpose and goal of this site is to provide helpful information on the SAFE administration of AAS and most of the info comes from either medical journals or the school of hard knocks,,, meaning we have learned from our own mistakes we made as dumb kids or even adults hot and horny to run something, anything we can get our hands on to gain some muscle. I have personally never met anyone on this site, but you what? I travel alot, and I'll bet if I walked into a gym I could pick them out by name and style, they would be the guys coaching, helping, mentoring the younger guys on how to lift to meet there goals. How to EAT RIGHT instead of stacking up some thrown together shit show of a cycle that has no synergy and can be just plain unsafe. If people are offended or putoff when they ask a simple question and get told your not ready for a run it's because if you can't take the time to read and educate yourself about a certain compound that you will be injecting deep into your body well then your just fucking lazy and are showing a lack of commitment. Do I think heavy people can run gear sure... Under certain circustances, how commited are they? What is there diet? is there any underlying medical conditions causing the lack of fat loss? Is there a thyroid problem? Have bloods been run? Should the person be on TRT? Does his HPTA just need some help to get the test back up-a simple blood test and some time with an endo can fix this most likely with a script of clomid. How is the blood pressure? What kind of supps will be used to offset the negative effect of steroid usage? There are a million reasons why really over weight people should not take steroids, the main one being is this person just being lazy? A calorie deficite burns fat 24 hours a day 7 days a week. it is very simple. 99.9999% of people on here are donating there time to help and educate people before they hurt themselves, it's called giving back to a community that we never had as youngsters in the game. Find me a guy at your gym, or on the street that will sit with you and spend 1-3 hours working out a specific diet plan to meet your fitness goals??? Still think we are haters? Egotystical? AND ONE OTHER THING- STATING THAT IM SURE THERE ARE REAL REASONS HEALTHWISE FOR NOT TAKING GEAR WITH NO EXPLANATION AS TO WHAT THOSE REASONS WOULD BE SHOWS YOUR OWN LACK OF KNOWLEDGE. Please keep your advice to yourself unless your going to back it up with medical knowledge or first hand experiance with before,and afters including cycle, compounds,diet,and final bloods after PCT. Because without that its all just bullshit! Sorry man but shouldn't speak badly of people who lend there time to help others.
I can understand how my post can get some people fired up being that there are so many people on this site that contribute there time to help others, and a lot of there time. I am speaking from my experience and how I felt, for everyone that stuck there hand out to help there was someone who just put me down. I understand criticism has to truthful and not about sugar coating things but I wasn't getting criticism. The TRUTH is that there are people that swing there wealth of knowledge around like its there 15inch dick and god forbid you say something wrong they crucify you and call you a dumb ass. I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE THAT FEELS THIS WAY. I really hate having this conversation because it does so much injustice for all the great people here and I sincerely mean that but I have felt it myself and seen it countless times where the reply's are not from a place of trying to help but rather from there over blown egos. There is a lot I would like to say but I don't want to rile anyone up and disrespect good members of our eroids community but overall my point is that when replying to someone check your motives on why your doing it, is it to help out or to stroke you massive cock of knowledge.
RustyhookerPretty harsh BS you got flying there. I can be fully a prick as anyone can tell you but i as well as the others bend over backwards to help unsatisfied lil farts. Don't bite the hand that feeds. Take in ALL given info and use the BEST route. Just like anyone researching.
To help people u must have the mindset of a servant. I have said and done some things here that I regret that were foolish, egotistical, irrelevant and downright stupid. And I think there are others here that could say the same thing. But to think someone is a "hater" is a big leap bro. I said that the people that do "pussy negs" are faggots and some gay guy labeled me as a "hater." I couldn't care less actually out here in cyberspace what anyone's sexual orientation is - give me a break. So you think there are people here that would call you names at 24% BF and hate you for it? It just doesn't even make any sense bro. Most of us here I think are quite genuine and really do want to help and give good advice from our own experience. I'm not sure of what other motivations there are really. I've said many time before, commenting here is like a ministry opportunity.
diet is key, gear just helps. go get bloods, youl be struggling worse than a 10 % er. dont say you did unless you post them up, then ill praise you.
Lower bf = more productive cycle and easier cutting later on. I feel like I'm finally in a good bf range with my last photos. I'm not ever letting it get higher then it 12%.... Slow cuts and gains are way better for health reasons anyways.
FlexNinjaWhen I got out of the Marines 8 years ago I was a lean 185 with a bf% @ 9. I started lighting the candle at both ends shortly after and let myself go physically. I let my weight get in the high 300's. Yeah no bull shit. Taco trucks pizza and a lot of cerveza. Spent a lot of time partying in Mexico. Three years ago I gave up the booze and got back on track with cardio everyday, strength training, flipping tires, and a super clean all organic diet. When I first thought about running a cycle my bf was 21%. I took the advice of a good friend that's a retired bodybuilder and got it down to 18%. He recommended 12% but I did it anyway and had good results. I did however get a physical and had blood work done prior to make sure my body could handle it. My bp was 122-70 and my cholesterol was low. My point is I didn't just jump in blind like an idiot. I trained hard and saw a doctor first. I respect the sauce and keep it at a level I can handle.
RustyhookerHigh five! You worked hard!
RustyhookerCycles are difficult if you're high bf% and don't know what you're in for.
Sbh elevated, easier estro conversion, bp the silent killer, strokes, heart risks.
bro honestly, if you are 25%bf you are a fat bastard, juice is not going to do shit for you, if your diet ain't right.. its obviously you have no self control at that point.. diet down, be consistent then think about AAS... if you can't even stay around 10-15% are you really SERIOUS about working out?
May as well leave this open... it is such a controversial topic it deserves a debate ........... i have my personal thoughts about this topic which i will keep to myself at this stage............ but yeah! discuss away guys.
Hey bro - 2,900 even. We got to do something when u hit 3,000. Won't be long now.
Shit yeah!... never even noticed that guys its something i dont look at much............... but yeah we must have a party, chicks , booze, fatty foods etc lmao!
Hows this for dedication... one of my guys is doing his first show on sunday so instead of leaving him to fuck up all the prep over the past weeks i said right you come and live with us for the carb load phase then i know its done fkn properly!............ so we have a house guest thats gonna get a fkn tan from suze tonight, another coat tomorrow, then a coat of dream tan and a can of hairspray applied sun morn before the show.............. thing is! this dude is getting more fkn hand on action from the missus than me!!........ lmfao!
the hair spray trick is a treat! nice shine, ive even started putting it on my dress shoes lol.........
Don't let the hammer get rusty on ya. Tell her it needs constant oiling lol.
He's changing his name to Mr. 3,000, or Viking 3,000
I wrote up a huge piece on this page; then realized that it could be a troll AND this post was from so long ago. Plus its information I really should not share either from my own experience.
Also, put your stats in your profile
this is a 3 year old post.
LOL I cant believe I only saw it after I posted; why are people bringing this shit back?
lol ashop always does it lol.
As long as the person health is ok I see no reason some people cant start
cycles at higher BF%. They tend to lose it quicker whilst on cycle due to increased
activity just from training alone and diet combined.
That is the magic answer; increasing metabolism and a training program will do the same thing that a cycle could do. So it's a 2 answer question. Smartest answer being to wait until you dropped a bunch of that pizza pounds before looking for a miracle.
You're in an awkward position as a source to take a position on this. Obviously. I agree with you and have personally seen some higher BF guys really benefit from anabolics and diet. I have never been in the camp that says a guy with 15-18% BF can't benefit from any steroids while training and dieting, that's not my experience but it certainly seems to be the collective belief of the AAS community at large, not only here at eroids. And, the reasons for that belief are sound indeed. I can't argue with the logic.
Boxjumpim at 22-24% bf im not fucking touching that shit till im under 18% its a fact that you are safer with a lower bf% not only that you paid your fucking dues.. a fat bitch like me hasn't earned the stripes to pin.
im a strong and fast mutha fucka too i feel like i could pin tomorrow but i listen to these crazy fucked up viking pin cushions on this forum to keep me right. can i get a HOORAAAH MUTHA FUCKAZ
FlexNinjaWow
Knock your lights outs. Your ignorance shows. But for the other 25% body fat guys let me break it down. 1. More fat more aromatize enzyme more estrogen. More sides more problems. As far as moderate amount AI. What is moderate? More is not better it's more stress and damage to the body. Can you take roids? Sure you can, but the
results won't be any faster than if you just went natural and got your diet and training in check. It would be less stressful on your body and health. I've also seen natural work quicker as far as dropping body fat. You also learn what works and what doesn't, training and diet wise for your body. When the day comes and you do add AAS you will have far better results and far less side effects.
Two guys all the same both 200lbs. One at 25% the other at 10%.His scenario both on the same diet, fitness regiment, supplements, and every other factor was equal as well. Let's break it down. The 25% guy has 50lbs of fat and 150lbs of muscle,bone,organs.The 10% guy has 20lbs of fat a 180lbs of muscle,bone,organs. We all know that the more muscle you have the more calories you burn at rest. On the same diet and training program geared for the 10% guy. The 10% guy will maintain are grow. The 25% guy will get fatter as his metabolic rate is lower. He will get fatter. It's simple science. You should go look at the pic section and you will see guys who think like you. Their before and after pics are telling.
And your last paragraph makes no sense. The 25% guy is fat because he takes in more calories than he burns. Sleeping with a low metabolic rate and on AAS will not change that. He will not burn any fat. He is not getting any more energy. Talk about magic and bro science. Look in the mirror. You have to drop calories and if you do that without increasing protein you will lose even more muscle not fat. Now that is scientific fact.
With your crazy theory all a person would have to do is take AAS and sleep. As we all know that doesn't work.
Fat people shouldn't do steroids because they have no motivation, no drive, just lazy individuals and will still look like shit at end of cycle
AnonVery true and no concept in Nutrition or dedication, but funny thing is some are still here doing it.
Think of your post as this: What is the reason that my friend can't use gear? He is 5"9' weighing 265 lbs, goes to the gym three times a week, and walks 10 minutes a day. He's perfectly healthy and has a normal BP with average cholesterol, non-drinker with average lipid profile, and does not smoke. He should be able to use gear right? He's been following the same exact routine for a year now! He's even lost 15 lbs!
Do you see how utterly STUPID that is? It's complete ignorance, and a veil over his eyes. Now I don't have ANY friends like this, because I refuse to accept "Not giving it your all," with anything.
Hell, my "friend" just recently started on 21g of whey protein that he just bought from Wal-mart also! He thinks it's doing magical things. In fact he stated he has lost another two pounds in roughly half of the tub already!
It's moronic thinking, that is why they should not take ANY sort of drug until they have a BASE. A BASE does not mean 3 hours a week in the gym, and walking 70 minutes a week. Oh and drinking a protein shake as your entire diet after a "work out," which involves machines on a 35 lb setting, at best.
Edit:
By the way, don't point fingers at illiteracy when your sentences are composed of equal magnitude.
Dude your a retard. Milk thistle, cranberry extract , saw palmetto, and beet root juice work pretty good. Beet root juice is the shit before a workout. Like a natural pre workout. If you haven't tried it don't knock it.
IMO milk thistle is a waste, because your liver has to break that down too, so it increases liver enzymes. It doesn't really protect your liver its an anti-inflammatory and antioxidant. It's more of something you would take with a premedical liver condition, liver cirrhosis and hepatitis. The only reason I would use it is for lowering cholesterol.
Definitely made the difference when I was on an oral.
Im hollerin TROLL to this whole line of bullshit.
ill tell you what bro. it doesnt sound like you know any powerlifters,i do..and that fuckin gut it may look fat but the guy i know i would bet you punch him in the gut its gonna feel like a rock.im not a pro but that whole fat guy would gain more is true in a sense he'd prolly gain more fat,alot i think has to do with your body type,for me a ecto i put lean gains and looked ripped the whole time,as for the same diet i need way more cals then the fat guy does to gain.youneed to listen to the guys below,cdaddy,hollywood.they know their shit
I'm going to break down your post by sentence:
"ill tell you what bro."
Already i know there will be no legit scientific or medical advice forthcoming.
"it doesnt sound like you know any powerlifters,i do..and that fuckin gut it may look fat but the guy i know i would bet you punch him in the gut its gonna feel like a rock."
Are you implying that power lifters eat rocks? Or concrete? Is this to manually adjust their center of gravity for improved balance? Please explain. O and coincidentally a few of the guys that train at my gym are power lifters, and yes we talk. You see they eat a lot to improve their strength gains more food = more energy. And they don't train for aesthetics so while they may have rock hard abs they have a layer of fat over them and quit a bit of intra-abdominal fat because men tend to accumulate fat in those areas. In fact due to the nature of the eating ant training regiment powerlifters tend to accumulate quite a bit of subcutaneous fat, kind of like sumo wrestlers. What sets them apart from fat slobs is that fat people who dont train accumulate fat everywhere including in between the muscle fibers and not just under the skin.
This next sentence has to be split in 2 parts for the sheer absurdity of the first part.
"im not a pro but that whole fat guy would gain more is true in a sense he'd prolly gain more fat"
For muscle to grow it requires energy that is why carbs and fats are important and not only protein. You cant eat right before bed and have your body digest the food throughout an entire 10 hour sleep cycle. But if you have excess fat your body can burn that fat to fuel your muscles while you are sleeping, which is why I think that if you have excess fat you can get some bigger gains on juice since your muscles are never starved of energy even if you're asleep and your stomach is empty.
"alot i think has to do with your body type,for me a ecto i put lean gains and looked ripped the whole time,as for the same diet i need way more cals then the fat guy does to gain."
I actually agree with this, good job.
"youneed to listen to the guys below,cdaddy,hollywood.they know their shit"
While Cdaddy is correct in the importance of monitoring your BP, in the essence of my original question it is not important because we are assuming that even though a person may have 25% BF they are in otherwise peak health. My question was simply why would those 30-40lbs of fat make someone illegible for a cycle? When in essence its like wearing a 40 lbs weight vest that feeds your muscles while you are asleep.
Hollywood on the other hand was pretty aggressive in his response, peddling folk remedies and unproven supplements, and accusing me of trying to justify a cycle to myself.
I am not a fat fucking slob, i am also not a bro science peddling meat head. I have worked out for years, I have run multiple cycles, I'm in very good shape, and i have no interest in being "ripped the whole time". I don't know how many times I need to repeat myself in this thread, I was simply curious because I felt that a lot of people were giving bad advice. Mainly "You have to lower your BF to 7% before you even think of running a cycle" when there's so many different circumstances where I don't believe that to be necessary. I'm fairly certain that even someone with 25% BF could do a cycle and get great results if they are ready for it, monitor their health, and plan accordingly.
Also I can tell that by your complete and utter lack of grammar and punctuation you probably wont understand any of is.
Since so many people in this forum are so well versed in medicine and chemistry I thought i might get some good answers, there were literally 2 constructive replies to this thread. I give up. Please keep telling me I'm a fat slob trying to justify a cycle because I think it is a magic pull and how I will break my hand on a power lifters rock filled stomach. Maybe I should eat some dandelions for their metabolic effects so i can "lose all this weight" I'm also surprised no one has called me a virgin or accused me of being 15 years old.
Look Chuckles, with a year + membership, no stats and ZERO particicpation on the board since you said "hi" until a month ago along with a STUPID stateement that implies that somehow fat guys are just as physically ready as skinny guys for AAS pretty much pegs you at best as a tourist and at worst a troll with a sleeper acct.
No stats is usually an indicator of someone that is too "something" to be delving into AAS just yet. MY guess would be that you're a kid. Your attitude and need to be right screams of petulent youth (yeah, we see it all the time here) Now I didn't "accuse" you of being fat initially cuz I don't know you and, of course, there are no stats. I only stated it sounds like a fat guy justifying a cycle due to the nature of the question and now with your defeniveness I'd have to venture that its probably not that far off the mark.
And I think in your introduction to the board:
pretty much says it all!
...and dandilion tea is very helpful in liver detoxification
so when you go to sleep for 10 hrs on a empty stomach,where are your organs going to get the protein they need to survive?maybe steal it from the muscle you been working for?not here to argue sounds like you know what ya what to do.
Mother fucker u come on here askin tor advice and knowledge and u discredit or talk shit or condradict every post on here...sounded like u must already know everything y even ask...u want a medical opinion go ask a trt doc or a hormone doc..better yet an endocrinologist don't pick ppl posts apart u asked they are answering!
cdaddy7For a correction to your reply, you always must consider bp whether u have issues or not....that is a dangerous, nonchalant attitude...I been around and had a few friends have some major bp issues with no past history bc of the gear and cycles chosen...I even have one that had a stroke and left him with permanent residual....research and know what the compounds do before just trying them in ur mouth and ass....u need to make sure that diet/nutrition and training has been exhausted and that u have weighed all pros and cons before u jump off into bigger and stronger cycles....I promise u that diet/nutrition is a huge key factor to ur success or failure to meet your goals
My roommate has a a pocket BP monitor that i have access to. I know my BP, i get blood work done yearly, and i like to stay on top of my health. The reason i made BP sound so nonchalant and a non issue is because my post was made due to curiosity. I'm really not trying to justify anything to myself here. All i wanted to know if you have 2 people in excellent health, all other variables being equal as well, and have access to AI. Is there a reason that Person B should not go on cycle if he has 30 more lbs of fat than person A does.
Estrogen loves fat. Any conversion will get in the fat and in turn that fat will be harder to lose.
Powerlifters spend decades buolding up their strength by taxing their body daily with lifts. Theyre not the newb msgic pill group. Magic pill folks wanna have a stroke....it's their choice but i wont give anyone an "ok pass". Im dictating they use some discipline. Not gonna watch em yoyo diet their way through a dangetous cycle
How about paying your dues, working hard and hitting your genetic potential to show that you have the dedication, discipline and maturity to handle dangerous compounds as opposed to using AAS as a quick fix or short cut or treating AAS as some suppliment from GNC? How about dialing in a diet so the body can be in its optimal condition to handle what AAS is about to put the body through? Testosterone will tax your entire endocrine system, effect your major organs as well weaken your immune system. An educated AAS user will utilize a dozen different supplements in an attempt to curtail most of these. Milk thistle for liver, cranberry extract for kidneys, saw palmetto for prostate, beet root for BP etc... YES a fat guy will tax himself and his body MORE on the same exact regiment as a skinny guy because chances are a fat guys system is already working harder than it needs to be just to keep the fat guys system up and running.
This sounds like a fat guy trying to justify a cycle without having to put in the work LOL!
Hboy
Can you recommend good manufacture of these supplements?
Like AS suppliers, you hear many stories of bunk supplements-
I'm 40 -TRT fresh start and need all help I can get-
"Milk thistle for liver, cranberry extract for kidneys, saw palmetto for prostate, beet root for BP"
If any of that shit worked doctors would prescribe it to people with relevant medical conditions.
If you have high blood pressure you get Beta blockers not beet roots. The only time a doctor tells u to drink cranberry juice is if you have a UTI. The rest is shit too.
I'm from the old school, the only supplements I use are protein and caffeine. The rest is clinically unproven money sinks in a non regulated industry.
As for justifying a cycle...not really, this is more about honest curiosity. I've been working out for years and have cycled in the past. While I am no fitness model I have put in the effort and am absolutely comfortable in my body. The one thing i cant stand more than anything else though is hearing bro science repeated to newbies and taken as fact. Hence my forum post, because it just seemed suspicious as shit.
I know many doctors that recommend those supplements. They just don't prescribe them because they do not require prescriptions. Saw palmetto, for example, is often a first line for mild BPH, and very frequently recommended by doctors.
Doctors prescribe DRUGS my man. THAT'S what they do! This country DOES NOT ALLOW any natural or hollistic remedies for treatments for anything cuz there is NO $$ in it
Todays herbal suppliments were yesterdays medical science!
... and I have plenty of "ol skool" brothers with bad kidneys, enlarged hearts and on permanent BP and prostate medications prescribed BY DOCTORS
They dont give that shit out bc beta blocker cost hundred dollars with no insurance and beer root and saw plametto cost 6 bucks at any grocery store