Danlaroy's picture
Danlaroy
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How much test needed to not lose muscle?

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People use steroids in a cut to keep their hard earned muscle and lose only fat. How much is really needed for this though? Is a cruise dose of 250mg sufficient for keeping all your muscle? Or would you still lose some. I've seen some crazy cutting cycles like test, anavar, tren and primo for example while cutting is all that really necessary just to shed some fat? What's the minimum needed that you'd feel confident you wouldn't lose muscle? Bh the way, I understand there's a lot of variables like bf%, how aggressive the cut is, genetics etc. I'm more looking for a ballpark idea for best strategies.

Makwa's picture

To not lose muscle you need to be more anabolic than catabolic. Doesn't take much test to put you in an anabolic state. Starting with high bodyfat you don't need any extra test at all to spare tissue since it is so easy to lose fat the fatter you are that you don't need to stress the body much with extreme dieting or excercise. Once the body gets down to a certain BF% it realizes it needs to keep that fat and you need to get more extreme and careful with your diet in order to trick it to lose the fat it wants to hang on to. For me that is about 12%. Even in that case if you are careful with diet and don't lose more than 1lb a week you will still keep your muscle while losing fat. There will come a point where you need to be even more extreme to keep losing fat and will be at risk of losing muscle while dieting further. That point is about 10% BF for me.

Even with extra anabolics you are still likely going burn up some muscle tissue. The goal is to minimize that though, but you can't eliminate it totally. You don't need 2g of AAS to cut to cut to respectable bodyfat levels. Getting sub 5% requires alot of anabolics though but most people never get below that level to warrant a ton of anabolics.

The other reason you see these crazy cutting stacks is because steroids are also a cosmetic drug. They impart hardness, graininess, vascularity, make the muscles swell due to glycogen loading etc. Different steroids will impart different looks once you reach a low enough bodyfat to notice it. I look totally different while prepping with DHB vs primo vs tren vs mast or a combination of those.

Most people would do just fine on a trt dose of test with a strong dht like mast or var while cutting to achieve that nice athletic look. Probably the best steroid out there for keeping you in a positive nitrogen balance (i.e. anabolic) is primo. I'll go out on a limb and say it the best at preserving muscle mass while dieting. Believe it or not but I have actually gained some muscle tissue while dieting with it which is very rare indeed.

Danlaroy's picture

That's all great info. I've wanted to try primo only haven't because it's a bit expensive but it seems like most people have good results assuming it's actually primo. Sounds like 10-12% body fat is the general point that is harder to hold on to muscle that's good to know of course it could be different for me but good to have a point of reference.

press1's picture

Any cycle that you come off such as one that contains 3 compounds, when you just run test by itself afterwards you will lose muscle. Sometimes it may take a little longer to lose it based upon what the cycle was that gained you the muscle in the first place but it will inevitably happen in time because the protein anabolism is just not there anymore. During the first week of coming off the cycle its often very easy to get excited that you haven't lost much mass or strength and you will be okay, but thats purely because compounds are still present in your system and are tapering off. Come the second week and so on though it becomes a different story.

Danlaroy's picture

Any tips for post cycle of keeping gains? Maybe like keeping calories high, or it's pretty much just inevitable you'll lose some?

Makwa's picture

You are going to lose a lot of weight when coming off cycle regardless of what you do since you will no longer have the glycogen loading effects that the steroids provide. What you should expect to lose is basically how much weight you gained in the first 4-6 wks of your cycle. If you gained 10lbs in that first month expect to lose at least 10 pounds when you go off, since that was just all glycogen retention from the steroids anyway. The weight you gain in the last half of your cycle you should be able to keep if you train right and eat enough to retain that extra mass.

Rustyhooker's picture

Read @Makwa forums. You wont need gear. Anaerobic cardio after gym session with clean diet. Save the gear etc for later when youre lean and decide to add mass

Danlaroy's picture

So just cut in between blast cycles? Cut during a cruise? Won't you lose some muscle when you get lean?

Makwa's picture

Shouldn't lose any muscle if you aren't on any type of crazy diet. Focus on losing about a pound a week which is only 500 cals below your TDEE and you really shouldn't need any excess anabolics. I always do a short 2-4 wk cut while off cycle before starting my next because it just primes the body for the upcoming cycle and helps to put on more muscle during the cycle.

Rustyhooker's picture

Meaning read his forums. 250 is a cycle...not a cruise...not trt.

Probably easier since question is so vague...whats your priors, stats etc. I usually tell folks read a few hours then co.me back and post findings

Danlaroy's picture

250 test e a week is what I'm prescribed from a trt clinic. That puts me at roughly 800 ng/dl which is the normal range and is not a cycle. At least not for me. But I know testosterone prevents muscle loss in a calorie deficit so I was wondering if it does that even at trt levels.

Rustyhooker's picture

If youre close to goals and bloods at 800....id pop in 6weeks of anavar at 50mg split. Have that diet 100% and keep it that simple. Var is super anabolic...hold muscle tight. Kills my appetite, lil heart burn but pumps and nice strength boost. Have taurine incase back pumps kick in.

And yes, at 800 normal range youre holding that mass. Youre 25yrs old for life.

Danlaroy's picture

Yeah I've been wanting to try anavar but I hear most of it from ugl's is fake. A lot of the time they give you dbol or winny instead. But I'll probably try that and test my luck.