pZan's picture
pZan
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Started My First Cycle, Advice on supps/dosages/pct

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Hello guys I decided to start my first anabolic cycle.

Injecting 500mg of test-e per week, ( 2 shots monday/friday )
Planning on 8-10 weeks, maybe stretch to 11-12.

I have court in june and I have to be done by then!

Planning on starting PCT 2 weeks after last pin, and clomid at 40/40/40/40

Is that pct good enough, should I be taking support sups whilst on cycle? If so what?

Is 500mg enough per week?

Should I be eating like a pig? I'm also doing cardio 2-3 times a week for a half marathon

Any advice? Cheers

Ecto's picture

Maybe not as good as arimidex, because a-dex simply blocks estrogen production altogether, while clomid allows aromatization and then just blocks estrogen in the tissues in which it's desirable to block it, but clomid is still adequate. 10 years ago, when a-dex was still expensive as hell, people used clomid on cycle with good results. The only side really is estrogenic effect on mood - mood swings - but only some users experience that. I never have. It's also a myth that clomid (or nolva) on cycle diminish gains.

A-dex can be tricky because it's so damn potent. Take a bit too much, and your estro drops to an undetectable level, and you do need some estro to function properly, even sexually.

pZan's picture

I have some axed so I could take that? Would I be best just to take it when anything comes up? I have run 2 oral only cycles before (dumb I know) was only weak shitty pro hormones l....

Is it too late to front load too? Today is my second pin, would it benefit me if I take 500-1000mg today then carry on with my 500mg per week?

Cheers

Ecto's picture

It's not ideal but frontloading now would still be effective. If you pin 1000 mg today, your blood levels will be up in effective range much quicker and the test will kick in much sooner. It won't produce a higher level than you'd have throughout your cycle without frontloading, it'll just get you to the same level sooner, making the first couple weeks much more effective.

I don't know what axed is. 50 mg clomid a day or 0.25 mg arimidex ED or EOD throughout the cycle is all this cycle requires.

pZan's picture

Thanks a lot ecto, some great advice you have gave me, and has helped alot.

Okay so I've decided not to front load, I only have 10 weeks worth of test.

Ive got some dbol ordered and plan on taking 30-40mg ED for first 6 weeks... The only thing I'm concerned about is running armidex throughout the cycle, will it benefit me? Is it safer to use it then not? Will it effect gains?

Thank you.

Ecto's picture

There are two benefits from using ancillaries that either prevent estrogen formation from aromatiable AAS like test or dbol (arimidex) or block the estrogen from exerting its effect in some tissues (clomid) - 1) gyno prevention; 2) maintaining some degree of testicular function during the cycle, which prevents testicular atrophy (if the cycle is kept to a reasonable length, like 8-12 weeks) and thus makes it easier to restore the body'w own test production post-cycle and to keep your gains. Even if you knew for a fact that you don't get gyno easily, which you don't know, it's still a good idea to use one of these two. If you use clomid, then just continue it at 50 mg a day post-cycle for a month - you won't have to take a bigger dose the first day of your PCT because you'll already have it at the needed level in your system.

You don't have to do everything perfectly, and you won't in your first cycle. Just do the main things right - an effective dose of two synergistic AAS and, if they aromatise, which both do in this case, use some estro control. And a simple PCT. You could turn it into rocket science, but there's no need at our level.

Taking anti-estros throughout the cycle won't affect gains but will help keep them when the cycle is over.

pZan's picture

Okay great, well I haven't been taking any clomid yet although I have adex, clomid, nolva on hand.

Ok so it was my second pin today, dbol is on the way..starting tomorrow I'll be taking 0.5 adex ED, and of course my 500mg test-e per week along with 30mg dbol ED.

I have this in mind for pct.

Clomid 100 | 75 | 50 | 25mg ED
Nolva 40 | 30 | 20 | 10mg ED

How does that sound? Cheers mate

Ecto's picture

Since you have all these three estro control drugs, then sure, use adex on cycle and the other two for PCT. Half a milligram of adex ED is a real overkill, though, and is likely to lower your estrogen way too much, since your dose of aromatizable drugs is not very high. Go with 0.25 ED or even EOD. Adex is very very potent.

Post cycle, 50mg clomid plus 20 mg nolva per day for three weeks, except that on day 1 of your PCT, take 300mg of clomid and 120 mg of nolva in divided dosages throughout the day, to raise their blood levels into the effective range right away. You'll then maintain these levels with the daily 50 clomid and 20 nolva.

With this, you should have a great first cycle, effective and safe. Don't forget to lift weights like a madman. Good luck.

Ecto's picture

Since clomid has a longinsh halflife too, it's usually recommended to frontload it as well by taking 300 mg in divided doses on the first day. Then 50 mg per day. You can still do that. I would especially recommend that if frontloading your test, just to be on the safe side, since you don't now how succeptible you are to gyno, having not used before. But if you've been taking 50mg clomid for a few days already, its blood level has already built up, so there's no need to frontload the clomid.

Ecto's picture

I hope it was a figure of speech about a half marathon, cause running 13 miles 2-3 times a week when trying to bulk up would be really dumb. If you need cardio, do 30 min. steady state on a stationary bike, or brisk walking on a treadmill or outside, a few times a week. You won't be beating up your joints and causing catabolism.

pZan's picture

Thanks ecto, yes I've been thinking about cycle for a while, now considering my situation it' has to be the best time, no I am running for a charity to show that I have remorse, i was charged with fraud and money laundering btw.

Okay so when you say 1 clomid per day, I think my tabs are 25mg so just one of those? Every day?

I pinned my quad for first time Friday, day after I could hardly walk, it got better when I was moving more, I'm gona try my flute next.

Will cardio 20 minutes 3 times a week, really have a big effect on gains even if I eat big?

Thanks

Ecto's picture

With clomid, 0.5mg to 1 mg clomid per 1mg of dbol or test is enough for gyno protection. You'll be taking just over 100mg per day of aromatizing drugs (if you take dbol too), so go with 50 mg clomid (2 tabs) per day.

20 minutes of cardio 3 times a week should be OK.

Don't forget to split your dbol into several dosages throughout the day to maintain steady blood levels.

pZan's picture

Thanks mate.

I'm on 500mg of test-e only right now, second pin is tomorrow gona try my glute.

Will dbol make that much more diffrence to the cycle? I dot have any on hand but if it's going to be a big help I'll grab some.

I'm also a little worried about my test as its Veyron and whilst it's not bad repped I haven't heard many big gains from it.

Thanks

Ecto's picture

Dbol stacks very well with test, they work synergistically when combined - the effect is higher than the sum of the effects of each drug if taken on their own. This is the basis under stacking two or more drugs - you don't simply pile some different compounds randomly together just to get a bigger total dosage. You choose drugs that comlement each other. One must do what the other dosen't do very well. There are, with some degree of simplification, 2 classes of AAS. Class I drugs bind well to the androgen receptors that are present in every cell in the body, and that's how they exert their anabolic effects (e.g. tren, nandrolone, anavar). Class II drugs bind weaky to the AR or not at all and so must have other ways through which they work, most of which aren't yet clearly established (e.g. dbol, anadrol). Test is the only AAS, or one of the very few, that acts significantly via both mechanisms. For synergistic effect, you combine a class I and a class II drug (test can take the place of the class I drug to produce a very good stack because test binds very well to the AR). That's why test stacks so well with dbol - the addition of dbol (or anadrol) to even an already high dose of test still results in a lot of added effect. Or why deca (nandrolone) plus dbol is such a classic stack. And that's why stacking two drugs from the same class achieves nothing other than a bigger total dosage, generally. And that's why test combines so well with pretty much everything - because it covers both AR-mediated and non-AR-mediated mechanisms. It's also why test works so well when taken alone.

I can't say anything about the quality of Veyron's test - I have only used pharma-grade test.

Ecto's picture

Forgot to say that 500mg of test alone isn't usually considered a potent cycle. 500 mg test a week is really a good minimum dosage for a novice juicer. Add 30-50mg dbol a day, and it will make a nice difference.

Ecto's picture

Nothing wrong with adding 30mg of dbol a day for at least the first 6 weeks, and a lot of right. 500 test is a good dosage for a first cycle. Even better if you frontload it, so you don't have to wait until week 3 to see results from the test as the blood levels slowly reach effective range. Since you already have Clomid, taking one per day throughout the on weeks would take care of gyno protection and make PCT easier, too. Alternatively, arimidex 0.25 mg per day throughout the on weeks will do the same, with the clomid saved for PCT only. With test and dbol, you don't need any anciliaries other than the antiestros. Good luck with your court.

Ecto's picture

He's not just experimenting with gear by doing a cautios first cycle to see how his body reacts. He'll be doing this cycle to beef up for jail, which he kinda needs, being only 165lbs. If a few extra pounds from the dbol will help make his jail experience more enjoyable, there's nothing wrong with running it at such a moderate dosage for 6-8weeks. At 22, a man's body is fully formed. The usual argument against using at this age for someone without a lot of muscle mass is that he first should learn how to train correctly without gear. In his situation, though, I think he has more important concerns.

Dbol really isn't some poison that should be avoided if at all possible. It's a very effective drug with very mild, if any, side effects at this dosage. Especially when the user is young and healthy. His liver will be fine. A tylenol a day would be more stressful on it.

Ecto's picture

I think GH production doesn't halt until we're dead Smile But I'm sure you know that.

I've never heard about dbol damaging GH production in users younger than 25. But I'm not very knowledgeable about this. Could you elaborate? I'd appreciate that.

Ecto's picture

Gotcha, thanks.

pZan's picture

22 years old
165lbs ( roughly )
5,10.5" height
Bodyfat around 12%

Thanks; also I heard not to use clomid and nolva together for first pct, I have both so it's not a problem..... Any advice?

chaztheman's picture

What are the goals? I always throw in an oral like dbol with test e. And run nolvadex with clomid. Clomid alone isn't the best from what I have researched. Run test e for at least 12 weeks. And why u quitting for court. They don't test for roids. I take piss tests all the time for probation.

pZan's picture

Cause it's likely I'm gona get some jail time, so I wana make sure I can fit my PCT in before then.

dand06's picture

if it is his first cycle, then he should stick to just the test. see how his body reacts.

Trenabolic's picture

How old are you bro? ill tell you right of the bat your going to have to run your test for at least 10wks.

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